mayfuck: I hope you and your bitch go to hell...

Tessellation · 10-31-2002, 08:18 PM

you heard me, you fucking wetback turd...

Mayfuck · 10-31-2002, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Enisled
stupidity tries...

Mhm.

patrick · 10-31-2002, 08:23 PM

what you are, tessellation, is a gay faggot queer.

Tessellation · 10-31-2002, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by failure
what you are, tessellation, is a gay faggot queer.

spoken like a true survivor of the Burbank public school system...

tear stained glass · 10-31-2002, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by failure
what you are, tessellation, is a gay faggot queer.

Oh, so pots really do call kettles black.

patrick · 10-31-2002, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tessellation

spoken like a true survivor of the Burbank public school system...

it's called irony, sir.

Smiley33 · 10-31-2002, 10:07 PM

SOMEONE PM THE MODS: TESTICLATION CLEARLY JUST MAKE A DEATH THREAT DIRECTED TOWARD JULIO AND SUZE.

frail_and_bedazzled · 10-31-2002, 10:16 PM

what does public school have to do with anything? intelligence is intelligence, regardless of how many times you lick your dad's nutsack.

Squashing Pineapples · 10-31-2002, 10:43 PM

Suze can burn in hell, but not Julio...

shaniqua · 10-31-2002, 10:48 PM

not cool.

ZERO · 10-31-2002, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Smiley33
SOMEONE PM THE MODS: TESTICLATION CLEARLY JUST MAKE A DEATH THREAT DIRECTED TOWARD JULIO AND SUZE.

haha!

Tessellation · 10-31-2002, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Squashing Pineapples
Suze can burn in hell

Samsa · 11-01-2002, 12:22 AM

i don't believe in hell.

mpp · 11-01-2002, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Samsa
i don't believe in hell.

it's going to be quite the shocker

damn i mean think about it: that would be some bad shit

11-01-2002, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Samsa
i don't believe in hell.

what's the jewish afterlife for sinners?

Samsa · 11-01-2002, 12:35 AM

very interesting question. i should seriously find some like official thing for you because it's very confusing.

1) there are many different sects and strains of belief, ie no dogma whatsoever. there are some jews who believe in hell, some don't, and some who don't believe in an afterlife at all

the traditional and most common (i guess eastern european) jewish belief about the afterlife that evolved is that nobody goes to hell forever. or something. like the most evil man only stays in hell for 12 months and the most pure person only stays there for a day. or something. or i guess the most pure people just acend to heaven without even going. except i think hell is more like purgatory. hm hm hm. lemme find a source.

Samsa · 11-01-2002, 12:39 AM

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/judaism/FAQ/06-Jewish-Thought/

Subject: Question 12.8: What do Jews say happens when a person dies? Do Jews
believe in reincarnation? In hell or heaven?

Answer:

[Note that this description is derived mostly from the Zohar, a 12th
century work that evolved from the mystical writings of R' Shim'on bar
Yochai (2nd century). The Zohar is the central writing of Kabbalah.]

In general, and in contrast to some other religions, in day-to-day
life Jews don't pay much attention to questions like this. The focus
of Jewish life is living according to G-d's will as expressed in the
Torah. What happens afterwards is up to G-d.

That said, traditional Judaism does address this question. To put it
shortly, our beliefs in resurection and afterlife vary widely. Some
believe it is part of the Messianic era. Some consider it an era of
its own, after the messianic one. It's a matter of debate in Jewish
tradition as to whether the post resurection life is permanent, or
temporary. Nachamides believes that the ultimate reward, the "World to
Come" is that post-resurrection life, and therefore it must be
eternal. Maimonides opines that the ultimate reward is the relatively
direct experience of G-d that a soul can have when not encumbered with
a body and its desires. Therefore he understands the phrase "World to
Come" to refer to the non-physical existance after life, and that's
man ultimate reward. He returns to that reward after a second,
resurrected life. This is because Maimonides believes it's because man
can only face his judgement in the same condition as when he sinned.
Since he sinned while in a body, he is returned to that body to be
judged. R' Yosef Albo agrees with Maimonides that the post
resurrection life isn't permanent. To be specific, he believes that
the lifespan will be 1,000 years -- the length of time Adam would have
lived after eating from the forbidden fruit (had he not given away 70
years for someone else). His reason for this second life, though, is
very different. Albo writes in the Ikkarim (Fundamentals) that in this
life, man masters the art of self-perfection in the face of adversity
-- disease, threat of poverty, and everything else that could go wrong
in life. In the next life, the only challenges are internal, there
will be no external impediments. It's therefore a second step in
personal development, allowing for more refinement in one's ability to
enjoy the World to Come upon return. In the early 20th century, Rabbi
Abraham Isaac Kook (cheif Rabbi of British Mandate Palestine) wrote
that the resurection occurs by the end of the illusion that separates
this universe from heaven.

Now, for the more mystical explanation. Keep in mind that there are
dissenting viewpoints, though this is the dominant one.

A living person consists of both body and soul. Both are complex in
structure and this short answer can't possibly address the details. To
summarize briefly, when the body dies, if the person merits it, a
small portion of the soul remains with it to keep it connected with
the soul's source, anticipating the general revival of the dead at the
time that G-d decrees. Different parts of the remainder of the soul
may go to different places. One might be reincarnated into a new body
in an attempt to rectify another of its spiritual aspects, or for
other purposes. One part might go to a level of Paradise. Another
might go to Gehinnom for a period, to remove the sins of that life and
prepare it for a future one. Another part might join temporarily with
an already living person, to assist it with its rectification and in
the process gather more merit. The reassignments of the soul continues
until the time that G-d decrees.

Rabbinic afterlife teachings varied in different places and times, and
was never synthesized into one coherent philosophy. As such, the
different descriptions of the afterlife are not always consistent with
each other. This is especially true for the descriptions of "Olam
Haba", the world to come. In some rabbinic works this phrase refers to
the messianic era, a physical realm right here on Earth. However, in
other works this phrase means Gan Edan, Paradise (in Heaven, so to
speak), a purely spiritual realm. At various points in the afterlife
journey, the soul is said to encounter:
* Hibbut ha-kever, the pains of the grave
* Dumah, the angel of silence
* The angel of death
* The Kaf ha-Kela, the catapult of the soul
* Gehenna (purgatory) and Gan Eden (Heaven; Paradise)

A discussion of the classic rabbinic view of the afterlife, including
these topics and more, can be found in an essay by Rabbi Zalman
Schacter Shalomi called "Life in the hereafter: A tour of what's to
come", found at [5]http://www.elevated.fsnet.co.uk/index-page13.html.

Gehenna is fairly well defined in rabbinic literature. It is sometimes
translated as "hell", but Jews must take note that the Christian
version of hell is different from the Jewish view of Gehenna. Some
Christians believe that hell is an abode of eternal torment where
sinners go, and is also for anyone who does not accept Jesus as their
messiah and G-d. Other Christians believe Hell is a place of
separation from G-d (which, for Christians, is torture enough), from
which believers are eventually saved by Jesus. Roman Catholics believe
that Hell is a place of eternal suffering--physical, mental and
spiritual suffering. In the Roman Catholic view of Hell, the physical
pain is constant and severe; but the worst torture of Hell is the
knowledge that they will never see G-d and that they will remain in
Hell for eternity. For Roman Catholics, Hell is permanent and eternal.
For Roman Catholics, the soul that has deliberately and knowingly
disobeyed G-d's commandments in life and that remains in a state of
mortal sin upon death has through it's own free will damned itself to
Hell for all eternity. Roman Catholics also have the notion of
Purgatory, which is for souls that are truly repentant, but not in the
state of grace upon death. Purgatory is similar to Hell in that there
is physical suffering, the Roman Catholic belief is that the soul will
return to G-d when it is purged of its sins. Purgatory can last a day
or thousands of years depending on the amount of purging the
individual soul requires.

However, for Jews, gehenna--while certainly a terribly unpleasant
place--is not hell. The majority of rabbinic thought maintains that
people are not tortured in hell forever; the longest that one can be
there is said to be 12 months. It is a spiritual forge where the soul
is purified for its eventual ascent to Gan Eden [Heaven], and where
all imperfections are purged. [In this sense, it is somewhat similar
to the Roman Catholic purgatory, however the time period has a
definate maximum]. Gehennom (lit: the valley of Hinnom, in Jerusalem;
i.e. hell) is the sinner's experience in the afterlife. In other
words, it's the same "place" as gan eiden (lit: the garden of Eden;
i.e. heaven) -- it's the perspective of the individual that makes it
one or the other.

In some descriptions of the afterlife, we find that beyond Gan Eden
there is a little known realm called the otzar, the divine treasury of
souls; this is also called the tzror ha-hayyim, the bundle of life.
This otzar is a transcendent realm of human souls, in the highest
spheres of creation. Before souls are born they are said to come from
this treasury, and they return they at some point after death.

Souls are said to originate in a realm called the 'guf' (Avodah Zarah
5a, Nedarim 13b, Yevamot 62a), from which they descend to the earthly
real to animate human bodies. After death, these souls return to the
otzar, or tzror ha-hayyim. (Shabbat 152a; Pesikta Rabbati 2:3)

According to the Kabbalah [Jewish mysticism] every human has at least
one element in their soul; with the proper study a person can
eventually develop two higher levels of the soul. A common way of
explaining the three parts of the soul is as follows:
1. Nefesh - the lower part, or animal part, of the soul. Is linked to
instincts and bodily cravings.
2. Ruach - the middle soul, the spirit. It contains the moral virtues
and the ability to distinguish between good and evil.
3. Neshamah - the higher soul, or super-soul. This separates man from
all other lifeforms. It is related to the intellect, and allows
man to enjoy and benefit from the afterlife. This part of the soul
is provided both to Jew and non-Jew alike at birth. It allows one
to have some awareness of the existence and presence of G-d.
The "Raaya Meheimna," a later addition to the Zohar, posits that
there are in fact two more parts of the human soul, the chayyah
and yehidah. These parts were considered to represent the
sublimest levels of intuitive cognition, and were only within the
grasp of very few individuals.
4. Chayyah - The part of the soul that allows one to have an
awareness of the divine life force itself.
5. Yehidad - the highest plane of the soul, in which one can achieve
as full a union with G-d as is possible.

According to the Zohar, after death each aspect of the soul undergoes
a different experience on the afterlife journey. The lower levels of
the soul are purified and purged of physical and emotional
attachments, while the higher levels experience transcendental bliss.
The nefesh temporarily remains with the body in the grave, undergoing
the Hibbut Ha-Kever, the suffering of the grave. Simultaneously, the
Ruach experiences Gehenna for 12 months. "Gehenna is conceived of as a
purification process in which the psychic remnants from the previous
life are purged and transformed. This purgation process lasts only
twelve months and is tormentingly painful in direct proportion to each
individual's lived life experience. [Simcha Paull-Rapahel ] After
leaving Gehenna, the ruah then permanently enters the Lower Gan Eden.

After death the Neshama, since it not subject to being tainted by sin,
goes to Gan Eden Elyon, the Upper Gan Eden, where it experiences
divine reward and bliss. The hayyah and yehidah also return to Upper
Gan Eden immediately after death, and become as one with G-d as is
possible. "Those who have awakened these dimensions of their being are
able to perceive the infinite grandeur of the divine realms, to enter
the everflowing celestial stream - described by the Zoha as the
"bundle of life". [Paull-Rapahel]

Given all this, what happens to the soul of the nonbeliever? The most
common belief in contemporary traditional Jewish communities is that
all souls go to the after-life. Nearly all, barring a handful or two
in all of human history, eventually end up in Gan Eden (roughly:
heaven), even non-believers. Maimonides (a medieval Jewish thinker)
opined that non-believers cease to exist upon death. His reasoning was
that the ability to exist eternally is G-d's, and is only acquired by
the soul to the extent that the soul knows of, and therefore shares
some of the form of, G-d. This opinion was more popular in the midevil
period, but no longer captures much attention, since around the early
19th century. At that time, the Chassidic and Mussar movements
influenced Orthodox thought. The Aristotilian influence of the
medieval thinkers like Maimonides faded in favor of other, equally
old, approaches to the problem. All of these notions have roots in the
Talmud (our earliest written rabbinic texts) and earlier. It is just a
matter of which approach to G-d from within that tradition people
follow. [Note: While you may have heard of Chassidim, there are few if
any Mussarists left post-WWII. It was an Orthodox movement based on
personality improvement and stressed the inter-personal commandments.]

11-01-2002, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Samsa
very interesting question. i should seriously find some like official thing for you because it's very confusing.

1) there are many different sects and strains of belief, ie no dogma whatsoever. there are some jews who believe in hell, some don't, and some who don't believe in an afterlife at all

the traditional and most common (i guess eastern european) jewish belief about the afterlife that evolved is that nobody goes to hell forever. or something. like the most evil man only stays in hell for 12 months and the most pure person only stays there for a day. or something. or i guess the most pure people just acend to heaven without even going. except i think hell is more like purgatory. hm hm hm. lemme find a source.

you mean if become Jewish I get to go to heaven in any way? sweet!

but that's why I dig having a somewhat Roman Catholic beliefs, it has things clearly sectioned into GOOD and EVIL which makes life a heck of alot simpler.

Samsa · 11-01-2002, 12:50 AM

i guess i can't really imagine any one evil enough to deserve an eternity of suffering. i think i'm way too easy on people :-/ i like the idea in catholocism that all you have to do is repent and you get to go to purgatory. it's nice. makes me happy for tim mcveigh

11-01-2002, 12:53 AM

I just read that whole thing, really interesting, but it also serves to reinforce why Jewish religions give me a headache. very, very complex for me. Also, from a personal belief (being raised Catholc, natch) if there is an afterlife, I don't think it would really be just if everyone got into heaven.

I think I'm gonna go to heaven but not after some hardcore time in purgatory first. Main reason I like having a Roman Catholic ********** is because it simplfies religion into "spirituality for dummies!"

Samsa · 11-01-2002, 12:56 AM

well what i posted is really mystical and mostly believed by cabaalists i guess. most every day jews don't really think of it. actually i think the belief of most like un-mystical religious jews is that when you die you stay dead until the messiah comes, then your body rolls underground to jerusalem or mount sinai or i forget where, but your bones roll underground and you're judged and then i don't know what happens after you're judged yeah. heh that's why cremation is a no-no. cuz then your bones can't roll around underground.

11-01-2002, 01:02 AM

I find it odd that there's a major belief system that just doesn't think about the afterlife. When I was a kid in catholic school heaven and hell were concepts that were drilled into our heads practically daily. I always find contrasts between Judism and Catholism interesting because they start out fundamentally similar then diverge over that whole "messiah" point. In fact when you mentioned "when the messiah comes" my first thought was like "what? he was here, like, 2000 years ago."

But yeah, being catholic I can't be cremated either cuz we believe in the resurection of the body at the end of the world. Which really sucks cuz I don't wanna be worm food, dammit!

Samsa · 11-01-2002, 01:08 AM

eh the divergence is mostly around the material world. like christians basically say that this world is shit and there's another world out there that is more importnat, u know like plato says or whatever, and jews basically just focus on this world and this life. for whatever reason. like the high holy days don't really even center around heaven/hell they just center around like your sins and asking forgiveness and god 'inscribing you in the book of life' which basically means god letting you *live* another year. yeah it's interesting i guess. i had something else to say but i forget. *scratches head*

oh yeah. gnosticism. i still don't understand gnosticism but it is very weird and interesting omar sorta showed it to me. apparently there's like a christian gnosticism and a jewish gnosticism. omar gave me a christian gnosticism website

http://www.gnosis.org/gnintro.htm

it's just very weird. they say that the god people worship is a 'false' god or like an 'inferior' god and that there's a greater god out there beyond our comprehension or something.

13 · 11-01-2002, 03:31 AM

1. WHAT IS A GNOSTIC CHRISTIAN?

Gnostic Christianity is a Way of Life based on the original teachings of Jesus Christ. A gnostic is a person who believes that salvation is gained through the acquisition of divine knowledge or gnosis. Gnostic Christians believe that the knowledge necessary for salvation has been revealed through Jesus Christ. Gnostics recognize that this world is subject to powers of darkness that distort our concept of reality. As Jesus explained, "The shadows of this world are perceived by mortals, and they think they know the Truth, but the Reality which casts the shadows is hidden from them, and they do not perceive the Light." (Sayings 2:2)

When gnostics speak of salvation, they mean being freed from these illusions of darkness so that they can perceive Reality. As Jesus said, "I tell you the truth when I say that only when you perceive shadows as shadows, and search the Light, will you perceive the Reality which is God." (IBID.) He also said, "If you continue to acquire gnosis through me and live by the principles I teach, you will be my true disciples. Then you will learn of Truth, and Truth will set you free." (Testimony of St. John 8:31-32)

While Jesus used symbolic parables to motivate his hearers to search for the knowledge of Truth, he privately entrusted to his disciples gnosis, experiential knowledge which they could share only with those who became their fellow disciples. On one occasion, Jesus said to his disciples,

It is your privilege to learn the mysteries of the realm of the Eloheim because you have entered the Covenant," Jesus replied, "but to those who remain outside the Covenant, Truth can be shown only in parables. This is because they live in a world of illusions and shadows where Truth is hidden from them. Only the shadow of Truth can reach them until they reject the lie and come into the Covenant of Light." *** In this way, Jesus used many parables to point their minds to the word, for the parables were all they were able to receive, but through the parables, some of them would have their minds opened and would begin to perceive the Inner Truth. When he was alone with his disciples, however, Jesus expounded these principles, unfolding before their minds greater Light and carrying them deeper into the mysteries of the spiritual realm. (Testimony of St. Mark 4:10-11, 26-27)

2. ACCORDING TO JESUS' TEACHINGS, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF MORTAL EXISTENCE?

Jesus said, "Mortals have been created to dwell in the Garden of Delights. All else is death. Find that Garden where the Parents have placed the Fountain of Love, and you shall live forever in bliss." (Sayings 2:11)

3. HOW CAN I FIND THIS GARDEN OF DELIGHTS?

Concerning the Garden of Delights, Jesus said, "In Jehovah's Garden stands the holy Tree of Life. High in its branches sings a Bird. Listen for the voice of the Bird, for when you are properly aligned with heaven and earth, she will tell you all things.

This bird or dove is also called Sophia, the Holy Spirit, or the Comforter. (cf. Testimony of St. John 1:31) Jesus said, "When the Comforter has come, whom I will send to you, she will lead you into all Truth." (Sayings 3:5)

4. HOW CAN I RECEIVE THE COMFORTER?

At the Feast of Pentecost following the ascension of Jesus to the heavenly realm, St. Peter the Apostle addressed a congregation of Jews gathered in Jerusalem. During the course of his remarks, he said,

Each of you must change your manner of life and be immersed in the name of Jesus Christ, for the reversal of the effects of the illusion of separateness. Then you will receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts of the Apostles 2:38)

The Gift of the Holy Spirit or the Comforter can be received only by those who have changed their manner of life to conform to principles of Truth and been immersed.

5. WHAT IS THE NATURE OF CHANGE OF LIFE?

To change your manner of life means beginning to follow the Way Jesus taught, which is to apply principles of Truth in making your decisions. Jesus said,

You must put off your love of the lie, the false way of life followed by the children of this plane of existence, and be converted, changed so that you hate that which you have previously loved, and love that which you have previously hated. Then I will be able to show you all things, for there is nothing hidden which will not be manifested when you have put on the mind of Truth. (Sayings 1:11)

On another occasion, Jesus said, "Your minds must be cleared of the falsehoods of this realm if you are to be taught Eternal Truth." (Sayings 1:4)

Jesus referred to the experience of awakening to the falsehoods or illusions of mortal existence, realizing that they are misleading shadows of the Reality which is the realm of the Eloheim, as being born again. (cf. Sayings 2:2) To Nicodemus he said, "Unless a person is born again, he cannot see the realm of the Eloheim." (Testimony of St. John 3:3) Obviously, Jesus' concept of being born again was to have your mind opened to see the reality behind the shadows, which reality he called the realm of the Eloheim. Only with this perception can you realize the necessity to change your manner of life from following the shadows to following the Light of Christ and the Way he reveals.

6. WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF IMMERSION?

True change of life is characterized not only by the forsaking of improper deeds, but replacing them with proper ones. St. John the Baptist declared, Change your manner of life, so that you do not perpetuate the wrongs you have been perpetrating. (Testimony of St. Matthew 3:35)

This change commences with immersion for the reversal of the effects of the illusion of separateness. (cf. Testimony of St. Mark 1:3; Testimony of St. Luke 3:3) When we say that immersion is for the reversal of the effects of the illusion of separateness, (cf. Acts of the Apostles 2:38) we mean that it washes away the effects of having followed the lie perpetrated by the gods of darkness that we are separate from one another, not all manifestations of the same Reality. It is a birth or resurrection into a new life in Christ, a life centered in following the Way of the Hidden Knowledge (gnosis) which he revealed. As St. Paul the Apostle explained it,

Don't you realize that each of us, who has been immersed into Jesus Christ, has been immersed into his death? 4When we are buried under the waters of immersion, we are being placed in the tomb with Jesus, so that we can start a new life when we are raised up from the water, just as Christ came alive again through the Light of the Father and Mother entering him. 5If we have been buried in the similitude of his death, we will also be lifted up to a new life in the similitude of his resurrection, 6for when we are immersed, the person we were is crucified with Jesus, so that our fallen nature is destroyed, and we cease to be slaves of darkness. (Epistle of St. Paul the Apostle to the Branch of the Body of Christ in Rome 6:3-6)

Through immersion, we manifest to Jesus our intent to begin a new life centered in him and the Way he has revealed. He, in turn, accepts us into this new life with the assurance that we need not carry the effects of our old life with us.

WHAT FOLLOWS IMMERSION AND THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?

The quest for knowledge never ends. When Mary of Bethany asked Jesus,

"Will the thirst for knowledge ever be quenched?" he replied, "When once you have drunk from the spring of knowledge, you will return again and again, for each time your thirst is satisfied, a new thirst will grow, greater than the first. The more you drink, the greater will be your desire to drink, but in the intensity of your desire, you will be filled. I tell you the truth when I say that whoever seeks will find, and the finding will cause him to seek, but in the seeking is hidden the meaning of Life." (Sayings 1:12)

Gnostic Christians have commenced following a Path of never ending increase in Knowledge, Enlightenment, Power, Peace, and every Divine Attribute. They are led along this Path by those disciples who have preceded them, a chain of initiates going back to Jesus himself. At the beginning of each month, these words of the Christ are read in the congregations of his gnostic disciples,

Constant renewal and constant rededication are the lifeblood of the Body of Christ. Change of life is the Eternal quest for radiant Light. Look up, my children. There are worlds of knowledge which do not even glimmer on your horizon. Universes are unfolding beyond your perception. Worlds being born, dying, being renewed in Light are your heritage. Come, my children; take your place among the stars. Let the Deity within you blaze up. Become in reality the Children of Light. Your beginning was in Light; your end no mortal knows, but the Path lies before you, for I, myself, have walked it as a mortal, and if you follow me, your Way will flow eternally through Endless Light and Truth. (Book of Covenants 1985-4:9)

Jesus' challenge to his disciple Nathaniel is equally pertinent to us today. "Don't fear the acquisition of knowledge, for that which you learn now will bless you in the life that is coming." (Sayings 3:6) He might have added that those blessings begin when we enter the Way, for it is a new life filled with the Power and Peace of the Eloheim through the gifts of Jesus Christ our Lord. As St. Paul described it,

When a person begins to live in Christ, he becomes a new person. All the old things that characterized him are gone, and everything becomes different, 18because he begins to develop within himself the divine nature of the Eloheim, who have reconciled us to the Gods through Jesus Christ. (Second Epistle of St. Paul the Apostle to the Branch of the Body of Christ in Corinth 5:17-18)

The Eloheim offer us every gift and power which they, themselves, possess. To receive these gifts, we must seek the hidden knowledge (gnosis) so that we can walk in the Way it unfolds before us. We, who are disciples of Jesus, hope to share with you this gnosis, so that you can join us in ascending the Path of the Eloheim and enter with us into the Garden of Delights to drink from the Fountain of Love and live forever in bliss. (cf. Sayings 2:11)

10-31-2002, 08:18 PM	#1
Tessellation Apocalyptic Poster Location: your local library Posts: 4,417	mayfuck: I hope you and your bitch go to hell... you heard me, you fucking wetback turd...

11-01-2002, 03:31 AM	#24
13 Apocalyptic Poster Posts: 2,453	1. WHAT IS A GNOSTIC CHRISTIAN? Gnostic Christianity is a Way of Life based on the original teachings of Jesus Christ. A gnostic is a person who believes that salvation is gained through the acquisition of divine knowledge or gnosis. Gnostic Christians believe that the knowledge necessary for salvation has been revealed through Jesus Christ. Gnostics recognize that this world is subject to powers of darkness that distort our concept of reality. As Jesus explained, "The shadows of this world are perceived by mortals, and they think they know the Truth, but the Reality which casts the shadows is hidden from them, and they do not perceive the Light." (Sayings 2:2) When gnostics speak of salvation, they mean being freed from these illusions of darkness so that they can perceive Reality. As Jesus said, "I tell you the truth when I say that only when you perceive shadows as shadows, and search the Light, will you perceive the Reality which is God." (IBID.) He also said, "If you continue to acquire gnosis through me and live by the principles I teach, you will be my true disciples. Then you will learn of Truth, and Truth will set you free." (Testimony of St. John 8:31-32) While Jesus used symbolic parables to motivate his hearers to search for the knowledge of Truth, he privately entrusted to his disciples gnosis, experiential knowledge which they could share only with those who became their fellow disciples. On one occasion, Jesus said to his disciples, It is your privilege to learn the mysteries of the realm of the Eloheim because you have entered the Covenant," Jesus replied, "but to those who remain outside the Covenant, Truth can be shown only in parables. This is because they live in a world of illusions and shadows where Truth is hidden from them. Only the shadow of Truth can reach them until they reject the lie and come into the Covenant of Light." *** In this way, Jesus used many parables to point their minds to the word, for the parables were all they were able to receive, but through the parables, some of them would have their minds opened and would begin to perceive the Inner Truth. When he was alone with his disciples, however, Jesus expounded these principles, unfolding before their minds greater Light and carrying them deeper into the mysteries of the spiritual realm. (Testimony of St. Mark 4:10-11, 26-27) 2. ACCORDING TO JESUS' TEACHINGS, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF MORTAL EXISTENCE? Jesus said, "Mortals have been created to dwell in the Garden of Delights. All else is death. Find that Garden where the Parents have placed the Fountain of Love, and you shall live forever in bliss." (Sayings 2:11) 3. HOW CAN I FIND THIS GARDEN OF DELIGHTS? Concerning the Garden of Delights, Jesus said, "In Jehovah's Garden stands the holy Tree of Life. High in its branches sings a Bird. Listen for the voice of the Bird, for when you are properly aligned with heaven and earth, she will tell you all things. This bird or dove is also called Sophia, the Holy Spirit, or the Comforter. (cf. Testimony of St. John 1:31) Jesus said, "When the Comforter has come, whom I will send to you, she will lead you into all Truth." (Sayings 3:5) 4. HOW CAN I RECEIVE THE COMFORTER? At the Feast of Pentecost following the ascension of Jesus to the heavenly realm, St. Peter the Apostle addressed a congregation of Jews gathered in Jerusalem. During the course of his remarks, he said, Each of you must change your manner of life and be immersed in the name of Jesus Christ, for the reversal of the effects of the illusion of separateness. Then you will receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts of the Apostles 2:38) The Gift of the Holy Spirit or the Comforter can be received only by those who have changed their manner of life to conform to principles of Truth and been immersed. 5. WHAT IS THE NATURE OF CHANGE OF LIFE? To change your manner of life means beginning to follow the Way Jesus taught, which is to apply principles of Truth in making your decisions. Jesus said, You must put off your love of the lie, the false way of life followed by the children of this plane of existence, and be converted, changed so that you hate that which you have previously loved, and love that which you have previously hated. Then I will be able to show you all things, for there is nothing hidden which will not be manifested when you have put on the mind of Truth. (Sayings 1:11) On another occasion, Jesus said, "Your minds must be cleared of the falsehoods of this realm if you are to be taught Eternal Truth." (Sayings 1:4) Jesus referred to the experience of awakening to the falsehoods or illusions of mortal existence, realizing that they are misleading shadows of the Reality which is the realm of the Eloheim, as being born again. (cf. Sayings 2:2) To Nicodemus he said, "Unless a person is born again, he cannot see the realm of the Eloheim." (Testimony of St. John 3:3) Obviously, Jesus' concept of being born again was to have your mind opened to see the reality behind the shadows, which reality he called the realm of the Eloheim. Only with this perception can you realize the necessity to change your manner of life from following the shadows to following the Light of Christ and the Way he reveals. 6. WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF IMMERSION? True change of life is characterized not only by the forsaking of improper deeds, but replacing them with proper ones. St. John the Baptist declared, Change your manner of life, so that you do not perpetuate the wrongs you have been perpetrating. (Testimony of St. Matthew 3:35) This change commences with immersion for the reversal of the effects of the illusion of separateness. (cf. Testimony of St. Mark 1:3; Testimony of St. Luke 3:3) When we say that immersion is for the reversal of the effects of the illusion of separateness, (cf. Acts of the Apostles 2:38) we mean that it washes away the effects of having followed the lie perpetrated by the gods of darkness that we are separate from one another, not all manifestations of the same Reality. It is a birth or resurrection into a new life in Christ, a life centered in following the Way of the Hidden Knowledge (gnosis) which he revealed. As St. Paul the Apostle explained it, Don't you realize that each of us, who has been immersed into Jesus Christ, has been immersed into his death? 4When we are buried under the waters of immersion, we are being placed in the tomb with Jesus, so that we can start a new life when we are raised up from the water, just as Christ came alive again through the Light of the Father and Mother entering him. 5If we have been buried in the similitude of his death, we will also be lifted up to a new life in the similitude of his resurrection, 6for when we are immersed, the person we were is crucified with Jesus, so that our fallen nature is destroyed, and we cease to be slaves of darkness. (Epistle of St. Paul the Apostle to the Branch of the Body of Christ in Rome 6:3-6) Through immersion, we manifest to Jesus our intent to begin a new life centered in him and the Way he has revealed. He, in turn, accepts us into this new life with the assurance that we need not carry the effects of our old life with us. WHAT FOLLOWS IMMERSION AND THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT? The quest for knowledge never ends. When Mary of Bethany asked Jesus, "Will the thirst for knowledge ever be quenched?" he replied, "When once you have drunk from the spring of knowledge, you will return again and again, for each time your thirst is satisfied, a new thirst will grow, greater than the first. The more you drink, the greater will be your desire to drink, but in the intensity of your desire, you will be filled. I tell you the truth when I say that whoever seeks will find, and the finding will cause him to seek, but in the seeking is hidden the meaning of Life." (Sayings 1:12) Gnostic Christians have commenced following a Path of never ending increase in Knowledge, Enlightenment, Power, Peace, and every Divine Attribute. They are led along this Path by those disciples who have preceded them, a chain of initiates going back to Jesus himself. At the beginning of each month, these words of the Christ are read in the congregations of his gnostic disciples, Constant renewal and constant rededication are the lifeblood of the Body of Christ. Change of life is the Eternal quest for radiant Light. Look up, my children. There are worlds of knowledge which do not even glimmer on your horizon. Universes are unfolding beyond your perception. Worlds being born, dying, being renewed in Light are your heritage. Come, my children; take your place among the stars. Let the Deity within you blaze up. Become in reality the Children of Light. Your beginning was in Light; your end no mortal knows, but the Path lies before you, for I, myself, have walked it as a mortal, and if you follow me, your Way will flow eternally through Endless Light and Truth. (Book of Covenants 1985-4:9) Jesus' challenge to his disciple Nathaniel is equally pertinent to us today. "Don't fear the acquisition of knowledge, for that which you learn now will bless you in the life that is coming." (Sayings 3:6) He might have added that those blessings begin when we enter the Way, for it is a new life filled with the Power and Peace of the Eloheim through the gifts of Jesus Christ our Lord. As St. Paul described it, When a person begins to live in Christ, he becomes a new person. All the old things that characterized him are gone, and everything becomes different, 18because he begins to develop within himself the divine nature of the Eloheim, who have reconciled us to the Gods through Jesus Christ. (Second Epistle of St. Paul the Apostle to the Branch of the Body of Christ in Corinth 5:17-18) The Eloheim offer us every gift and power which they, themselves, possess. To receive these gifts, we must seek the hidden knowledge (gnosis) so that we can walk in the Way it unfolds before us. We, who are disciples of Jesus, hope to share with you this gnosis, so that you can join us in ascending the Path of the Eloheim and enter with us into the Garden of Delights to drink from the Fountain of Love and live forever in bliss. (cf. Sayings 2:11) __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-31-2002, 08:23 PM	#3
patrick Minion of Satan Posts: 9,521	what you are, tessellation, is a gay faggot queer.

10-31-2002, 10:07 PM	#7
Smiley33 Minion of Satan Posts: 6,542	SOMEONE PM THE MODS: TESTICLATION CLEARLY JUST MAKE A DEATH THREAT DIRECTED TOWARD JULIO AND SUZE.

10-31-2002, 10:16 PM	#8
frail_and_bedazzled Ownz Location: lon guyland Posts: 880	what does public school have to do with anything? intelligence is intelligence, regardless of how many times you lick your dad's nutsack.

10-31-2002, 10:43 PM	#9
Squashing Pineapples Banned Location: I'm outta here! Posts: 2,774	Suze can burn in hell, but not Julio...

10-31-2002, 10:48 PM	#10
shaniqua Minion of Satan Location: that's my prerogative Posts: 7,419	not cool.

11-01-2002, 12:22 AM	#13
Samsa Banned Location: A theater near you Posts: 7,929	i don't believe in hell.

11-01-2002, 12:35 AM	#16
Samsa Banned Location: A theater near you Posts: 7,929	very interesting question. i should seriously find some like official thing for you because it's very confusing. 1) there are many different sects and strains of belief, ie no dogma whatsoever. there are some jews who believe in hell, some don't, and some who don't believe in an afterlife at all the traditional and most common (i guess eastern european) jewish belief about the afterlife that evolved is that nobody goes to hell forever. or something. like the most evil man only stays in hell for 12 months and the most pure person only stays there for a day. or something. or i guess the most pure people just acend to heaven without even going. except i think hell is more like purgatory. hm hm hm. lemme find a source.

11-01-2002, 12:39 AM	#17
Samsa Banned Location: A theater near you Posts: 7,929	http://www.faqs.org/faqs/judaism/FAQ/06-Jewish-Thought/ Subject: Question 12.8: What do Jews say happens when a person dies? Do Jews believe in reincarnation? In hell or heaven? Answer: [Note that this description is derived mostly from the Zohar, a 12th century work that evolved from the mystical writings of R' Shim'on bar Yochai (2nd century). The Zohar is the central writing of Kabbalah.] In general, and in contrast to some other religions, in day-to-day life Jews don't pay much attention to questions like this. The focus of Jewish life is living according to G-d's will as expressed in the Torah. What happens afterwards is up to G-d. That said, traditional Judaism does address this question. To put it shortly, our beliefs in resurection and afterlife vary widely. Some believe it is part of the Messianic era. Some consider it an era of its own, after the messianic one. It's a matter of debate in Jewish tradition as to whether the post resurection life is permanent, or temporary. Nachamides believes that the ultimate reward, the "World to Come" is that post-resurrection life, and therefore it must be eternal. Maimonides opines that the ultimate reward is the relatively direct experience of G-d that a soul can have when not encumbered with a body and its desires. Therefore he understands the phrase "World to Come" to refer to the non-physical existance after life, and that's man ultimate reward. He returns to that reward after a second, resurrected life. This is because Maimonides believes it's because man can only face his judgement in the same condition as when he sinned. Since he sinned while in a body, he is returned to that body to be judged. R' Yosef Albo agrees with Maimonides that the post resurrection life isn't permanent. To be specific, he believes that the lifespan will be 1,000 years -- the length of time Adam would have lived after eating from the forbidden fruit (had he not given away 70 years for someone else). His reason for this second life, though, is very different. Albo writes in the Ikkarim (Fundamentals) that in this life, man masters the art of self-perfection in the face of adversity -- disease, threat of poverty, and everything else that could go wrong in life. In the next life, the only challenges are internal, there will be no external impediments. It's therefore a second step in personal development, allowing for more refinement in one's ability to enjoy the World to Come upon return. In the early 20th century, Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook (cheif Rabbi of British Mandate Palestine) wrote that the resurection occurs by the end of the illusion that separates this universe from heaven. Now, for the more mystical explanation. Keep in mind that there are dissenting viewpoints, though this is the dominant one. A living person consists of both body and soul. Both are complex in structure and this short answer can't possibly address the details. To summarize briefly, when the body dies, if the person merits it, a small portion of the soul remains with it to keep it connected with the soul's source, anticipating the general revival of the dead at the time that G-d decrees. Different parts of the remainder of the soul may go to different places. One might be reincarnated into a new body in an attempt to rectify another of its spiritual aspects, or for other purposes. One part might go to a level of Paradise. Another might go to Gehinnom for a period, to remove the sins of that life and prepare it for a future one. Another part might join temporarily with an already living person, to assist it with its rectification and in the process gather more merit. The reassignments of the soul continues until the time that G-d decrees. Rabbinic afterlife teachings varied in different places and times, and was never synthesized into one coherent philosophy. As such, the different descriptions of the afterlife are not always consistent with each other. This is especially true for the descriptions of "Olam Haba", the world to come. In some rabbinic works this phrase refers to the messianic era, a physical realm right here on Earth. However, in other works this phrase means Gan Edan, Paradise (in Heaven, so to speak), a purely spiritual realm. At various points in the afterlife journey, the soul is said to encounter: * Hibbut ha-kever, the pains of the grave * Dumah, the angel of silence * The angel of death * The Kaf ha-Kela, the catapult of the soul * Gehenna (purgatory) and Gan Eden (Heaven; Paradise) A discussion of the classic rabbinic view of the afterlife, including these topics and more, can be found in an essay by Rabbi Zalman Schacter Shalomi called "Life in the hereafter: A tour of what's to come", found at [5]http://www.elevated.fsnet.co.uk/index-page13.html. Gehenna is fairly well defined in rabbinic literature. It is sometimes translated as "hell", but Jews must take note that the Christian version of hell is different from the Jewish view of Gehenna. Some Christians believe that hell is an abode of eternal torment where sinners go, and is also for anyone who does not accept Jesus as their messiah and G-d. Other Christians believe Hell is a place of separation from G-d (which, for Christians, is torture enough), from which believers are eventually saved by Jesus. Roman Catholics believe that Hell is a place of eternal suffering--physical, mental and spiritual suffering. In the Roman Catholic view of Hell, the physical pain is constant and severe; but the worst torture of Hell is the knowledge that they will never see G-d and that they will remain in Hell for eternity. For Roman Catholics, Hell is permanent and eternal. For Roman Catholics, the soul that has deliberately and knowingly disobeyed G-d's commandments in life and that remains in a state of mortal sin upon death has through it's own free will damned itself to Hell for all eternity. Roman Catholics also have the notion of Purgatory, which is for souls that are truly repentant, but not in the state of grace upon death. Purgatory is similar to Hell in that there is physical suffering, the Roman Catholic belief is that the soul will return to G-d when it is purged of its sins. Purgatory can last a day or thousands of years depending on the amount of purging the individual soul requires. However, for Jews, gehenna--while certainly a terribly unpleasant place--is not hell. The majority of rabbinic thought maintains that people are not tortured in hell forever; the longest that one can be there is said to be 12 months. It is a spiritual forge where the soul is purified for its eventual ascent to Gan Eden [Heaven], and where all imperfections are purged. [In this sense, it is somewhat similar to the Roman Catholic purgatory, however the time period has a definate maximum]. Gehennom (lit: the valley of Hinnom, in Jerusalem; i.e. hell) is the sinner's experience in the afterlife. In other words, it's the same "place" as gan eiden (lit: the garden of Eden; i.e. heaven) -- it's the perspective of the individual that makes it one or the other. In some descriptions of the afterlife, we find that beyond Gan Eden there is a little known realm called the otzar, the divine treasury of souls; this is also called the tzror ha-hayyim, the bundle of life. This otzar is a transcendent realm of human souls, in the highest spheres of creation. Before souls are born they are said to come from this treasury, and they return they at some point after death. Souls are said to originate in a realm called the 'guf' (Avodah Zarah 5a, Nedarim 13b, Yevamot 62a), from which they descend to the earthly real to animate human bodies. After death, these souls return to the otzar, or tzror ha-hayyim. (Shabbat 152a; Pesikta Rabbati 2:3) According to the Kabbalah [Jewish mysticism] every human has at least one element in their soul; with the proper study a person can eventually develop two higher levels of the soul. A common way of explaining the three parts of the soul is as follows: 1. Nefesh - the lower part, or animal part, of the soul. Is linked to instincts and bodily cravings. 2. Ruach - the middle soul, the spirit. It contains the moral virtues and the ability to distinguish between good and evil. 3. Neshamah - the higher soul, or super-soul. This separates man from all other lifeforms. It is related to the intellect, and allows man to enjoy and benefit from the afterlife. This part of the soul is provided both to Jew and non-Jew alike at birth. It allows one to have some awareness of the existence and presence of G-d. The "Raaya Meheimna," a later addition to the Zohar, posits that there are in fact two more parts of the human soul, the chayyah and yehidah. These parts were considered to represent the sublimest levels of intuitive cognition, and were only within the grasp of very few individuals. 4. Chayyah - The part of the soul that allows one to have an awareness of the divine life force itself. 5. Yehidad - the highest plane of the soul, in which one can achieve as full a union with G-d as is possible. According to the Zohar, after death each aspect of the soul undergoes a different experience on the afterlife journey. The lower levels of the soul are purified and purged of physical and emotional attachments, while the higher levels experience transcendental bliss. The nefesh temporarily remains with the body in the grave, undergoing the Hibbut Ha-Kever, the suffering of the grave. Simultaneously, the Ruach experiences Gehenna for 12 months. "Gehenna is conceived of as a purification process in which the psychic remnants from the previous life are purged and transformed. This purgation process lasts only twelve months and is tormentingly painful in direct proportion to each individual's lived life experience. [Simcha Paull-Rapahel ] After leaving Gehenna, the ruah then permanently enters the Lower Gan Eden. After death the Neshama, since it not subject to being tainted by sin, goes to Gan Eden Elyon, the Upper Gan Eden, where it experiences divine reward and bliss. The hayyah and yehidah also return to Upper Gan Eden immediately after death, and become as one with G-d as is possible. "Those who have awakened these dimensions of their being are able to perceive the infinite grandeur of the divine realms, to enter the everflowing celestial stream - described by the Zoha as the "bundle of life". [Paull-Rapahel] Given all this, what happens to the soul of the nonbeliever? The most common belief in contemporary traditional Jewish communities is that all souls go to the after-life. Nearly all, barring a handful or two in all of human history, eventually end up in Gan Eden (roughly: heaven), even non-believers. Maimonides (a medieval Jewish thinker) opined that non-believers cease to exist upon death. His reasoning was that the ability to exist eternally is G-d's, and is only acquired by the soul to the extent that the soul knows of, and therefore shares some of the form of, G-d. This opinion was more popular in the midevil period, but no longer captures much attention, since around the early 19th century. At that time, the Chassidic and Mussar movements influenced Orthodox thought. The Aristotilian influence of the medieval thinkers like Maimonides faded in favor of other, equally old, approaches to the problem. All of these notions have roots in the Talmud (our earliest written rabbinic texts) and earlier. It is just a matter of which approach to G-d from within that tradition people follow. [Note: While you may have heard of Chassidim, there are few if any Mussarists left post-WWII. It was an Orthodox movement based on personality improvement and stressed the inter-personal commandments.]

11-01-2002, 12:50 AM	#19
Samsa Banned Location: A theater near you Posts: 7,929	i guess i can't really imagine any one evil enough to deserve an eternity of suffering. i think i'm way too easy on people :-/ i like the idea in catholocism that all you have to do is repent and you get to go to purgatory. it's nice. makes me happy for tim mcveigh

11-01-2002, 12:53 AM	#20
Ugly Posts: n/a	I just read that whole thing, really interesting, but it also serves to reinforce why Jewish religions give me a headache. very, very complex for me. Also, from a personal belief (being raised Catholc, natch) if there is an afterlife, I don't think it would really be just if everyone got into heaven. I think I'm gonna go to heaven but not after some hardcore time in purgatory first. Main reason I like having a Roman Catholic ********** is because it simplfies religion into "spirituality for dummies!"

11-01-2002, 12:56 AM	#21
Samsa Banned Location: A theater near you Posts: 7,929	well what i posted is really mystical and mostly believed by cabaalists i guess. most every day jews don't really think of it. actually i think the belief of most like un-mystical religious jews is that when you die you stay dead until the messiah comes, then your body rolls underground to jerusalem or mount sinai or i forget where, but your bones roll underground and you're judged and then i don't know what happens after you're judged yeah. heh that's why cremation is a no-no. cuz then your bones can't roll around underground.

11-01-2002, 01:02 AM	#22
Ugly Posts: n/a	I find it odd that there's a major belief system that just doesn't think about the afterlife. When I was a kid in catholic school heaven and hell were concepts that were drilled into our heads practically daily. I always find contrasts between Judism and Catholism interesting because they start out fundamentally similar then diverge over that whole "messiah" point. In fact when you mentioned "when the messiah comes" my first thought was like "what? he was here, like, 2000 years ago." But yeah, being catholic I can't be cremated either cuz we believe in the resurection of the body at the end of the world. Which really sucks cuz I don't wanna be worm food, dammit!

11-01-2002, 01:08 AM	#23
Samsa Banned Location: A theater near you Posts: 7,929	eh the divergence is mostly around the material world. like christians basically say that this world is shit and there's another world out there that is more importnat, u know like plato says or whatever, and jews basically just focus on this world and this life. for whatever reason. like the high holy days don't really even center around heaven/hell they just center around like your sins and asking forgiveness and god 'inscribing you in the book of life' which basically means god letting you live another year. yeah it's interesting i guess. i had something else to say but i forget. scratches head oh yeah. gnosticism. i still don't understand gnosticism but it is very weird and interesting omar sorta showed it to me. apparently there's like a christian gnosticism and a jewish gnosticism. omar gave me a christian gnosticism website http://www.gnosis.org/gnintro.htm it's just very weird. they say that the god people worship is a 'false' god or like an 'inferior' god and that there's a greater god out there beyond our comprehension or something.