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View Poll Results: Loveless or SD?
Loveless 9 37.50%
Siamese Cream Lol 15 62.50%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-21-2018, 09:23 AM   #91
FoolofaTook
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yes it's is true: i am no maiden tho i am an unstoppable warrior!!

 
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:29 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
A lot of highly revered founding indie bands are sonically limited compared to what alternative rock acts were doing in the 90s or whatever.
Like who?

 
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Old 07-21-2018, 12:48 PM   #93
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Like who?
like my bloody valentine, ding dong

 
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Old 07-21-2018, 12:50 PM   #94
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it actually seems to me that many seminal, highly influential music artists, whether we are talking about roots music in the 40s or college indie in the 80s, did something really innovative with a very specific sound or approach, which was later adopted into a larger, more diverse collage of sounds by successive artists

 
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Old 07-21-2018, 12:53 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
like my bloody valentine, ding dong
Yeah you've already established that absurd suggestion. I am more interested in what other "founding indie bands" you think are limited when compared to other "90s alternative acts."

 
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Old 07-21-2018, 01:30 PM   #96
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Yeah you've already established that absurd suggestion. I am more interested in what other "founding indie bands" you think are limited when compared to other "90s alternative acts."
no, go fuck yourself fartvase

 
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Old 07-21-2018, 01:30 PM   #97
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why don't you explain how anyone with ears could think Loveless is as sonically diverse as Siamese Cream

 
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Old 07-21-2018, 01:31 PM   #98
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In fairness though, Smashing Pumpkins cover a wider range of sounds than 90% of rock bands from any era

which is one of my main reasons for ultimately picking SD over Loveless. The diversity of soundscapes in SP's music still amazes me 15 years after I first heard their music.

 
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Old 07-21-2018, 02:09 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
why don't you explain how anyone with ears could think Loveless is as sonically diverse as Siamese Cream
There's nothing to explain. Just listen and count.

 
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Old 07-21-2018, 02:14 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
In fairness though, Smashing Pumpkins cover a wider range of sounds than 90% of rock bands from any era

which is one of my main reasons for ultimately picking SD over Loveless. The diversity of soundscapes in SP's music still amazes me 15 years after I first heard their music.
If you group Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, Adore, and both Machina albums then yes they cover a range of sounds that is wider than 100% of bands from any era.

However, if you are just comparing Siamese Dream to Loveless, you cannot say that Siamese Dream is as diverse as Loveless in the actual number of various sounds that exist to make up those albums.

 
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Old 07-21-2018, 02:40 PM   #101
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loveless's strength does not lie in 'diverse sonic soundscapes' or dynamic shifts or something. it lies in creating a world of psychadelium in which the listener can lose his or herself. dopesmoker is similar.

 
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Old 07-21-2018, 02:44 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by artvase View Post
If you group Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, Adore, and both Machina albums then yes they cover a range of sounds that is wider than 100% of bands from any era.

However, if you are just comparing Siamese Dream to Loveless, you cannot say that Siamese Dream is as diverse as Loveless in the actual number of various sounds that exist to make up those albums.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
loveless's strength does not lie in 'diverse sonic soundscapes' or dynamic shifts or something. it lies in creating a world of psychadelium in which the listener can lose his or herself. dopesmoker is similar.
agreed, Loveless' strength is something entirely different than SD which is why this comparison is so difficult to make. At a surface level the sounds are pretty similar but they are actually really, really different albums.

 
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Old 07-21-2018, 02:47 PM   #103
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i guess it depends on what you value as a listener. for me i want to be submerged in an album. loveless makes a better whole and captivates me far more than sd does.

 
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Old 07-21-2018, 03:21 PM   #104
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Fuck you you fucking cretin. Every post you make on this entire board is the fucking same. You refuse to offer any evidence of actual substance regarding what you have to say, then proceed to challenge people to make a point so you can shit on it with no basis.

You're the biggest fucking moron on this board. Fuck you, you fucking disgrace to contemporary culture.

 
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Old 07-21-2018, 03:39 PM   #105
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why are you so angry?

smoke a bowl and listen to you made me realise

 
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Old 07-21-2018, 03:52 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by artvase View Post
Fuck you you fucking cretin. Every post you make on this entire board is the fucking same. You refuse to offer any evidence of actual substance regarding what you have to say, then proceed to challenge people to make a point so you can shit on it with no basis.

You're the biggest fucking moron on this board. Fuck you, you fucking disgrace to contemporary culture.
dururr durrr count the soundz guise count them

 
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Old 07-21-2018, 04:07 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
why are you so angry?

smoke a bowl and listen to you made me realise
Throw the bowl in the garbage and contribute something intelligent to your community.

 
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Old 07-21-2018, 04:13 PM   #108
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you be trippin'

 
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:38 PM   #109
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Throw the bowl in the garbage and contribute something intelligent to your community.
Nah fuck that, smoke the bowl.

 
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:06 PM   #110
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PEER PRESSURE!

SMOKE
THE
BOWL!

SMOKE
THE
BOWL!

 
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Old 07-22-2018, 02:07 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
it's not just that, Loveless is actually just much more samey than Siamese Dream. A lot of highly revered founding indie bands are sonically limited compared to what alternative rock acts were doing in the 90s or whatever. it doesn't make it worse or better to me, but in general I tend to like artists with a lot of different sounds more than artists who cut all their songs from the same cloth
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
why don't you explain how anyone with ears could think Loveless is as sonically diverse as Siamese Cream
come on now man, this is profoundly untrue.

loveless is "samey" and non-diverse, in exactly the same way SD is "samey" simply because all songs feature the same guitar sound. there's a world of subtlety and nuance if you take the dive and really listen. it's all about how deep you're willing to go.

loveless is like a sonic painting. it's free, uninhibited, experimental, melodic, incredibly innovative and unique, and beautiful. SD is ("only", dare i say) a fantastic rock record, churning out numbers one after the other; no digression, no deviation, more sterile and choked (which has to do more with Butch Vig and the way he produced the band, and sort of enforced his accurate-metronome-drummer approach on JC - a noticeable mistake even after all these years).

they're both exceptional records at what they do; but when you shave it down to bare bone, one is an incredibly inventive piece of art that's impossible to replicate or truly imitate, that was born out of sheer vision and singularity. and the other is prominently derivative of that first work, is much more simple, less challenging, more "meat and potatoes" in essence and style - but does feature some incredibly strong songwriting, performance and meticulous arrangements.

though i dearly love both, that's what tips the scale for me.

 
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Old 07-22-2018, 02:10 AM   #112
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a comparison with much more merit would be PI against Loveless, tbh, and that would be fierce

 
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Old 07-22-2018, 02:21 AM   #113
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Quote:
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I said basically this exact thing in another thread and everyone took a giant shit on it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihaguitar View Post
I can see why they would do that. I don't see Siamese Dream as being anywhere near as restricted and polarised as that song, or indeed as the whole Loveless album.
you can disagree about which you like better, for sure, but if you can't see why Sometimes is the SD sound in a nutshell, then you're not really listening.

the airy attack of the acoustic guitar,
the way that exploding amp fuzz sound is "smack bang in the middle" (like Kevin Shields put it),
the dryness that cuts out nearly all ambiance from most elements on the record and utilizes very little delay/reverb,
the distinct doubling/chorusing/mixing of the vocals and placing them at just that point where they become a "sound" and not just some guy's voice.
even the way the synth is used in Sometimes is not dissimilar to the way SP used small guitar lines and licks, or mellotrons etc, to act as kind of a counterpoint to the vocal and carry the song along.

Corgan ripped off all these elements very intelligently and made fantastic use of them to realize his own vision, an actualize his own very accomplished music, but he did rip the hell out of mbv's sound, nice and proper, almost down to every last detail. let's not forget that

 
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Old 07-22-2018, 04:37 AM   #114
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The difference between Sometimes and Soon is obvious, but those are also the extreme ends of the spectrum of diversity on Loveless. That's compared to the spectrum of diversity on SD where Disarm and Spaceboy is at one end and Quiet and Geek are at the other. In fact songs like Geek and Hummer show more diversity on their own than all of Loveless.

I don't think the sameyness of Loveless is a bad thing, though. It's actually an asset to the effect of the album. Each of the individual songs on their own are quite samey because of their hypnotic repetitiveness, losing you in the dense sound if you allow it to. The album as a whole is samey because it sustains that lethargic, entrancing and melancholic mood throughout. I've heard people compare it to nodding out on heroin

 
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Old 07-22-2018, 04:46 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 View Post
you can disagree about which you like better, for sure, but if you can't see why Sometimes is the SD sound in a nutshell, then you're not really listening.

the airy attack of the acoustic guitar,
the way that exploding amp fuzz sound is "smack bang in the middle" (like Kevin Shields put it),
the dryness that cuts out nearly all ambiance from most elements on the record and utilizes very little delay/reverb,
the distinct doubling/chorusing/mixing of the vocals and placing them at just that point where they become a "sound" and not just some guy's voice.
even the way the synth is used in Sometimes is not dissimilar to the way SP used small guitar lines and licks, or mellotrons etc, to act as kind of a counterpoint to the vocal and carry the song along.

Corgan ripped off all these elements very intelligently and made fantastic use of them to realize his own vision, an actualize his own very accomplished music, but he did rip the hell out of mbv's sound, nice and proper, almost down to every last detail. let's not forget that
You know, I could see where he was coming from because of the strumming pattern and tempo, especially the very start, but that was about it. And I was thinking, that's not even an uncommon or unique strumming pattern anyway, is it? this song came to mind for me. But I'd never really realised all the other similarities that you listed. You've got a good ear.

I've sometimes (heh) described SD to someone who's heard one or the other as being very similar to Loveless, but with somewhat proggy arrangements, and virtuoso drum and guitar performances.

 
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Old 07-22-2018, 08:38 AM   #116
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well said, teh b0llz and shallowed. i salute you!

 
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:39 AM   #117
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If Siamese Dreams the yearning throb of an eager beavescrote, Loveless is the humid mystical sex that births god

 
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:25 AM   #118
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jebus i feel misty just reading that post

 
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Old 07-22-2018, 01:27 PM   #119
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So last night when I was in bed trying to unwind from DEAFHEAVEN, I put on hedphones and listened to Loveless all the way through for the first time in awhile. What a fuckin GORGEOUS album, like straight aural sex. Like Kevin Shields was like yes I want to make an album that makes the listener feel like I am gently fucking them, whispering romantic nothings in their ear, teasing and pleasing, but holding back from the edge, building the tension, making it last longer and lon.....

oh sorry

 
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Old 07-22-2018, 01:39 PM   #120
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what was I saying?

oh yeah. I still feel the SD does objectively cover a wider array of different soundscapes. There are elements of classic rock, pop, metal, shoegaze, folk and acoustic, and even glimpses of post punk and goth influences, and I'm probably still forgetting moments which allude to other sounds Billy was interested in as well. Loveless doesn't sound like anything but Loveless though.

SD is like an amazing feast displayed before you where all manners of sumptuous food from the most exotic corners of the world are brought forth to delight and enrich palette.

but Loveless is like a complete food; it's a core ingredient. Put down that fancy souffl, nay, I would not like another slice of overly complicated pie. Take your sugar, your crust, and your hours of slaving over the oven, and give me the fresh, juicy, sacred golden fruit at the heart of the recipe.

 
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