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09-16-2008, 09:00 PM | #1 |
Immortal
Location: like liutenant dan i'm rollin'
Posts: 21,016
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hey guys remember no more government bailouts
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09-16-2008, 10:23 PM | #2 |
has great self of steam.
Location: SECRET OBAMA FUCKDEN RENDEZVOUS
Posts: 24,305
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Ugh.
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09-16-2008, 11:14 PM | #3 |
*****
Posts: 15,731
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This was to be expected.
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09-17-2008, 08:06 AM | #4 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,559
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Free market always decides in America! Hahaha.
Governments bailing out corporations?! That's socialism! |
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09-17-2008, 08:21 AM | #5 |
Netphoria's George Will
Location: Fenway Park
Posts: 37,109
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The government had no choice - AIG is the largest corporation in the world of its kind. It greatly trumps Lehman and Bear Sterns in size, power and influence.
If AIG would have gone under, several developing nations could have easily collapsed. |
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09-17-2008, 09:05 AM | #6 |
Boardcaster
Location: reporting live
Posts: 3,854
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Fuck AIG! I bailed on their car insurance because it was so friggen expensive, and now they're going to get my money as a taxpayer because they screwed up? I understand that the mortgage crisis has made things difficult for a lot of businesses, but what happened to diversification and not having all (or most) of your eggs in one basket?
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09-17-2008, 11:57 AM | #7 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: yeah seriously i think we've more than established a consensus on reality, it's not that abstract.
Posts: 3,454
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09-17-2008, 12:01 PM | #8 |
Immortal
Posts: 20,964
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09-17-2008, 12:49 PM | #9 |
Netphoria's George Will
Location: Fenway Park
Posts: 37,109
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AIG's demise would've hurt the world economy worse than the U.S.'s, probably.
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09-17-2008, 05:08 PM | #10 |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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Who cares? We need to remember this is a free market, and you don't get a guaranteed profit.
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09-17-2008, 06:48 PM | #11 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,753
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09-17-2008, 07:18 PM | #12 |
ghost
Location: @SactoMacto
Posts: 12,201
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newsflash: this is not a free market.
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09-17-2008, 07:50 PM | #13 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,652
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if it is good for the overall economy then the 'bailout' will repay itself.
Anyone disagree with that logic? |
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09-17-2008, 08:24 PM | #14 | |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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Quote:
It's good for the economy... but is it good or fair for you? And how come some businesses get the right to take huge risks and fail knowing the taxpayers will bail them out? These bailouts are more deficit spending. There's no win in adding to the national debt to help out people who ran their businesses like idiots. |
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09-17-2008, 08:55 PM | #15 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,652
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The people who 'ran the business' make millions regardless. The stockholders get screwed and it would of been a huge disruption to the entire economy.
I'm also suggesting that the bailout will not add to more deficit spending due to the stabilization of the economy and the financial rewards of that. I see what you are saying Nimrod but when the death of stupid companies hurts a whole lot more than the company and the economy is not equipped to absorb another disaster like that then their can be some just cause for the government to help. I know you will disagree because you categorically disagree with taxation being forced on you to pay for programs. So we will leave it there. Anyone else? |
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09-17-2008, 10:34 PM | #16 | |
ghost
Location: @SactoMacto
Posts: 12,201
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Quote:
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09-17-2008, 11:20 PM | #17 |
Netphoria's George Will
Location: Fenway Park
Posts: 37,109
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Yeah, Mike, no offense but you're really off on that tangent there.
AIG's bailout, if anything, is a deficit-dwindling motive and something to bolster the struggling overseas (read: volatile) markets. |
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09-18-2008, 11:13 AM | #18 | |
ghost
Location: @SactoMacto
Posts: 12,201
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AIG is in trouble from Credit Default Swaps and I finally found a very clear analogy from Econospeak:
Quote:
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09-18-2008, 12:31 PM | #19 | |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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Quote:
We keep hearing how these companies are "too big to fail." Well fuck, I guess they got so fucking big because the government failed in regulations, right? This latest $85B bailout will cost taxpayers $800 each. Hey, now where's my tax stimulus check? |
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09-18-2008, 12:32 PM | #20 | |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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Quote:
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09-18-2008, 01:06 PM | #21 |
ghost
Location: @SactoMacto
Posts: 12,201
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How can you not? I'm no expert, but if the head of the fed and all the experts are telling us we need to save AIG in order to prevent a catastrophy, then I'm inclined to agree unless compelling evidence tells me otherwise. It's fucked up that it has come to this and reforms and regulation must come in to prevent this situation again...but letting the disaster happen is not reform. Remember these bailouts are being carried out by a people who would otherwise be free marketers. If what they see scares them enough to go against their core public ideology, then that speaks volumes. Just like that old saying that "there are no atheists in foxholes", there are no free markters in a financial crisis.
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09-18-2008, 01:07 PM | #22 |
ghost
Location: @SactoMacto
Posts: 12,201
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At least there may be a silver lining with the AIG bailout. In that if AIG gets it shit together and has an orderly sell off of assets and should be able to pay back the loan, the U.S. should actually make a decent profit from it since they are charging a loan shark rate for this bailout.
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09-18-2008, 01:08 PM | #23 |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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I'm of the opinion that they're protecting the wealthy, and growing the power of government.
The US Government now owns the two largest mortgage lenders/buyers and one of the largest insurance companies. |
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09-18-2008, 01:11 PM | #24 | |
Netphoria's George Will
Location: Fenway Park
Posts: 37,109
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Quote:
The issue is with the cause, and getting it under control. The tax "rebate" checks, lack of oversight rules, etc. all were the leading factors. And anyone who says anything is immune to failure is moronic. |
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09-18-2008, 01:13 PM | #25 | |
Netphoria's George Will
Location: Fenway Park
Posts: 37,109
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Quote:
The bailout of AIG protects the wealthy to save the poor, if that makes sense. If AIG fails, millions of small business would have immediately defaulted. Government bailouts are awful, like so many other issues. Sometimes, unfortunately, it can be justified. |
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09-18-2008, 01:27 PM | #26 |
ghost
Location: @SactoMacto
Posts: 12,201
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Fannie and Freddie were originally government agencies in the first place. They were privatized in the late 60's(?) and now that they have been run to the ground, the government is now forced to take them back completely. People can say that we are taking over or "Nationalizing" fannie and freddie, but it would be more telling to say we are "de-privatizing" them.
To nimrod's point, it would be nice if we could enact laws that would somehow exempt the CEO's of these companies from benefitting from the bailouts. The people that ran these companies off a cliff should not be rewarded. Take away their golden parachutes. Last edited by Debaser : 09-18-2008 at 01:33 PM. |
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09-18-2008, 01:47 PM | #27 |
Netphoria's George Will
Location: Fenway Park
Posts: 37,109
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No one but CEOs and boards would disagree with that.
Oh, and maybe Mike Huckabee. |
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09-18-2008, 01:49 PM | #28 |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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It's just that once again, although I didn't make dumb purchases or greedy investments, I have to bail out the fuckers that did. We need to end the bailouts, even if it hurts the economy in the short term.
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09-19-2008, 10:19 AM | #29 |
NO FATS
Location: NO FEMS
Posts: 29,003
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Meanwhile
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13579.html The stock market swoons, home prices fall, job losses mount. But the president does not want to talk about it. Not really. And he certainly does not want to take any questions about it. He has not taken any questions on anything since Aug. 6. On Wednesday his press secretary, Dana Perino, explained why. “If you guys [i.e., reporters] had him in here, almost everything would be geared towards the election, and he is cognizant of that,” Perino said. “I mean, every time that I would think about maybe having a press conference, the news of the day would be such that we might be talking about lipstick on a pig, and the president is just not going to get involved in it.” In other words, the president is not going to get involved with restoring public confidence in our financial system because he is afraid somebody might ask him a question about politics. And because he doesn’t want to talk about politics (and why doesn’t he, considering he is supporting John McCain?), he won’t talk about anything. -------------------------------------------------- What. The. Fuck. |
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09-19-2008, 01:22 PM | #30 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,753
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You must be living in a different United States of America than I am, because last I heard the economy was a matter of days away from a complete collapse according to the nation's leading economists. That is not short term.
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