itt: we discuss bass

[thomas_bland]

I thought it was Cello but yeah.

Thinking about it I'd be a lot more bothered about ever seeing the Metro 'final' show if D'arcy had been around then. Having only seen the band from Machina onwards it feels like I never saw the real thing. Because I didn't.

[Funbags]

Originally Posted by thomas_bland

Set the Ray to Jerry... Love the bass sound on this. As said above D'arcy was 'punk rock' in her style but it's simple elegant and worked for the band.

I guarantee Billy is playing bass on Set the Ray to Jerry.

[thomas_bland]

It's possible I guess, not sure you can guarantee it though.

[East Rocket]

Originally Posted by thomas_bland

Was it the cover of Rock On from Judas O?

Might've been. Sounds right. I remember reading something back in Nov of 2000 that said Melissa only played bass on one track of odds and ends they were finishing up before the final shows.

[Ram27]

Originally Posted by Funbags

I guarantee Billy is playing bass on Set the Ray to Jerry.

Pretty sure he said in the liner notes it was a live take of the full band

[themadcaplaughs]

Billy played bass on "Set the Ray to Jerry."

From the liner notes to the reissue

"This bad pun of a title stems from an inside joke, taken from the annals of a romance gone wrong where I referred to myself in the 3rd person as 'Jerry"; in honor of the famed comedian Jerry Lewis. Hence, my mind's correlation to another man's name, in this case 'Ray' or; an endless beam of light; which denotes this song surreptitiously as 'Please Set the Endless Ray of Light Machine to Billy.' A leftover from the Siamese era, it would attract little love from producer Flood, who thought the whole journey a bit daft despite its occasional atmospheric quality. James would provide the under-chime, all of 3 notes he'd hypnotically repeat ad nauseam. The basic track was performed live at Pumpkinland, with myself on bass and Jimmy on interloping drums, or total time of recording top to bottom somewhere in the 3 to 4 hour range. So you see, miracles occasionally do happen in our world, as faithfully documented here."

[Funbags]

[run2pee]

I feel the bass tone/performance on "To Forgive" is superb. Esp. during the early sparse verses, whoevers playing puts a perfect lil queasy wobble into those root notes that subtly destabilizes the sounds that ride upon it and makes song feel that much more fragile.

A thematic choice in a fucken root note, perfectly executed such that you'd never notice unless you were specific focused on bass. Now how can these fucks argue bass is easy

[thomas_bland]

Originally Posted by Funbags

Ha, got me told!

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by East Rocket

Yeah that's a good bass part. I'm not saying the bass parts are bad they just aren't Les Claypool type bass playing. I like the bass intros on songs like My Eternity, There It Goes. Simple but they work well.

I wonder who is doing the remixing on the Machina reissue?

yeah, in the early days Billy seemed to write with the bass more. There It Goes is another example of a song which at least strongly seems to have been written around the bass line.

on Machina at least some of the problem is mastering. The premaster of Machina that is floting around the internet is crisper and more defined than the final product, although listening to the heavier songs still sounds like drowning in sludge.

[redbreegull]

I like the bass in Winterlong a lot. The whole song sounds like being trapped inside a dark house in a snow storm or something, looking out your windows in loneliness. That bass line sounds so solitary and lonesome.

[bobliefeld]

I think Machina is very busy and not a fun sounding record but if you've got decent equipment you'll hear it is pretty clear and very interesting sounding record that's very bass driven. On the equipment I had as a teen it sounded like mush on what I have now it sounds lush.

It doesn't sound like baritones or drop c to me. Quick example would be IotM I guess. Baritone you're basically hijacking the bass guitars territory anyway.


A virtuoso is someone like Steve Vai or YJM. No fun

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by bobliefeld

I think Machina is very busy and not a fun sounding record but if you've got decent equipment you'll hear it is pretty clear and very interesting sounding record that's very bass driven. On the equipment I had as a teen it sounded like mush on what I have now it sounds lush.

It doesn't sound like baritones or drop c to me. Quick example would be IotM I guess. Baritone you're basically hijacking the bass guitars territory anyway.


A virtuoso is someone like Steve Vai or YJM. No fun

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest over sound equipment with you but I have a very nice setup and Machina still sounds like mush in a lot of places, as does MCIS. Preference is subjective and if that kind of production is your thing whatever, but these two albums are very obviously produced with a lot of muddy low end compared to Gish, SD, or Adore, or compared to most rock albums really. IotM is not on a baritone guitar, but there are a lot of baritone guitars on Machina. The guitars on Everlasting Gaze and HMM are tuned C G C F A D. Yes, that takes the guitars down into bass territory. No, that does not mean a baritone guitar is the same thing as a bass or that a song featuring a prominent guitar riff in drop C is "driven" by the bass. If anything all this attention to the low end should result in something huge and powerful down there, but the production leaves the distortion sounding boomy and unclear. HMM should feel like a hydrogen bomb going off in my head but instead it sounds like a toothless sludgy disaster.

your definition of virtuoso is arbitrary. The word just means someone who is highly skilled. Billy Corgan could go tow to tow with with any of the hard rock virtuosic players of the 70s. The two guitarists you listed are boring technicians. That doesn't make them better than Corgan.

[redbreegull]

I was listening to the Pisces bonus disc and realized the bass line in Translucent is pretty good and adds a lot to the song. Especially in the chorus after he sings "I hear my heart break every day..." and then the bass part sort of takes on the "voice" of the song where you would usually expect the guitars to do so. Maybe in the old mix of Translucent the bass was lower?

[crabshack]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

Billy Corgan could go tow to tow with with any of the hard rock virtuosic players of the 70s.

Hi Monte

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by crabshack

Hi Monte

yo I really don't care how bad the new music is or what an asshole Billy Corgan is, I can't abide this shitting on his guitar skills. The guy is fucking good.

[slunken]

hi guys whats up

[slunken]

I just wanted to say that after owning MCIS and Machina on 3 different formats (vinyl, cd, and tape) with a great stereo system, the tapes sound the clearest and cleanest. I'm sure these are just mastering issues but wasn't most of Billy's studio material during this time originally tracked to tape? it would make sense that a tape format would be the best sounding format for this work. You have to master differently for every format.

[Versac]

in red blue green
in red blue green