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Old 07-15-2017, 10:16 PM   #1
Ram27
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Default Heroin on the MCIS tour

I never knew the full timeline of this. thought it deserved its own thread

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Drummer Jimmy's drug habits seemed to diminish during the Mellon Collie recording sessions, regulating himself to his pack and a half of cigarettes a day. However, his drug use increased significantly during the tour and would later lead to his downfall.

The band continued to be under the false impression that Jimmy was using drugs sparingly. "We were being made to believe that we were being told the truth every step of the way. Which we later found out wasn't true at all." In the spring of the tour, the band actually offered to postpone dates so that Jimmy could seek treatment, but he insisted that he did not need it.
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The first of three drug abuses of Jimmy and Jonathan occured on the 29th of February at the band's show in Bangkok, Thailand. "Jonathan was fine, but Jimmy was definitely out of it," said Billy. Billy also warned Jonathan that if there was a second offense, he was to be fired. A second offense (and a fatal third offense for Jonathan) did occur three months later in May.
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Addicted to Noise reported that on the 19th of March, the Pumpkins had to postpone their New Zealand and Sydney shows because of the death of drummer Jimmy's father. The Australian and New Zealand dates are made up in May.
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The second of the three drug abuse incidents occurred on the 2nd of May in Lisbon, Portugal. Jimmy and Jonathan were both found unconscious outside a hotel, and rushed to the hospital for emergency treatment. "Adrenaline shots to the heart, the whole 'Pulp Fiction' bit," as Billy put it. After the show, Billy told Jonathan, "You're fired, but I want you to finish the tour because you're gonna leave us in the lurch."

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Touring keyboardist Jonathan Melvoin, 34, overdosed of a potent mixture of alcohol and heroin (specifically a substance known as Red Rum) in Manhattan's Regency Hotel with Jimmy. He called 911 late on the night of June 11th. The dispatchers advised Jimmy to put Melvoin's head in the shower and attempt to revive him. After paramedics arrived, Melvoin was pronounced dead at the scene of a heroin overdose with a self-administered syringe. Billy received a call from touring manager Tim "Gooch" Lougee at Manhattan's Four Seasons. Gooch said, "Jimmy's OD'd. Jonathan's dead. Cops are here." The other members of the band, D'Arcy, James, and Billy were all brought down to the 19th Precinct police station on East 67th Street for questioning, but later released that day on the 12th. Jimmy was also brought down and charged with criminal possession of a controlled substance. He was scheduled to appear for a hearing in court on August 13.
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Jimmy appeared at the Manhattan Criminal Court on the 13th of August, for an arraignment stemming from his arrest following on drug possession charges of Pumpkins touring keyboardist Jonathan Melvoin. Jimmy pleaded innocent to the charges. Jimmy was arrested and charged on July 12. Jimmy, 32, was in a drug rehabilitation program since the arrest, and according to his attorney Richard Schaeffer, he was "doing quite well" and "trying to get healthy."
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Jimmy pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct on the 8th of October when he appeared in court before Criminal Court Judge Donna Recant. If Jimmy successfully completes a rehabilitation program by December (and stays clean), his court records will be sealed. If he fails, he will serve fifteen days in jail.
Quote:
Jimmy completed drug rehabilitation, and began to concentrate playing with his new band, The Last Hard Men.
_________________________

such a mess. and it's annoying reading.

first and most shallowly, it destroyed the pumpkins.

second, a man is dead, partially due to corgan's mismanagement of this whole thing. they need actual help, not corgan telling them they're fired for trying to handle an addiction. Maybe cancel some shows, force them into rehab. Maybe get some test kits so they can verify the purity of the heroin and not overdose. Maybe stay out of their business entirely and hope they're not stupid enough to kill themselves. Maybe get someone from the Frogs to fill in on keyboards after the Lisbon incident and actually properly fire Jonny so Jimmy doesn't have his heroin buddy on tour.

third, it's shitty jim had to go through all that legal bullshit. drug addiction is a health issue not a criminal issue. (and the rehab didn't even work cause he was still on drugs through the machina tour lol) i mean his friend is dead and the first thing the authorities do is haul him to jail and charge him with a crime for "traces of the drug [that] were found in a needle in the room". who fucking cares about milligrams of a thing in a needle jesus christ. sorry, try to ignore my political lunacy

damn

Last edited by Ram27 : 07-15-2017 at 10:22 PM.

 
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Old 07-15-2017, 10:18 PM   #2
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I've done heroin.Snorted several times and shot twice.

I also sometimes wear black.

 
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Old 07-15-2017, 10:21 PM   #3
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Heroin blows btw

 
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Old 07-15-2017, 11:05 PM   #4
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nice synopsis

 
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:56 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
(and the rehab didn't even work cause he was still on drugs through the machina tour lol)
news to me

 
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Old 07-16-2017, 01:10 AM   #6
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billy looks like a cock here, sure. but i feel for him a lot. it costs a lot of money to postpone an entire leg of an 18-month-long, multinational arena tour. billy is the bandleader but when you're on tour you are beholden to a lot of people who are much more powerful. it sounds like they had a lot of serious sit-downs with jim to make sure the train wouldn't derail, and jim overestimated his ability to keep the monkey off his back during a marathon tour of 2+ hour sets every night under the demands of billy's cruel perfectionism.

being lied to by a junkie is a shitty feeling and i fully understand the resentful tone in all those post melvoin interviews.

 
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Old 07-16-2017, 01:15 AM   #7
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he couldn't even handle recording siamese dream without the occasional bender in athens, ga.

 
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Old 07-16-2017, 07:13 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
Maybe get someone from the Frogs to fill in on keyboards after the Lisbon incident and actually properly fire Jonny so Jimmy doesn't have his heroin buddy on tour.
You have no clue, have you? Do you really think someone would stop using drugs cause their drug buddies aren't around?

It'it wasn't Billy's fault. And I doubt we would risk his best friend's life for the tour. Jimmy and Melvouin were both grown men and assumed the risks. Both paid for it, Melvoin with his life. Sad, but true.

 
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Old 07-16-2017, 09:52 AM   #9
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Actually they were both grown-ass men.

And to think some think I don't know shit about nothing. Faugh!

 
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Old 07-16-2017, 10:52 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
such a mess. and it's annoying reading.

first and most shallowly, it destroyed the pumpkins.

second, a man is dead, partially due to corgan's mismanagement of this whole thing. they need actual help, not corgan telling them they're fired for trying to handle an addiction. Maybe cancel some shows, force them into rehab. Maybe get some test kits so they can verify the purity of the heroin and not overdose. Maybe stay out of their business entirely and hope they're not stupid enough to kill themselves. Maybe get someone from the Frogs to fill in on keyboards after the Lisbon incident and actually properly fire Jonny so Jimmy doesn't have his heroin buddy on tour.

third, it's shitty jim had to go through all that legal bullshit. drug addiction is a health issue not a criminal issue. (and the rehab didn't even work cause he was still on drugs through the machina tour lol) i mean his friend is dead and the first thing the authorities do is haul him to jail and charge him with a crime for "traces of the drug [that] were found in a needle in the room". who fucking cares about milligrams of a thing in a needle jesus christ. sorry, try to ignore my political lunacy

damn
Billy deserves a lot of blame for a lot of things, but not for this. I know you idolize Jimmy, but he was an addict. His behavior was his own doing.

 
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:04 PM   #11
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You're all making good points and yeah I was talking shit quite a lot there, it was like 3 am and I shouldn't post stupid threads

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criticising and blaming bill over twenty years later when he wasn't even there when they were doing the shit. you talking mess bud.
i mean obviously it wasn't billy's fault. i think it's just an interesting angle to look at (and sure i may be talking shit, that's fair) heroin addicts aren't really going to do anything sensible, maybe the sober bandleader could've

 
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:11 PM   #12
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being lied to by a junkie is a shitty feeling and i fully understand the resentful tone in all those post melvoin interviews.


ever happened to you, Ram?

 
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:48 PM   #13
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nah. i mean i wasn't even born when this shit happened. i don't pretend to be speaking authoritatively here

 
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Old 07-16-2017, 02:35 PM   #14
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ok but seriously i had no idea jimmy was on drugs again during the machina tour. where did you hear that from? very curious.

 
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Old 07-16-2017, 04:07 PM   #15
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i don't know either except that jimmy said he wasn't clean until a few years later

 
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Old 07-16-2017, 04:08 PM   #16
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that in itself doesn't mean he was on drugs during the tour, but i guess it's the most likely occasion for him to do it

Last edited by myosis : 07-16-2017 at 04:29 PM. Reason: typo

 
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Old 07-16-2017, 04:26 PM   #17
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Yeah that's what i figured. he's said in a few interviews he wasn't clean until 2003, and someone mentioned it on here as well. heroin seems to be his drug of choice

 
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Old 07-16-2017, 04:39 PM   #18
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Old 07-16-2017, 06:00 PM   #19
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sober bandleader
lol

 
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Old 07-18-2017, 06:49 PM   #20
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ok but seriously i had no idea jimmy was on drugs again during the machina tour. where did you hear that from? very curious.
It's come up in multiple interviews since the band broke up.


-In that Rolling Stone interview with Corgan (from 2010: where Corgan says he fired Chamberlin) both Jimmy and Billy say Jimmy did not get completely clean until 2003, right before his first daughter was born.
-In the same interview, Corgan says something along the lines of, "I never should have broken the band up. I should have told Jimmy to get sober and told James to get with the program or get the fuck out."
-On that official website from 2007-2009, where the writers would post articles about the band's history, they did an in-depth analysis of the origin and failure of Glass and the Ghost Children. I'm paraphrasing once again, but Billy said something along the lines of "James and D'arcy could not have cared less about the idea, and Jimmy was into it, but too messed up to put all his efforts into the project." (I only remember this because I remember it being the first time I heard that Jimmy was not clean when he rejoined the band).

We have no evidence that Jimmy continued to use heroin, but it would not surprise me. But it's been established he was not completely clean from 1998-2003. At the time, I think most people assumed he was because of how strongly Billy spoke about him in 1996/1997, but if you go back, no one actually said Jimmy cleaned up his act.

Regarding Billy, Jimmy, and 1996 incidents, no one could deny Billy could definitely have made better choices about the whole mess, Billy has said this countless times, but as others have pointed out, these were adults we were talking about. The band was at their absolute height, and I'm sure Billy knew the pressures and logistical nightmares that would come with having to cancel whole legs of a huge tour. Jimmy dropped the ball, and that falls on no one else but him. Also, and others have also pointed this out, dealing with addicts can be a tricky situation. I'm sure Jimmy and Johnathan were very convincing in their assertions that they could keep their shit together for a few more months, and I'm sure Billy truly wanted to hold them to their word.

From the Rolling Stone article:

"By the late nineties, the Pumpkins had been reduced to Corgan plus, 'two drug addicts and one guy who hated me, and I hated him.' The non-drug addict was guitarist James Iha . . ."
"As Corgan tells it, Iha got deep under his skin by acting hostile and then insisting nothing was wrong. Bassist Wretzky - who seemed to be around for her cool vibe and good taste than any particular musical talent - had already left the band by the time Corgan broke it up. He now wishes he'd done the whole thing differently. 'Rather than break up the band, what I should have done is chuck James out,' Corgan says. 'I should have just said to Jimmy, you go to rehab, and we'll continue, and James, get the fuck out of here.' "
"Until he had his first child seven years ago, Chamberlin was a heron addict..."

Last edited by themadcaplaughs : 07-18-2017 at 06:57 PM.

 
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Old 07-18-2017, 08:44 PM   #21
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Good. the more drugs the better.

and bElli was on e and speed and pills and shrooms and god knows what during mcis adore machina anyways...

 
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Old 07-18-2017, 09:02 PM   #22
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why was my post deleted?
becuz u suck donkey dong!

F U WEEZLE!! AHA!

 
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Old 07-19-2017, 03:53 AM   #23
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While recording Gish in Chicago, Butch threatened he would play the drums in case Jimmy didn't show up. So, on Billy brought the band to record in Georgia to isolate Jimmy from his dealers. It didn't work.

 
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Old 07-19-2017, 06:22 AM   #24
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Really. (Have you listened to Gish lately?)

 
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Old 07-19-2017, 06:22 AM   #25
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Something worked becuase his drumming slayeth!

 
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:54 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Forgotten Child View Post
While recording Gish in Chicago, Butch threatened he would play the drums in case Jimmy didn't show up. So, on Billy brought the band to record in Georgia to isolate Jimmy from his dealers. It didn't work.
The band recorded Gish in Madison, Wisconsin. Butch offered to play drums on Siamese Dream when Jimmy went on a bender in Athens/Atlanta. The band found him, and essentially held him hostage until he finished his drum parts.

 
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Old 07-19-2017, 12:03 PM   #27
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The band recorded Gish in Madison, Wisconsin. Butch offered to play drums on Siamese Dream when Jimmy went on a bender in Athens/Atlanta. The band found him, and essentially held him hostage until he finished his drum parts.
Jimmy disappearing for a day was not an uncommon thing…avenues of finding him would suddenly dry up, and you knew that he was up to no good as those in his inner circle miraculously didn’t know where he’d run off to, or perhaps they didn’t want to know…the first day of his disappearance, I head to the studio as always at my appointed hour of 11am, and tell Butch what is going on…this is not the first time Jimmy has vanished during the making of this record, so we take it as business as usual and plot the day around his absence, dealing with bass and guitar tone issues (our failsafe position if we are not tracking drums)…the second day, we start to get concerned…we ponder whether or not we should call the police because maybe something terrible has happened…we make some calls, and everyone spoken to says they haven’t seen hide nor hair of him…so we spend the day editing drums, which has an ominous bitterness to it because we are all hating Jimmy, and listening to him play take after take just deepens the bile…day 3, we are in a panic, calling his family and friends back up in Chicago, fearing the worst…we come to the conclusion that if we don’t hear from him by the next day we are going to file a missing persons report…none of us truly believes anything terrible has befallen him that isn’t of his own doing…the next morning, someone lets us know they had seen him the night before at a concert…not knowing we are freaking out looking for him, this person tells us that Jimmy was in great spirits, and that if he saw him again he would let him know we were looking for him…we decide to take action, and call up the local radio station in Atlanta and ask if we can go on the air…they are willing, and we do a live interview where we announce to all of metropolitan Atlanta if you see our drummer, will you ask him to please come back, call us, whatever…this is dealt with in a semi-humorous way, you know, “ha ha, a’int drummers ca-ray-zee!!”…

Now that the word is out, we get a report from someone that night that they have seen Jimmy at an R.E.M. show in Athens, Georgia, which is about an hour away! We are absolutely ready to kill him now, and almost no work is getting done because of the obvious distraction of the forever imploding drummer…we as a group come to the conclusion ‘fuck him”, let’s just focus best we can and let him have his day in the midnight sun…finally, on the 7th day, he calls our apartment…I speak to him sitting on the floor in his room, his stuff scattered everywhere like one would expect from someone who is running out the door for a night out…he tells me that he has done so much cocaine that he literally went blind, and this so freaked him out that it woke him up…he is contrite, and all I can tell him is Vince is coming to pick him up and not to move…waiting for him to arrive, we decide to put our foot down finally…when he arrives, he goes straight into his room for awhile, and when he comes out, we tell him to sit down because we have something to tell him…he is going to finish his drum takes, and then he is going into rehab…if he refuses, he will be fired…

 
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Old 07-19-2017, 12:07 PM   #28
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While Chamberlin performed all drum parts on the album, he would disappear for days on drug benders that caused everyone to fear for his life. After one incident where the drummer had disappeared for two or three days, Corgan "put the hammer down", according to Vig, and had Chamberlin perform the drum part for "Cherub Rock" until his hands bled.
also i love this anecdote

Quote:
Triclops studio was used because of 2 main reasons, it was not LA and they had a beautiful sounding Neve 8068. I believe Butch sought the studio for the board and wanted to keep the band away from distractions like there would be in LA.
Exactly, that's why we chose the studio...that Neve was a kickass sounding, and we thought we would be isolated enough to keep the distractions low.

However, within 24 hours Jimmy new every drug dealer, hooker, bookie, and nut case in Atlanta...so that part of the plan didn't work!

 
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Old 07-19-2017, 12:10 PM   #29
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bc: 'ello?

jc: billy, is me

bc: jimmy wher r u

jc: cocaine

bc: look around u and tell me wher u r

jc: billy i cant see nothin

bc: jimmy r u blind

jc: yes billy, am

bc: ohhhh nooo jimmy wat do

jc: mistake

 
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Old 07-19-2017, 12:16 PM   #30
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Yeah and I bet that tension and the craving fed right into his drumming.

Fuck yeah! Hail Bamophet!

 
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