Has this year been a turning point?

[paranoid]

Originally Posted by johncg

Every single time Billy has started a new phase and gained a little momentum I have thought he was reaching a turning point. And every single time he has fucked it up.

Examples: Zwan, SP 2.0, Teargarden/Mike Burns era, etc.

Sooner or later he’s going to revert back to “they’re just assholes” mode or appear on a KKK podcast or do an 8-hour interpretive performance of the Iliad in his boxer shorts. It’s just inevitable.

i don't think he genuinely had his heart in any of these endeavors. he was in denial. he was already filled with piss and vinegar when zeitgeist started and that only got worse over the next year and a half. him fucking that up was not surprising.

i think, looking back at the past two decades post machina, all he wanted was Smashing Pumpkins back and moving forward. he was mad at james for checking out, wanted to prove he could do it without him, then without jimmy, and he did not seem to enjoy any of it.

Now he seems psyched and motivated that he's working with jimmy and james again. he made it through a grueling tour in his 50's with no major meltdowns. that's pretty telling.. i think he prioritizes peace in his life and i think the future looks good.

the whole darcy thing? sure he may have mishandled that to a degree but he unfairly gets all of the blame. she's been out of her mind for a while, and let's face reality, she was never coming back. when the reality of her having to get back on stage surfaced she freaked out and she finally got her chance to unload 30 years worth of rage on corgan, which, good for her, but also that was her way out from never having to step on a stage again. tl;dr, she really didn't want to do this.

[WeilandFan]

Originally Posted by paranoid

the whole darcy thing? sure he may have mishandled that to a degree but he unfairly gets all of the blame. she's been out of her mind for a while, and let's face reality, she was never coming back. when the reality of her having to get back on stage surfaced she freaked out and she finally got her chance to unload 30 years worth of rage on corgan, which, good for her, but also that was her way out from never having to step on a stage again. tl;dr, she really didn't want to do this.

She really did, trust me. Read the texts, she was pissed because she wanted to be back as the bassist. If she didn't really care she would have done the 'Steven Adler' guest bit. I would agree though that it is more complicated, ultimately I don't think they ever rebuilt the trust in their relationship (especially based on her Alternative Nation quotes, and also some of Billy's comments about her). I think James and Jimmy being totally uninvolved in Billy and D'arcy's discussions was a huge mistake too, James could have been a real buffer between the two, and helped get them all in a room together. Based on James' recent interview quotes, he seemed totally disconnected from the discussions.

The goal should have been to get in a room together before a Live Nation arena tour negotiation. I've said it before, I think if D'arcy was there they would have more international show/festival offers, and there wouldn't have been just two international Shiny shows. While the tour did well and the band seem to be in a good place, I think if D'arcy was there 'they would have gotten out of America' and Billy's dream of world domination with the tour could have had a better shot of coming true.

[killtrocity]

Silvery Sometimes is melodic, which is more than you can say about 98% of his work from the last decade. Like Tiberius is melodic and has the signature tone, but in a way that feels like he started over from level 1 or something and is relearning how to write slightly interesting songs.

So it's a step in the right direction but it's still just baby steps, nowhere close to the symphonic heights of SD or MCIS or the emotional heights of Adore. And Solara still has that overly-compensating masculine edge like he's still trying to do burn lies off our souls or whatever, but the song is so simplistic that it's all bark and no bite. Like basically every song with distortion since Zeitgeist. I wanna hear some of the godly guitar work that he displayed at the live shows. That was a fucking shock, because he's never shown anything remotely close to that level of creativity or technical proficiency on any recording from this millennium. More complexity, more solos, more melody, something, anything. Not more droning on the low E string. And ideally some fusion of all of those. If the next song is another Silvery Sometimes, I will consider him to be out of ideas.

The 90's are coming back. I walked by the GAP at the mall, and they're selling plain fucking grey sweatshirts and flannel and acid washed jeans for 50-90 bucks. I think there's space in the mainstream culture for more of that esthetic, so he really should just run with it and go back to his Gish roots since he's so fixated on popularity.

[Zer0 Hour]

Originally Posted by WeilandFan

She really did, trust me. Read the texts, she was pissed because she wanted to be back as the bassist. If she didn't really care she would have done the 'Steven Adler' guest bit. I would agree though that it is more complicated, ultimately I don't think they ever rebuilt the trust in their relationship (especially based on her Alternative Nation quotes, and also some of Billy's comments about her). I think James and Jimmy being totally uninvolved in Billy and D'arcy's discussions was a huge mistake too, James could have been a real buffer between the two, and helped get them all in a room together. Based on James' recent interview quotes, he seemed totally disconnected from the discussions.

The goal should have been to get in a room together before a Live Nation arena tour negotiation. I've said it before, I think if D'arcy was there they would have more international show/festival offers, and there wouldn't have been just two international Shiny shows. While the tour did well and the band seem to be in a good place, I think if D'arcy was there 'they would have gotten out of America' and Billy's dream of world domination with the tour could have had a better shot of coming true.

Yeah, that sounds about right. Goddamnit, I hope that one day Billy will see that being such a control freak has been as damaging to his career as it has been beneficial. Yes, his tendencies produced some great albums that will live on forever, but it's also destroyed partnerships that could have helped him sustain his success for much longer. Getting all four of them into a room together seems like a no-brainer, but of course he wouldn't do that. It had to all go through him.

Of course, one has to wonder why Jimmy and James didn't just reach out to her on their own. But maybe they feared doing that would cause Billy to freak out and cancel the whole thing.

[johncg]

D’Arcy is and will always be the yang to Billy’s yin.

Right now the vibe in the band is all “yes man.” I’m not saying that’s bad. But it is what it is: a polite, professional situation where everyone knows Billy is CEO of SP, inc., and carries out their affairs accordingly.

D’Arcy is the one person who has always had the guts (and the craziness) to stand up to Billy and say “no.” And even though she was out from the beginning, her decision to rage at him and leak his texts still had a profound effect on SP world and the level of integrity with which the band carried out the tour.

It’s unfortunate that they are unable to mend bridges. Regardless of who played what when Butch Vig rolled tape, there was a real magic about the original four members that can never be replaced. And D’Arcy’s heart, guts, and intensity was a huge part of that.

[FoolofaTook]

http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=186812

[SPfan79]

Originally Posted by johncg

D’Arcy is and will always be the yang to Billy’s yin.

Right now the vibe in the band is all “yes man.” I’m not saying that’s bad. But it is what it is: a polite, professional situation where everyone knows Billy is CEO of SP, inc., and carries out their affairs accordingly.

D’Arcy is the one person who has always had the guts (and the craziness) to stand up to Billy and say “no.” And even though she was out from the beginning, her decision to rage at him and leak his texts still had a profound effect on SP world and the level of integrity with which the band carried out the tour.

It’s unfortunate that they are unable to mend bridges. Regardless of who played what when Butch Vig rolled tape, there was a real magic about the original four members that can never be replaced. And D’Arcy’s heart, guts, and intensity was a huge part of that.

This is spot on. Bravo

[FoolofaTook]

is this the thread about parsley and turnips?

[SPfan79]

The turnip joke was old once the new thread started

[FoolofaTook]

What are you trying to say? That I'm not funny?

[SPfan79]

Not today

[Corgan's Bluff]

First Greatest Hits broadcast A-level tour with one new song as a fig leaf.

https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...dc&oe=5C4F554F