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07-12-2019, 05:02 PM | #121 |
real estate cowboy
Location: if Monsanto and Purdue Pharma had a baby
Posts: 36,879
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gezellig
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07-12-2019, 05:05 PM | #122 |
Braindead
Location: Ignore List
Posts: 17,229
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i'm glad to see things are basically the same here
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07-12-2019, 05:47 PM | #123 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,839
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Quote:
The word "racism," as used by most English speakers, has a wider meaning than just "institutional racism," and describes a range of things from power structures to individual mental attitudes. What "need" is being suited by redefining the word "racism" to mean "institutional racism?" If the goal is to serve as a response to people who try to downplay the significance of racism against minorities with "but minorities can be racist against whites, too!", then, as I said, I think the proper response to that is simply to explain that racism against minorities is often backed by societal power that sustains inequalities, rather than just to redefine racism so that one can go "that doesn't count." This is one of those cases where I agree with the general position as some other people, but think that the argument they use in support of said position is poor, and would rather see my position supported by stronger arguments to present the strongest possible version of my position. Like, if we go with the redefining option, we're led to some conclusions that seem clearly wrong. Let's take a minority who has more societal power than is typical of his ethnicity, such as Barack Obama. If racism must be "prejudice + power," then a poor Southern white who compares Obama to a monkey isn't really being racist, because he has less power than Obama. This seems to me to be a wrong conclusion, because the white guy in question is clearly racist, so the argument that leads to it must be wrong. Also, the bit about a white person never being at risk of being beaten up or murderered for being white just isn't true, but I don't feel like posting the examples of it happening because I'm not interested in looking like I'm going on some crusade to make these incidents seem equivalent in scope to the historical and continuing violence against minorities. But yeah, the prejudiced-and-bigoted-but-maybe-not-racist minorities sometimes commit pretty bad hate crimes against white people simply because they are white. Last edited by Disco King : 07-12-2019 at 06:57 PM. Reason: I made a mistake |
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07-12-2019, 06:29 PM | #124 |
real estate cowboy
Location: if Monsanto and Purdue Pharma had a baby
Posts: 36,879
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guys, can we settle this by all playing our favourite Falco albums? guy just had natural swagger
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07-12-2019, 06:56 PM | #125 | |
Socialphobic
Location: Away
Posts: 11,398
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Quote:
I suggest you do some more reading and freshen up your sources a bit, or don't... I don't know... live your truth or whatever makes you happy. Happy trails. Last edited by LaBelle : 07-12-2019 at 07:02 PM. |
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07-12-2019, 07:05 PM | #126 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,839
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07-12-2019, 07:16 PM | #127 |
Socialphobic
Location: Away
Posts: 11,398
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07-12-2019, 08:53 PM | #128 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,839
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I suppose repeating a bare assertion with no attempt at constructing an argument to support it, simply dismissing any argument questioning said bare assertion as "logical fallacies," and responding to any request to illuminate which logical fallacies have been committed with a Big Bang Theory Tumblr GIF, is a suitable alternative to making an attempt to respond in good faith.
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07-12-2019, 09:11 PM | #129 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,839
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07-12-2019, 09:11 PM | #130 |
Socialphobic
Location: Your god damn living room
Posts: 10,000
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07-12-2019, 09:45 PM | #131 |
Braindead
Posts: 18,608
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07-12-2019, 09:49 PM | #132 |
Braindead
Posts: 18,608
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And by "interested" I mean bracing myself for being told how I'm wrong and dumb no matter what I say or think or do.
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07-12-2019, 10:01 PM | #133 | |
Socialphobic
Location: Away
Posts: 11,398
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Quote:
You're using very similar talking points and trying to bait me into a "logical argument" like the racist right winger nuts on the internet do. So congrats. I'm a white passing latina, so it's absolutely not my place to explain black people's oppression. There's really no point in trying to continue this argument. |
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07-12-2019, 11:22 PM | #134 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,839
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You seemed happy to talk about it until your opinion wasn't immediately deferred to without question, but ok.
I don't see how my position is similar to a right-wingers' when I specifically gave an accountant of how we can still analyze racism against minorities as a more pernicious and entrenched phenomenon than racism against whites without having to redefine any words. My position, for anyone who's been paying attention, is still that white people have power in society, rendering their racism against other ethnic and racial groups supportive of systems of inequality and oppression. In fact, what we've been disagreeing on isn't even about whether black people are oppressed, which I obviously agree with. Rather, it's been about how definitions work, a question relevant to philosophy of language and philosophy of science. Stipulating definitions are definitions that stipulate a specific, narrower sense than for a word than how it is typically used. Even if a stipulating definition proves useful or expedient in a limited context, it can never replace the broader definition of how the word is used, so it makes no sense to say "the stipulating definition is the only correct one, and the regular one is wrong," because the very definition of a word is how it is used, so top-down redefinition a of words don't really work. A test of a stipulating definition is its utility. I've been saying that stipulating "racism" to mean "institutional racism" isn't very useful, because we've already got the term "institutional racism" to describe just that, and stipulating the term to mean something else leads to logical consequences that actually go against the aim of redefining it in the first place. |
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07-12-2019, 11:46 PM | #135 |
Ownz
Posts: 901
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i think youre right.
i think defining racism as necessarily instiutional serves a purpose and makes sense in the realm of like academic arguments but most people on earth don't participate in those discourse communities and define racism in the more straightforward way of just being prejudiced against a race. definitions arent deigned by plato's philosopher kings but emerge from common understandings. so "racism" means both of those things at the same time. saying "reverse racism doesnt exist" doesn't make sense because reverse racism is a concept people believe in, and make real when they act in the world based on their understanding of it. you can argue that it is a harmful concept, but to just be like "its not real, what's real is MY theories about how race operates" assumes your subjective persoective has some kind of special access to objective reality. which it does, but so does everybody else's. if people generally agree a word means something, then it does. |
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07-13-2019, 12:04 AM | #136 | ||
Braindead
Posts: 18,608
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Quote:
Quote:
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07-13-2019, 12:12 AM | #137 |
Socialphobic
Location: Away
Posts: 11,398
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Next on netphoria: hetero pride day is totally valid!
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07-13-2019, 12:13 AM | #138 |
Socialphobic
Location: Away
Posts: 11,398
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also netphoria: blue lives matter!
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07-13-2019, 12:13 AM | #139 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: Greater Anabaptist Rakefighter Kingdom
Posts: 1,058
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lagical fallacies
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07-13-2019, 12:14 AM | #140 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: Greater Anabaptist Rakefighter Kingdom
Posts: 1,058
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I mean phallusies
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07-13-2019, 12:25 AM | #141 |
Braindead
Posts: 18,608
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Yes that is exactly what I believe, definitely not the complete polar opposite.
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07-13-2019, 01:02 AM | #142 |
Socialphobic
Location: Away
Posts: 11,398
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Why not? We've got people arguing with a straight face that reverse racism exists.
Might as well complete the set. |
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07-13-2019, 01:57 AM | #143 |
Braindead
Posts: 18,608
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Ovary is the only person that said that, and I don't know who the fuck they are
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07-13-2019, 06:32 AM | #144 |
Ownz
Posts: 901
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man i didnt say that i think its a good concept, just that it doesn't make sense, nor is it rhetorically effective, to say it "doesn't exist."
but labelle doesnt want to argue about reverse racism, she just wants to call people racists in snide ways. |
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07-13-2019, 06:33 AM | #145 |
Ownz
Posts: 901
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also i identify as she/her/hers dont misgender me you neanderthal
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07-13-2019, 06:49 AM | #146 |
Braindead
Posts: 18,608
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I didn't accuse you of saying that reverse racism is a good concept, I accused you of saying that it exists.
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07-13-2019, 06:55 AM | #147 |
Braindead
Posts: 18,608
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07-13-2019, 07:19 AM | #148 | ||
Socialphobic
Location: Away
Posts: 11,398
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Quote:
Quote:
I didn't call anyone racist you idiotic mouthbreather. |
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07-13-2019, 07:23 AM | #149 |
Braindead
Posts: 18,608
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07-13-2019, 07:32 AM | #150 |
Ownz
Posts: 901
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yall can either engage with the argument or keep slinging shit. you fucking freaks!
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