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Old 12-12-2016, 11:50 PM   #121
reprise85
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Originally Posted by yo soy el mejor View Post
i don't look at you as a victim so much as a stupid sixteen year old who sent nudes online.
How can you say that, could you honestly look at a 16 year old now who was doing the same thing and think they were just stupid and know exactly what they are doing and weren't being victimized? Of course she's a victim of your ex, and of course he took advantage of her age and whatever made her vulnerable to exploitative people like him. You are literally blaming the victim.

 
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Old 12-12-2016, 11:53 PM   #122
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Thanks guys. Yes, I have forgiven myself to some extent and I do realize that I was brainwashed and lost a lot, personally, form the experience.

He was excellent at making me lose sight of two basic things: 1. that it was possible for me to leave and 2. that I could actually call the police on him and they would care/do something. Either of things were physically possible (most of the time) while I was there, but psychologically he somehow was able to make me not see them as possibilities.
this is really fucked up erica, sorry you went through that.
also, sorry if it sounds really creepy, but tbqh i can't help but be really curious about how one goes about brainwashing another person like that. kind of in the same way i'm interested in reading about fucked up shit on the internet. what are the mechanics behind that? how is it done? it just boggles my mind that it's real, and it's so fucked up and cruel.

 
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Old 12-13-2016, 12:05 AM   #123
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Well, it starts by picking a good victim. Young and already fucked up works best. Check.

Secondly, you act and make them think like the relationship is perfect and that you believe they are perfect and you're soulmates and stuff. Take advantage of their naivety. I've heard it called the 10 and 0 approach. At first, they are perfect - 10 good things about them, and 0 bad things. Gradually, it becomes 9 - 1 but hey, they treat you really well 90% of the time and think you're 90% perfect. That's pretty good. And then 8-2. Etc. It's gradual.

He also introduced me to his 'problem' of looking at child porn pretty early in the relationship. However, he limited it to the idea it was of people my age and older, and that it was this terrible thing he'd done like twice and he hated himself for it and could I help him with it?

Ok so for me at this point when we met in person for the first time, which was like 6 months maybe after we started talking more seriously, he started some process of trying to convince my parents it would be OK for him to live with us/for me to live with him. And they were cool with a lot of it somehow, except him possibly living in the actual house. Which paved the way for, if they aren't going to help us be together and live together, why don't we go back to where his family was where we could do that (because, cheaper or whatever). And then he somehow convinced everyone in my family and his family that it was OK.

At this point I was fucked. We spent literally 24/7 together except for a few times we each went into a doc's office until I turned 18, a bit after, when I got a job outside the house/him.

You can really fuck up a kid when you're their only exposure, they are naive enough to think love conquers all, and you purposefully try to fuck them up. But if you can isolate them at the age I was, from their entire previous life, you can basically make them into a lot of things. I think I was a bit too old to be able to turn completely, and I never would have gotten to the point where I thought what he wanted to do was OK (kidnap children) but if I had been younger or had some kind of predisposition to exploiting others myself, it might have been different. I was his first long term project. I'm sure he's tried other things with other people.

It's all really individualized at a micro level but the induction of stockholm syndrome is a bit easier to explain. If you deprive someone of everyday things, like positive emotions, food, sleep, etc (all things he did to me), eventually the person starts confusing anything you do give them or let them do (like take a shower) as "favors" or them being "nice." So you confuse normal human behaviors with benevolence b/c you are so used to malevolence that it seems normal. Does that make sense?

It's like you go in with good intentions and you want to make it work out and everything. And all of a sudden your stakes are all in this one person - you've moved away from your family, you're not even really an adult and have never done the normal transition things that people do in their teens, are being slowly pushed towards accepting more extreme behaviors, don't think you have another choice so try to find a way to mediate the behaviors but it's a losing battle. At some point it gets irreconcilable though, I wasn't going to help him kidnap others and I kept on sabotaging his efforts to do things like surreptitiously record girls, so it reach a boiling point where something had to happen. Luckily it was me getting away and not extreme violence. I mean he hit me and shit but I'm talking murder or suicide, which is where it would have led to within months I'd say. There was always the lose script where there would be some kind of 'problem' he had with me, which would lead to him hitting me etc, and I knew that if I let him have sex with me and watched what he wanted me to or whatever it would lead to a period where I could actually maybe sleep for an hour or pretend things were normal for a little while. But this cycle kept getting shorter and shorter until he was just pissed at me all the time about the last year I was there.

Last edited by reprise85 : 12-13-2016 at 12:15 AM.

 
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Old 12-13-2016, 12:51 AM   #124
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your parents really fucked up horribly, didn't they
(sorry to say so but it's true)

 
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Old 12-13-2016, 01:06 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by reprise85 View Post
You are literally blaming the victim.
I realize the touchiness of this subject but you're also taking away the agency of someone allowed to get behind the wheel and propel a motorcar.

 
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Old 12-13-2016, 01:13 AM   #126
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i'm just saying words, obviously.

what's the end game to this quarrel?

bonnie, what do you hope to achieve here?

 
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Old 12-13-2016, 01:30 AM   #127
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your parents really fucked up horribly, didn't they
(sorry to say so but it's true)
yes, they did. i also had a therapist who knew i was moving away. i was "being defiant" and would come right back

 
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Old 12-13-2016, 01:39 AM   #128
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I realize the touchiness of this subject but you're also taking away the agency of someone allowed to get behind the wheel and propel a motorcar.
I'm not saying she was as helpless as a younger child, but 16 year old girls (plus I believe she was actually younger than this) are easily manipulated. And even if it was completely of her own volition to send them (doubtful), him accepting and encouraging them is just as serious as soliciting them in the first place.

In any situation where someone is hurt, they could have done something differently. Not went to that place. Not worn that thing. I don't think this is any different. Yes she had personal agency but someone else is still actively perpetrating abuse on her.

I never sent my guy nudes but it was before that became as prevalent online. I was 14 when I started seriously talking to my ex and I was absolutely unable to grasp how inappropriate our conversation was. At first it really scared me off but in time it becomes normalized and fucked up things can happen. I doubt bonnie just was like here's some nudes!!! from day one

 
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Old 12-13-2016, 01:50 AM   #129
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16-year-olds are children. their brains still need the better part of a decade to finish developing

 
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Old 12-13-2016, 02:04 AM   #130
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16-year-olds are children. their brains still need the better part of a decade to finish developing
Lynndie England was barely 23

 
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Old 12-13-2016, 02:38 AM   #131
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you keep saying stuff like that as if i don't have any sympathy for victims of sexual abuse. and it's another way to victimize yourself.

i don't look at you as a victim so much as a stupid sixteen year old who sent nudes online. especially since you did it well into your 20s. i did the same at fifteen, too, but my mom found out and i got an earful.

and now you're a stupid 26 year old who wants to blame what transpired between you and alex on me (cause we were dating? or were we broken up? i have no idea when you sent him nudes) cause he's not around and you're trying to act like you had no responsibility for your actions.
I've repeated facts with dates (I'm not even 26 yet!) but you know what it's ok just keep being terrible, ******. I should have never expected anything more from you

 
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Old 12-13-2016, 02:40 AM   #132
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How can you say that, could you honestly look at a 16 year old now who was doing the same thing and think they were just stupid and know exactly what they are doing and weren't being victimized? Of course she's a victim of your ex, and of course he took advantage of her age and whatever made her vulnerable to exploitative people like him. You are literally blaming the victim.
I just wanna shoutout to reprise for being a good person and repeating the sentiments and morals we gotta stick to. I feel like I'm insane for feeling this way at times but comments like this are a beam of light

 
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Old 12-13-2016, 02:50 AM   #133
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I'm not saying she was as helpless as a younger child, but 16 year old girls (plus I believe she was actually younger than this) are easily manipulated. And even if it was completely of her own volition to send them (doubtful), him accepting and encouraging them is just as serious as soliciting them in the first place.

In any situation where someone is hurt, they could have done something differently. Not went to that place. Not worn that thing. I don't think this is any different. Yes she had personal agency but someone else is still actively perpetrating abuse on her.

I never sent my guy nudes but it was before that became as prevalent online. I was 14 when I started seriously talking to my ex and I was absolutely unable to grasp how inappropriate our conversation was. At first it really scared me off but in time it becomes normalized and fucked up things can happen. I doubt bonnie just was like here's some nudes!!! from day one
I WILL REPEAT IT.

Age 15, 2006: joined netphoria, alex talked to me inappropriately, sometimes on the board. **** said that in 2005 (1 year before I joined!!!) she found "straight up cp (child porn) on his pc and they broke up kinda sorta but were still friends (as interaction on the board proves I guess?). Everyone knew my age and made a big deal about julio talking to me but not alex. **** found "straight up cp" but didnt think it was weird or alarming he was talking to a 15 year old? She treated me with abuse and dirision for years past. Her and hnibos (he's since apologized, so I'm not calling him out) posted public pics of me on facebook that were less than flattering or they weren't because I'm just a human being but she has a way of making you feel bad. Oh man like that time I did a conference call with julio and **** and julio said something about my voice and **** said "that's just how all fat people sound". Also there were no nudes exchanged because i did not, at this point, have access to this. If that somehow makes me less of a victim then i don't care because it all is what it is
Age 16: i'm hardcore and that mess. We would chat about sex stuff on aim and he'd say it's legal in new zealand and send me pics and I sent him pics. I don't feel great about it and weve gone over it.
Age 17: i trolled banana with pics of my feet, my bf's butt (the exchange was like, he gets the pic and was like "mmm show me more baby" and i was like "r u serious thats a mans butt" and he was like "i was wondering about the hair". i did it for you netphoria. In retrospect i feel like it was cruel.

After age 18: it doesnt count and i havent complained. Ive had sexual relationships with people from netphoria and the oboard and they are what they are. Not predators. I mean these usually went kinda badly but you know.

 
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Old 12-13-2016, 02:54 AM   #134
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Sorry for bad format and write i am not good at

 
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Old 12-13-2016, 03:51 AM   #135
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Sorry for bad format and write i am not good at
who amongst us is?

 
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Old 12-13-2016, 04:05 AM   #136
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I'm sure there were and are a few.

I guess I don't want to get too into what my childhood was like in context because ****** treats it like it is relevant. I'm basically just appalled that as a 20 something she didn't do anything (I mean, I had a pretty good idea that she knew, because why else would she treat me with scorn? + stuff julio said, stuff she said, etc.) and she did nothing productive. Even if she really didn't know or whatever she has called me "lolita" and outright said that I seduced all these men and they under no circumstances did not prey on me. I think regardless of who a person is/how mature/etc. I''d default on the opinion that 15 year olds are children.

I mean it took me a long time to realize that the tricks I learned from Julio were wrong. For a long time I just walked around thinking jealousy/abuse/codependence/destructive behavior/all the bad things were normal and useful and I have had to relearn everything.

 
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Old 12-13-2016, 04:05 AM   #137
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Even 20 year old me would have taken issue with that tbh

Last edited by ohnoitsbonnie : 12-13-2016 at 08:44 PM. Reason: Changed men to me

 
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Old 12-14-2016, 05:23 PM   #138
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bonnie is a pig. always saying perverted and jerky things to me. i don't much care for it.

 
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Old 12-14-2016, 05:28 PM   #139
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I'm basically just appalled that as a 20 something she didn't do anything (I mean, I had a pretty good idea that she knew, because why else would she treat me with scorn? + stuff julio said, stuff she said, etc.)
oh, i thought you knew because alex told you i did (lol); your pretty good idea doesn't hold up. and i've never behaved any differently towards you than you have me (so that explains the "scorn"). and why should i? you've always been a major little bitch.

 
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Old 12-14-2016, 06:34 PM   #140
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bonnie is a pig. always saying perverted and jerky things to me. i don't much care for it.
Oh yeah what is this based on

 
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Old 12-14-2016, 06:38 PM   #141
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Let's see the pervy things I say

 
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Old 12-14-2016, 06:41 PM   #142
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don't play stupid with me, stupid. leave me alone. sheesh!

 
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Old 12-14-2016, 07:14 PM   #143
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Insane

 
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Old 12-14-2016, 07:19 PM   #144
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ya i'm just like anyone who doesn't appreciate being blamed for the actions of others or dragged into anyone's personal mess. how totally insane.

 
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Old 12-14-2016, 07:29 PM   #145
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Old 12-14-2016, 10:10 PM   #146
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The 5x Siddartha Opus, duh.

 
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