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Old 07-06-2017, 09:33 PM   #61
Ram27
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I listen to live bootlegs way way more than the actual records. The energy, the extended outros, alternate versions, the sound and "production" are better to me than on any album (besides maybe parts of Siamese Dream. The Cherub Rock intro where you can hear the slight phaser on the guitar as the intro builds up)

 
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Old 07-06-2017, 09:36 PM   #62
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for a while i was trying to compile all of the songs from that particular session - which is obvious because in front of every song BC is like "oh yea its time to rawwwwwk" or whatever

great session.
fuck yeah


 
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Old 07-06-2017, 09:45 PM   #63
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no, fellow, i have got you:


 
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Old 07-07-2017, 05:11 AM   #64
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it's july now.

god bless the danes

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:07 AM   #65
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i think the production on MCIS is the worst of all of sp's albums, save for probably Machina (both produced by Flood - fuck that douche). though i do agree with elph that it does have a cohesive feel and an atmosphere that's memorable, there's no denying that.

i just don't think billiam is the kind of singer you could get away with recording so live and so dry. sorry but it just sounds like shit on a lot of the material. imo perhaps Butch Vig's greatest strength in producing the band was getting amazing vocal takes out of Billy, and giving him that lightly doubled/chorused sound that accented his boyishness and gave the whole band a breathy shoegaze-y dimension.

also, re: MCIS, it is glaringly obvious what songs the band spent a lot of time on, and what songs were hurried and rushed. about 50-50. half the songs sound great and half the songs sound like shit, and there are some duds on the record that just should have not been there, especially considering the amount of great shit the band had lying around at that time. songs like Love, Take Me Down (sorry Jeff), We Only Come Out At Night, Beautiful, Lily. they're endearing songs for sure, but come on man. the band had songs readily available that were so much stronger.

i dunno i'm really conflicted about that record. i love it and hate it at the same time. it's definitely the pumpkins' least cohesive and eloquent statement imo, even though it does have very formidable peaks. but it was always a record i go to in order to cherry pick a song i want to hear, and not one to play from start to finish (and not only because it's a double album).

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:15 AM   #66
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I wonder what you guys would think about the production on Vein.

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 12:30 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by cork_soaker View Post
no, fellow, i have got you:



This is just plain nuts.

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 12:32 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 View Post
i

it is glaringly obvious what songs the band spent a lot of time on, and what songs were hurried and rushed. about 50-50. half the songs sound great and half the songs sound like shit, and there are some duds on the record that just should have not been there, especially considering the amount of great shit the band had lying around at that time.

i dunno i'm really conflicted about that record. i love it and hate it at the same time. it's definitely the pumpkins' least cohesive and eloquent statement imo, even though it does have very formidable peaks. but it was always a record i go to in order to cherry pick a song i want to hear, and not one to play from start to finish
I feel the same way about Adore

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 01:01 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 View Post
i think the production on MCIS is the worst of all of sp's albums, save for probably Machina (both produced by Flood - fuck that douche). though i do agree with elph that it does have a cohesive feel and an atmosphere that's memorable, there's no denying that.

i just don't think billiam is the kind of singer you could get away with recording so live and so dry. sorry but it just sounds like shit on a lot of the material. imo perhaps Butch Vig's greatest strength in producing the band was getting amazing vocal takes out of Billy, and giving him that lightly doubled/chorused sound that accented his boyishness and gave the whole band a breathy shoegaze-y dimension.

also, re: MCIS, it is glaringly obvious what songs the band spent a lot of time on, and what songs were hurried and rushed. about 50-50. half the songs sound great and half the songs sound like shit, and there are some duds on the record that just should have not been there, especially considering the amount of great shit the band had lying around at that time. songs like Love, Take Me Down (sorry Jeff), We Only Come Out At Night, Beautiful, Lily. they're endearing songs for sure, but come on man. the band had songs readily available that were so much stronger.

i dunno i'm really conflicted about that record. i love it and hate it at the same time. it's definitely the pumpkins' least cohesive and eloquent statement imo, even though it does have very formidable peaks. but it was always a record i go to in order to cherry pick a song i want to hear, and not one to play from start to finish (and not only because it's a double album).
agree 1000%. I love the album but as always, a little more quality control could have made it so much better.

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 01:32 PM   #70
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I'm glad the "endearing" tracks are there they really make the album for me, give it that feeelll

Lily is one of my fav SP tracks

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 01:36 PM   #71
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Machine is the album that needed some quality control, should have machine 2 tracks on it etc

That's where I see the most missed potential on just making a really great album

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 02:00 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 View Post
i think the production on MCIS is the worst of all of sp's albums, save for probably Machina (both produced by Flood - fuck that douche). though i do agree with elph that it does have a cohesive feel and an atmosphere that's memorable, there's no denying that.

i just don't think billiam is the kind of singer you could get away with recording so live and so dry. sorry but it just sounds like shit on a lot of the material. imo perhaps Butch Vig's greatest strength in producing the band was getting amazing vocal takes out of Billy, and giving him that lightly doubled/chorused sound that accented his boyishness and gave the whole band a breathy shoegaze-y dimension.

also, re: MCIS, it is glaringly obvious what songs the band spent a lot of time on, and what songs were hurried and rushed. about 50-50. half the songs sound great and half the songs sound like shit, and there are some duds on the record that just should have not been there, especially considering the amount of great shit the band had lying around at that time. songs like Love, Take Me Down (sorry Jeff), We Only Come Out At Night, Beautiful, Lily. they're endearing songs for sure, but come on man. the band had songs readily available that were so much stronger.

i dunno i'm really conflicted about that record. i love it and hate it at the same time. it's definitely the pumpkins' least cohesive and eloquent statement imo, even though it does have very formidable peaks. but it was always a record i go to in order to cherry pick a song i want to hear, and not one to play from start to finish (and not only because it's a double album).
must spread rep. this is pretty accurate, except I like the endearing tracks. I wouldn't really trade anything off MCIS for anything else, but likely this is because of my emotional connection to the whole thing as a journey/theatrical experience/whatever. there are certainly tracks on TAFH which are much stronger than some of what made it onto MCIS.

I think Billy's vision for MCIS was really different than Siamese Dream. He wanted to make a more organic, live sounding record which also covered as much sonic territory as possible. There is definitely more diversity of sound than on SD, but it's not as cohesive. It's bolder, but it doesn't always succeed.

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 02:33 PM   #73
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they wanted MCIS to be their White Album, so they put very different styles of songs on purpose even though they had better ones at hand.
just to show how eclectic SP can be

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 02:43 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 View Post
i think the production on MCIS is the worst of all of sp's albums, save for probably Machina (both produced by Flood - fuck that douche). though i do agree with elph that it does have a cohesive feel and an atmosphere that's memorable, there's no denying that.

i just don't think billiam is the kind of singer you could get away with recording so live and so dry. sorry but it just sounds like shit on a lot of the material. imo perhaps Butch Vig's greatest strength in producing the band was getting amazing vocal takes out of Billy, and giving him that lightly doubled/chorused sound that accented his boyishness and gave the whole band a breathy shoegaze-y dimension.

also, re: MCIS, it is glaringly obvious what songs the band spent a lot of time on, and what songs were hurried and rushed. about 50-50. half the songs sound great and half the songs sound like shit, and there are some duds on the record that just should have not been there, especially considering the amount of great shit the band had lying around at that time. songs like Love, Take Me Down (sorry Jeff), We Only Come Out At Night, Beautiful, Lily. they're endearing songs for sure, but come on man. the band had songs readily available that were so much stronger.

i dunno i'm really conflicted about that record. i love it and hate it at the same time. it's definitely the pumpkins' least cohesive and eloquent statement imo, even though it does have very formidable peaks. but it was always a record i go to in order to cherry pick a song i want to hear, and not one to play from start to finish (and not only because it's a double album).
Could not disagree more on the production, sounds heavy and gorgeous. Think of how much more "alive" stuck like Fuck You, Ruby, and Bodies sound on MCIS then they would have on Siamese. I think it's pretty ignorant to say any of the songs are rushed or sound like shit. I think they sound like they are supposed to.

And Bill gives his best vocal performance, the vocal production is wonderful.

As I've said elsewhere, yeah some Aeroplane tracks would have been better than what's on MCIS, but it's still incredible. As Bread Regal said, let's just think of MCIS/Aeroplane as the greatest 4xLP of all time.

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 02:45 PM   #75
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DID YOU GUYS KNOW THAT SMASHING PUMPKINS ARE A DIVISIVE BAND

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 03:48 PM   #76
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The production on MCIS was chosen on a song-by-song basis. There are some live songs, some highly produced songs, some demo-ish songs. 'Tis how it's supposed to be.

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 05:24 PM   #77
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I wish they did Zeitgeist, Monuments, and Oceania without all the instruments and singing

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 05:24 PM   #78
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Oh and how could I forget Teargarten

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 05:35 PM   #79
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confused about what's going on here. i like the short sides and whispy pieces over the ear (classic bc), but the complete lack of bangs looks like something embarrassing happened in a private experimental session with the flowbee late one night in the purple mansion

clearly this is when he was initially toying with what to do re impeding baldhood. it's an odd and thankfully short-lived phase

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 06:21 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by slunken View Post
I feel the same way about Adore
Adores vastly overrated by the fan-base. The truth is it's a wildly inconsistent effort. It's got a few classics for sure, but it's a massive downgrade in quality from what came before. And a lot of those samples have aged as well as milk and sound downright embarrassing today.

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:11 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 View Post
i think the production on MCIS is the worst of all of sp's albums, save for probably Machina (both produced by Flood - fuck that douche). though i do agree with elph that it does have a cohesive feel and an atmosphere that's memorable, there's no denying that.

i just don't think billiam is the kind of singer you could get away with recording so live and so dry. sorry but it just sounds like shit on a lot of the material. imo perhaps Butch Vig's greatest strength in producing the band was getting amazing vocal takes out of Billy, and giving him that lightly doubled/chorused sound that accented his boyishness and gave the whole band a breathy shoegaze-y dimension.

also, re: MCIS, it is glaringly obvious what songs the band spent a lot of time on, and what songs were hurried and rushed. about 50-50. half the songs sound great and half the songs sound like shit, and there are some duds on the record that just should have not been there, especially considering the amount of great shit the band had lying around at that time. songs like Love, Take Me Down (sorry Jeff), We Only Come Out At Night, Beautiful, Lily. they're endearing songs for sure, but come on man. the band had songs readily available that were so much stronger.

i dunno i'm really conflicted about that record. i love it and hate it at the same time. it's definitely the pumpkins' least cohesive and eloquent statement imo, even though it does have very formidable peaks. but it was always a record i go to in order to cherry pick a song i want to hear, and not one to play from start to finish (and not only because it's a double album).
agree 101%

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:14 PM   #82
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One big advantage to MCIS's production over SD is that it works much better translated to a live setting. SD songs live tend to sound a bit mushy and empty compared to the album.

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:42 PM   #83
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I only wish MCIS didn't sound so muddy in the whip. That's my main gripe.

I also wish MTAE had better lead guitar parts. The songs are mostly good for what they are, just simple dumb songs, but they'd just be that much better with some lead parts that sounded even remotely inspired.

I wish the Oceania drums didn't sound like DOOF DOOF DUDOODLEUH DOOF DOOF.

Following up on the topic of the "endearing songs" of MCIS, lately I've just been loving the acoustic Adore demos of songs that didn't make the album. For the most part that set is a nice little continuation of that idea.

Last edited by ButtHash : 07-07-2017 at 09:06 PM.

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 09:21 PM   #84
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now this is just a disaster

while james, d'arcy, and jimmy have both feet in the spaceship, bill is clearly conflicted

the dye job on the neatly combed siamese haircut shows his hesitancy. thank god we can't see the full outfit

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 09:30 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by cork_soaker View Post


now this is just a disaster

while james, d'arcy, and jimmy have both feet in the spaceship, bill is clearly conflicted

the dye job on the neatly combed siamese haircut shows his hesitancy. thank god we can't see the full outfit
Yeah, shit. Even when Billy was writing brilliant music he was still easy to mock

 
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Old 07-07-2017, 09:35 PM   #86
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The awesome music made should excuse him from any of his off putting personality quirks though. It's hard to argue that the dude didn't go all in for the sake of the music. Those kind of artists are rare and hard to find. Most "artists" just copy the other artists who break ground. In a way Billy kind of had a Brian Wilson mindset.

 
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Old 07-08-2017, 01:25 AM   #87
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I only wish MCIS didn't sound so muddy in the whip. That's my main gripe.
yes this absolutely. I have to change my bass level when I listen to it in the car

 
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Old 07-08-2017, 09:47 AM   #88
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The awesome music made should excuse him from any of his off putting personality quirks though. It's hard to argue that the dude didn't go all in for the sake of the music. Those kind of artists are rare and hard to find. Most "artists" just copy the other artists who break ground. In a way Billy kind of had a Brian Wilson mindset.
HFBD!!!!!!!

 
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:56 PM   #89
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This is just plain nuts.

it's been forevers since coming upon something fresh to my ears from the hey-day...thanks slunk.

 
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Old 07-12-2017, 01:08 PM   #90
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I wish Zeitgeist ended after the initial drum part of Doomsday Clock.

 
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