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Old 06-25-2017, 07:48 PM   #61
The Omega Concern
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It was inconsequential to the sales of an album that didn't get released until 2 years later and it did nothing to help the sales of the solo album he released that day. How is that so difficult to understand?

 
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Old 06-25-2017, 07:52 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
Dude, my point is that it help his career, not specifically his solo album. He went from selling ~70K with TFE to 500K with Zeitgeist by announcing he was putting the Pumpkins back together.

Why is this so difficult to understand?
From this rationale, you could surmise Billy singing 'take me out to the ballgame' at a Cubs playoff game in '03 would have had an impact on sales as well. It didn't. The music still matters most.

 
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Old 06-25-2017, 07:55 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by The Omega Concern View Post
It was inconsequential to the sales of an album that didn't get released until 2 years later and it did nothing to help the sales of the solo album he released that day. How is that so difficult to understand?
It didn't perform any miracles for TFE, but the publicity surrounding its release increased its exposure, which in turn increased sales. Advertising 101 right there.

With that point made, the follow up point is...

By annoucning he was reforming SP, Billy increased sales of his next album, Zeitgeist, 10x over TFE by releasing it under the SP name.

I don't think anybody here would argue that all things being equal, that Zeitgeist would have sold anywhere near as well as it did had it been released under the Billy Corgan name.

Those are my points, and that's exactly what I've been saying over multiple posts now.

 
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Old 06-25-2017, 07:57 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by The Omega Concern View Post
From this rationale, you could surmise Billy singing 'take me out to the ballgame' at a Cubs playoff game in '03 would have had an impact on sales as well. It didn't.
Uh... no.

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The music still matters most.
I agree 100% with that.

 
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Old 06-25-2017, 08:09 PM   #65
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Billy is not the in the music industry any more.

 
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Old 06-25-2017, 08:10 PM   #66
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Everyone hates him and no company wants to release his records.

The music is shit and he is also shit.

 
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Old 06-25-2017, 08:13 PM   #67
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YOUR GONNA LISTEN NOW TO MEEEEEEEE

*sobs*

*sniffles*

 
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Old 06-25-2017, 09:17 PM   #68
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Quote:
ude, my point is that it help his career, not specifically his solo album. He went from selling ~70K with TFE to 500K with Zeitgeist by announcing he was putting the Pumpkins back together.

Why is this so difficult to understand?
OK, but you responded to a post that was sarcastically saying it helped his solo album by saying it did work. So when you follow that original statement with your statement, that might not have been what you meant but that is what you said

Also, he could have put out an ad about the reunion at any time between his solo album and Zeitgeist. Doing it on the day his album was released was not necessary. Announcing the reunion, per se, is not what caused the successful sales. Obviously there would be an announcement at some point, but that's not what caused the sales. Putting it out under the SP name is what caused the sales.

 
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Old 06-25-2017, 09:21 PM   #69
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So if your point is "reviving the SP name helped Zeitgeist sell" well no shit, think we all understood that 10 years ago

 
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Old 06-25-2017, 09:38 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by reprise85 View Post
OK, but you responded to a post that was sarcastically saying it helped his solo album by saying it did work. So when you follow that original statement with your statement, that might not have been what you meant but that is what you said
No, I've been very clear and consistent with my points. If you misunderstood anything that's not on me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reprise85 View Post
Also, he could have put out an ad about the reunion at any time between his solo album and Zeitgeist. Doing it on the day his album was released was not necessary. Announcing the reunion, per se, is not what caused the successful sales. Obviously there would be an announcement at some point, but that's not what caused the sales.
It was no coincidence that the ad announcing his intention to "revive and renew" the Smashing Pumpkins came out on the day that TFE came out. I never said, nor did I claim that the act of announcing the reunion is what caused successful sales. That was never my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reprise85 View Post
Putting it [Zeitgeist] out under the SP name is what caused the sales.
This is exactly what I stated with one of my points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reprise85 View Post
So if your point is "reviving the SP name helped Zeitgeist sell" well no shit, think we all understood that 10 years ago
One would be hard pressed to know that many posters understood that based on a lot of the replies in this thread.

 
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Old 06-25-2017, 09:41 PM   #71
reprise85
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Or maybe you are the one being confusing, if everyone else is confused at your point, when literally everyone understands why Billy brought back the SP name because it's obvious?

 
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Old 06-25-2017, 09:42 PM   #72
reprise85
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I mean someone basically said "lol i hope he doesn't put out another SP add over this solo album, that didn't help his solo album succeed last time" and you're like "oh yes it worked once" but you really meant "it worked to help zeitgeist succeed, that he brought the sp monkier back."

i mean what

 
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Old 06-25-2017, 09:45 PM   #73
reprise85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myosis View Post
would you bet that BC is stupid enough to try a second time to promote his solo album with a SP reunion announcement?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
It worked once didn't it...
I mean read it buddy

I don't know why this annoying me so much right now I just can't stand you doubling down on something this dumb

 
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Old 06-25-2017, 09:47 PM   #74
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Or maybe you are the one being confusing, if everyone else is confused at your point, when literally everyone understands why Billy brought back the SP name because it's obvious?
No, I've been pretty clear with my points, as broken down in post #63 of this thread:
http://forums.netphoria.org/showpost...8&postcount=63

And if it's so obvious why Billy brought back the SP name, then why is everyone confused as you put it?

 
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Old 06-25-2017, 09:48 PM   #75
Jelly Blossom
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Originally Posted by reprise85 View Post
I mean read it buddy

I don't know why this annoying me so much right now I just can't stand you doubling down on something this dumb
Again, I broke this down before... Idk why you're keeping at it either. I haven't contradicted myself at all, yet you seem determined to try to prove that I have.

I mean, did he, or did he not promote TFE with an SP reunion announcement? And didn't that reunion announcement come with a plug that he had a new solo LP coming out?

I suppose since TFE didn't sell a billion copies you want to say that I'm wrong here, but that doesn't mean he didn't promote the solo album with the reunion announcement.

 
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Old 06-25-2017, 10:01 PM   #76
reprise85
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Yes he did promote it, but you're saying it worked when it clearly overshadowed the record

regardless, that apparently wasn't even your point, as you just explained that your point was that changing the name back to SP is what helped zeitgeist. but now it is your point again? you just agreed that this was your point

Quote:
So if your point is "reviving the SP name helped Zeitgeist sell" well no shit, think we all understood that 10 years ago
I'm done dude. I'll try reading this again tomorrow and if this all somehow becomes clear to me I'll be sure to apologize

 
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Old 06-25-2017, 10:02 PM   #77
reprise85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
No, I've been pretty clear with my points, as broken down in post #63 of this thread:
http://forums.netphoria.org/showpost...8&postcount=63

And if it's so obvious why Billy brought back the SP name, then why is everyone confused as you put it?
Your post #63 is coherent. The reason people were confused is because of what you originally said, which is that it worked once to promote TFE, or that it worked to increase sales of Zeitgeist two years later which is what you seemed to have said when asked to explain yourself originally.

Regardless, the ad itself was a dumb idea and it completely overshadowed the solo record, and people are right to think it'd be stupid to do the same thing again

 
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Old 06-25-2017, 10:58 PM   #78
Jelly Blossom
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Originally Posted by reprise85 View Post
Your post #63 is coherent. The reason people were confused is because of what you originally said, which is that it worked once to promote TFE, or that it worked to increase sales of Zeitgeist two years later which is what you seemed to have said when asked to explain yourself originally.

Regardless, the ad itself was a dumb idea and it completely overshadowed the solo record, and people are right to think it'd be stupid to do the same thing again
The way I see it is that getting your band/album into a highly read and circulated newspaper such as the Chicago Tribune is a great vehicle for advertising. It was always very clear to me, even back in 2005 when this news broke that Corgan was using the Pumpkin name to sell TFE.

I honestly had no idea that TFE had even come out (or was coming out) until I read the news regarding the SP reformation (or whatever Corgan wanted to call it).

Now idk if you're a musician or if you've ever been in a band or not, but I'd wager that damn-near every musician/band would love to have had that kind of exposure in a major newspaper on the day of an album's release... especially in 2005 when record sales and newspaper circulation were far greater than they are today.

I'm surprised that this conversation has gotten as out of control as it has. I felt I made a simple comment and it's completely escalated (not hostile thankfully) beyond what I ever thought it would have. I honestly try to be very clear and I know that's not always easy on msgboards for a multitude of reasons.

 
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Old 06-26-2017, 12:01 AM   #79
reprise85
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Yes it was not clear, but I don't think anyone disagrees that Billy was intending to promote TFE and that he ultimately needed the SP name to sell records.

Anyway have a good night, it's a dumb argument since we do agree on these things

I am a musician btw but just for pleasure

 
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Old 06-26-2017, 05:53 AM   #80
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In my opinion, revealing he was reuniting the pumpkins while releasing a new album just didn't do him any favours. Suddenly everybody was talking about the reunion, speculating who was in the band and shouting for pumpkins songs at his solo gigs.

 
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Old 06-26-2017, 06:36 AM   #81
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people were shouting for sp songs at his solo gigs before he announced the reunion.

 
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Old 06-26-2017, 07:03 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream View Post
people were shouting for sp songs at his solo gigs before he announced the reunion.


...speaking of people shouting for SP songs >>>



 
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Old 06-26-2017, 08:27 AM   #83
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goddamn jelly blossom is annoying. in two sentences it can be explained why your response was not accurate.

 
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Old 06-26-2017, 08:49 AM   #84
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Guys. TFE sold less than 100k total albums or whatever. Who cares.

 
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Old 06-26-2017, 03:20 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reprise85 View Post
I am a musician btw but just for pleasure
lewd.

 
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Old 06-26-2017, 04:16 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciGarski View Post
goddamn jelly blossom is annoying. in two sentences it can be explained why your response was not accurate.

guy pretty much has no point except the overtly obvious "putting out an ad = marketing"

 
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Old 06-26-2017, 04:46 PM   #87
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this whole thread is so 2017 smashing pumpkins

 
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Old 06-26-2017, 07:33 PM   #88
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Fact is that SP's mid 90's work is still highly regarded and it's enough to always carry some financial/ touring success for the brand.

I listen to this Stingray app/ TV feature and they have different radio stations and there's one called "Indie Classics" that kicks ass. Pixies, Smiths, Radiohead, Talking Heads, Pavement, Magazine, Morissey ETC... All the critical darlings pretty much and songs from Siamese Dream and MCIS are regularly played.

I guess my point is that SP is never going to fully be "washed-up" in the sense that a band like Live or Everclear are because SP has a chunk of songs that will continuously stand the test of time.

 
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Old 06-26-2017, 08:08 PM   #89
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goddamn jelly blossom is annoying. in two sentences it can be explained why your response was not accurate.
Dude, is there any reason to attack me long after the fact?

If you have a problem with me then private msg me and we'll talk about in private. If you're too chicken shit to do that then do everybody a favor and shut the fuck up.

 
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Old 06-26-2017, 08:14 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by myosis View Post

guy pretty much has no point except the overtly obvious "putting out an ad = marketing"
And yet when I stated that people wanted to argue with me about it... and I'm considered annoying.

 
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