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Old 08-11-2014, 04:23 PM   #121
slunken
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Guys like Ram27 are the reason brickwalled audio even exists.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:23 PM   #122
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hey thanks

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:26 PM   #123
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Anyone know offhand who was playing drums on this?
Joey Waronker. Who is kind of a genius. Usually. In true Pumpkins fashion, his touch, amazing ability, technique, and proficiency are buried under all of the percussive mess of "Perfect."

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:31 PM   #124
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Joey Waronker. Who is kind of a genius. Usually. In true Pumpkins fashion, his touch, amazing ability, technique, and proficiency are buried under all of the percussive mess of "Perfect."
I didn't think it was M.Cameron or even M.Walker. So that would have only left Joey.

That first fill that sticks out like a sore thumb to some people is misleading because it's acting as a pick-up beat. If you listen to the rest of the song I think the fills are great and fast and sound like regular fills.

The song's tempo is being dictated electronically so I'm sure it was difficult to get the live drums timing just right, especially during the fills, which is why the fills sound so restrained later on. Some drummers will accent the fill as a new measures beginning but here the drum fills are muted and a pickup beat is the most accented.

I don't know a whoooole lot about drumming (obviously) but anyone who says the drums are "wrong" on this track is a total moron.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:33 PM   #125
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I'll admit that it first jumped out at me when listening over a phones speaker, but once I got home and put on headphones, the seperation of the two drum tracks was obvious and it all made total sense. I didn't even question it a 2nd time.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:36 PM   #126
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Why were people hyping up Towers of Rabble? Hasn't the Double Door recording been out for a while? Or was everyone hoping for a studio version.


The very first fill pisses me off, at 42 where he randomly hits a tom. Are we totally sure Mike Burns didn't rerecord this?
Yes, I think for a while Billy led people to believe there was a rough demo recording of "Towers of Rabble" he was looking at including in the reissues. He either mentioned it on Twitter or when he was still on Facebook in 2010.

So we did get a more clean version of the live recording though.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:38 PM   #127
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the drums aren't wrong. they just don't do a whole lot to help sustain the momentum.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:39 PM   #128
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They are playing, almost ridiculously, to a click track. To the point that the song seems kind of pasted together. Rubin should've gone more with letting the band play, as they do in the live versions.

Waronker has been Beck's drummer for forever now and his playing on this LMGTWTY is very reminiscent of his work on Sea Change. Here's him letting loose on PBS.


 
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:39 PM   #129
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i thought the towers of rabble demo was supposedly thrown out along with the gospel version of jupiter's lament because BC didnt like it

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:40 PM   #130
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The more I listen to it, the more the buried keyboard is starting to sound like a quiet harmonica.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:41 PM   #131
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i thought the towers of rabble demo was supposedly thrown out along with the gospel version of jupiter's lament because BC didnt like it
They included the gospel version of jupiter's lament. But yea the big baby said that Towers wasn't good enough to release.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:41 PM   #132
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The more I listen to it, the more the buried keyboard is starting to sound like a quiet harmonica.
Haha. Awesome.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:43 PM   #133
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as great as it is having this, it just doesn't sound finished in this incarnation. Billy was right to hold off and finish it properly for Machina 2.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:44 PM   #134
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ah, I don't know.. it's really a tough thing to think about in the first place.. I kind of doubt that Jimmy's presence would have changed the sound of adore and the musical approach they used.. even during many MCIS-era interviews, they (and jimmy too) were saying how they like the idea of experimenting with beats/samples and electronic stuff and they see themselves going in that direction for the next album..
Compare TITBITER to anything from Adore, that's the difference between electronic + Jimmy and electronic - Jimmy. His absence fundamentally shaped Adore, as much as his presence shaped Machina

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:44 PM   #135
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in 1998 incorporating electronic music with live band recordings always forced drummers to follow the click track. This awkward juxtoposition always made it difficult to use both. today with beat mapping you can easily add electronic drums to a live drum take (free of click track).

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:44 PM   #136
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Matt plays on TEITBITE not JC

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:46 PM   #137
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I wonder if this version is exactly like the Rick Rubin final version or if they changed it too much while remastering it. It sounds too clean and the vocals are too loud, it's more like a 2014 mix than a 1998 one, if you know what I mean.
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Everything sounds awkwardly bolted on instead of being part of the song.
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Originally Posted by AveryLoren View Post
I think there's definitely some revisionist history going on in this track.
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Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
M2 version is tons better. Better mixing, Jimmy drumming.
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Hold on a second- this sounds like a demo.

How can this be a final studio recording of a song?
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Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
It sounds like a Teargarden era LMGTWTY versus an Adore era LMGTWTY.
Agree with all of these comments, I was thinking all of this as I listened. It sounds unfinished and not properly mixed. I'm pretty underwhelmed, I can't believe that they grinded in he studio for this.

But I appreciate that something was dropped out of nowhere like this.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:03 PM   #138
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I like the vocals and guitars better on this version. With better drumming it would have been a hit single of 1979 proportions. I like the rawness of this version compared to the overproduced sound on Adore. I wish the whole album sounded more like this.

Last edited by houseofglass11 : 08-11-2014 at 05:10 PM.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:19 PM   #139
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I like the vocals and guitars better on this version. With better drumming it would have been a hit single of 1979 proportions. I like the rawness of this version compared to the overproduced sound on Adore. I wish the whole album sounded more like this.
Lol what? Sorry what versions are you talking about?

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:23 PM   #140
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What about the 2007 version:

I think it is good
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hrmT9pWqfwg

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:24 PM   #141
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Uh guys I'm pretty sure this song only has 1 drum track and it's live acoustic drums. That plodding beat you hear in the beginning is not electronic.. Waronker is playing a pretty straight forward Tom Tom groove, sort of reminiscent of SIYL but with less flare.

Last edited by paranoid : 08-11-2014 at 05:31 PM.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:29 PM   #142
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Uh guys I'm pretty sure this song only has 1 drum track and it's live acoustic drums. That plodding beat you hear in the beginning is not electronic.. War inker is playing a pretty straight forward Tom Tom groove, sort of reminiscent of SIYL but with less flare.
i swear i can hear some rhythmic bubbling thing creeping through here and there but i mentioned above i don't know jack about drumming.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:32 PM   #143
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wtf is TITBITER

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:37 PM   #144
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wtf is TITBITER
batman song.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:42 PM   #145
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Uh guys I'm pretty sure this song only has 1 drum track and it's live acoustic drums. That plodding beat you hear in the beginning is not electronic.. Waronker is playing a pretty straight forward Tom Tom groove, sort of reminiscent of SIYL but with less flare.
Ya- the mix is just shit and you can barely hear the toms.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:42 PM   #146
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i swear i can hear some rhythmic bubbling thing creeping through here and there but i mentioned above i don't know jack about drumming.
You do hear that, but it's all live drumming. Joey's pretty great and solid and this track shows that.

I love the subdued ending, btw. Underwhelming if compared to SPs other epic build ups, but this ending is pretty characteristic of adores sound and production. I remember feeling underwhelmed in that same way when I first heard adore. Crestfallen is probably the best example of a song lacking the grand dynamics that made the pumpkins great. But again with time I've learned to appreciate the different approach with adore.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:43 PM   #147
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Lol what? Sorry what versions are you talking about?
I think Adore is overproduced. There's too much going on in a lot of the songs.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:45 PM   #148
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What about the 2007 version:

I think it is good
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hrmT9pWqfwg
Good joke.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:10 PM   #149
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I like it. It's nice. his voice sounds really good to me.

 
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:23 PM   #150
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I think Adore is overproduced. There's too much going on in a lot of the songs.

 
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