where the hell is this new album?

[houseofglass11]

Never really understood the hate that WWMM gets. It sounds like it could be a MSotS outtake. I like the chorus and guitar harmonies.

[inkless]

i like wwmm

but i prefer spirit in the ky version for the violin
same to freak

[smashingjj]

Originally Posted by brothahi4L

Fuck it. Man. Thats Dutch not german you koffer.
Noone says arsch mit ohren. It exists, but you wont offend anyone with that.
Do never use the google translator mein amerikanisches behindikind

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by brothahi4L

Fuck it. Man. Thats Dutch not german you koffer.
Noone says arsch mit ohren. It exists, but you wont offend anyone with that.
Do never use the google translator mein amerikanisches behindikind

pavementtune is german
she was talking to smashingjj, who is dutch.

[eviltimeban]

Annie-Dog is pretty unlistenable, mostly due to the vocals. But is it the worst song? Probably not. But it's a terrible recording, 100% due to the vocals.

Never cared for Shame. Perhaps I need to revisit.

Wouldn't be a fan of Tales of A Scorched Earth or XYU. Or an Ode to No One. I rarely, if ever, let those tracks play when I'm listening to MCIS.

As for SP 2 - Run2Me is the worst.

[Zer0 Hour]

I'm sorry, but absolutely NOTHING about WWMM makes me think of Mellon Collie, not even the b-sides or the stuff Billy left on the cutting room floor.

I agree about Annie Dog and Shame. They're okay songs, but two of my least favorites off of Adore. I think I would love Shame if the chorus (Sha-sha-sha-shame) wasn't there; it's just so cheesy.

But you don't like An Ode to No One? Man, I thought everybody loved that song. XYU and TOASE have always seemed really popular in most circles too.

[pavementtune]

To dislike Shame seems to be quite popular. I never understood it, I love that song. maybe because I heard it live before I heard it on the album, it's wonderful to my ears, including the shshshshshame.





the video is worth watching simply for people crowd surfing during Shame, of all songs...

[themadcaplaughs]

Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour

Examining MTAE and Teargarden and trying to figure out which is worse takes more time than either "album" is worth. Both have a few good (or maybe just okay) songs but the majority of material on both is just garbage. Though I would probably say that Window Wank My Mind and Asshole Planes are in the running for Worst Pumpkins Songs of All Time.

Curious, what would each of you rank as Billy's worst song? I would probably say one of those two or "All Things Change" off of TFE. God I hate that shit song.

1. Quasar
2. Astral Planes
3. Heavy Metal Machine
4. Run2Me
5. Because You Are

[Zer0 Hour]

Wow, I get that Quasar is unpopular, but worse than Astral Planes? Damn.

[Zer0 Hour]

Originally Posted by pavementtune

To dislike Shame seems to be quite popular. I never understood it, I love that song. maybe because I heard it live before I heard it on the album, it's wonderful to my ears, including the shshshshshame.





the video is worth watching simply for people crowd surfing during Shame, of all songs...

I feel like Shame is so close to being a great song, if it wasn't for that chorus. I really enjoy the "love is good and love is kind" part towards the end. Also, crowdsurfing to Shame is pretty funny.

[themadcaplaughs]

Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour

Wow, I get that Quasar is unpopular, but worse than Astral Planes? Damn.

"Astral Planes" failed miserably, but I can at least appreciate the vibe Corgan attempted to chase; a '60s garage rock jam. "Quasar" shamelessly rips-off old Pumpkins moment with a D-level riff, one of the most boring vocal melodies of all time, and bullshit lyrics. If this had been on Zeitgeist, we could have at least enjoyed Jimmy's kick ass drumming, but Byrne's drums in this song sound like effects out of a Super Nintendo video game. His drum tone sounds weird on the whole album, but particularly egregious here. His drums sounded better (purely in terms of audio quality) on the first 10 TbK songs.

Byrne just seemed to lose energy as his time in the band continued. In 2009/2010, he was a far cry from Jimmy, but seemed to have the stamina and mixture of tight/loose playing that could eventually make him an adequate replacement. When the band started touring again in 2011, Byrne looked like he aged 10 years, and his playing deteriorated on old songs. By 2012/2013 he was making amateur mistakes in songs and, if my memory serves me, he was having to get cortisone shots before shows.

[Gooch]

I for one am terribly thrown off by the title, WWMM. I would be embarrassed to tell someone thats the name of the song I'm listening to. Its just weird.
And yeah other titles are weird too. But its too hippie shit weird for me.

[Zer0 Hour]

Originally Posted by themadcaplaughs

"Astral Planes" failed miserably, but I can at least appreciate the vibe Corgan attempted to chase; a '60s garage rock jam. "Quasar" shamelessly rips-off old Pumpkins moment with a D-level riff, one of the most boring vocal melodies of all time, and bullshit lyrics. If this had been on Zeitgeist, we could have at least enjoyed Jimmy's kick ass drumming, but Byrne's drums in this song sound like effects out of a Super Nintendo video game. His drum tone sounds weird on the whole album, but particularly egregious here. His drums sounded better (purely in terms of audio quality) on the first 10 TbK songs.

Byrne just seemed to lose energy as his time in the band continued. In 2009/2010, he was a far cry from Jimmy, but seemed to have the stamina and mixture of tight/loose playing that could eventually make him an adequate replacement. When the band started touring again in 2011, Byrne looked like he aged 10 years, and his playing deteriorated on old songs. By 2012/2013 he was making amateur mistakes in songs and, if my memory serves me, he was having to get cortisone shots before shows.

I can hear where you're coming from on this; Byrne is a massive downgrade from Jimmy, though to be fair, pretty much anyone is. The lyrics to Quasar are somewhere between bad and average, and the main riff is simplistic, but I guess I significantly reduced my expectations for Corgan as a songwriter after Zeitgeist. Although that album had moments where we could catch glimpses of the songwriter he used to be, we also had boring, lazy lines like "I fought with all my might, with light, bring the light" and "That's the way my love is, that's the way I care." Seriously, dude? If I was in a band and I brought those lyrics to the rest of the group, I'd be afraid I was going to get laughed at. At that point, any hope I had for the lyricist who gave us masterpieces like Mayonaise and Porcelina was pretty much dead.

And it's the same with the guitar work. I feel like Corgan intentionally writes lazy riffs about 75% of the time, and it's just something I've accepted. But I think the combination of the leads and the riffs in Quasar make it sound good. Or maybe it's just the production quality of that album. Because Bill's vocals sound much better to me there than they did on Zeitgeist or Teargarden or Solara.

[incubator]

Quasar probably sounds and feels great when you're in the band, in a rehearsal room, high, playing and feeling the thing.

Duhduuh! duhduuh! duhduuh! du du duh! duh!!

Listening to it is a bit boring though. and that's the story of Oceania

[incubator]

Originally Posted by themadcaplaughs

1. Quasar
2. Astral Planes
3. Heavy Metal Machine
4. Run2Me
5. Because You Are

Heavy Metal Machine fucking rules. It's the third best pumpkins song not the third worst you dolt

[Ihaguitar]

Heavy Metal Machine is ok because of Jimmy. There's a wealth of shitness post-2000 which would come higher on the shit list.

[Zer0 Hour]

God I hate Heavy Metal Machine. It starts out cool but then flushes itself down the fucking toilet the farther it goes. Even if I could put aside the garbage lyrics, Billy's voice on that "Let me die for rock'n'roll" chorus just sounds so frail and grating. I've tried to listen to give that song the benefit of the doubt but I just fucking hate it.

[Shadaloo]

There was a time when HMM got shit on left, right, up and down. It seems so harmless to me now.

I tried listening to Teagargle over the weekend again. Thoughts:

Song For A Son is quite good. Feels really heartfelt and earnest.
Astral Planes would have been killer if it wasn't 1/3 of a song repeated twice. Really like the guitar tones.
Widow Wake My Mind is embarrassing to listen to. Irritating on the ears. Cheesy. Just bad all around.
Stitch In Time is listenable but the synths are atrocious, a problem with most of these songs
Teargarden Theme's pretty unremarkable
The Fellowship still gives me an urge to go play Mega Man 5 and select Charge Man's train stage.
Freak sucks and goes nowhere
Tom Tom's really fucking good, probably one of Bill's better late-period songs
Spangled also sucks
Cottonwood Symphony's pretty but not much else
Lightning Strikes is meandering and thoroughly forgettable
Owata also belongs in the embarrassing category

My personal top 5 worst would probably be, in order of increasing suckage:

5. Anti-Hero
4. Owata
3. Dorian
2. Run2Me
1. Widow Wake My Mind

[smashingjj]

I'm quite happy with HMM being my personal worst SP song of all time, I don't want to ruin that by listening to all those songs

[Zer0 Hour]

Originally Posted by smashingjj

I'm quite happy with HMM being my personal worst SP song of all time, I don't want to ruin that by listening to all those songs

Hahaha

Yeah I remember listening to Machina for the first time. It went something like this:

The Everlasting Gaze - "Man, I love this fucking song! So glad they are rocking again!"

Raindrops + Sunshowers - "Huh. That was a little weird. But okay."

Stand Inside Your Love - "Okay, that was alright. Kinda light, but good."

I of the Mourning - "Huh. Lyrics are kinda shitty but the guitar solo was cool. But why the fuck does he keep saying 'radio' over and over again?"

The Sacred and Profane - "Ummm..."

Try, Try, Try - "Uh oh. This sounds really... poppy. Hmmm, next song is called 'Heavy Metal Machine'. That sounds cool. Let's skip ahead to that one."

Heavy Metal Machine - "Okay, cool intro. Huh. Alright, these lyrics suck. But it sounds okay. Wait, what the fuck is this chorus? Oh shit."

This Time - "Eh."

The Imploding Voice - "Oh, fuck you Billy. I've been waiting since Mellon Collie for THIS? THIS is how you return to rock music?"

Glass and the Ghost Children - "Okay, this one has potential. Alright I'm digging it. Maybe... OH WAIT WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS, A THERAPY SESSION IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SONG? Jesus Christ. This is embarrassing."

Wound - "His voice is making my fucking ears bleed. God, could he BE more nasal?"

The Crying Tree of Mercury - "What in the fucking actual fuck is this unholy fucking mess. Fuck."

With Every Light - "Zzzzzz..."

Blue Skies Bring Tears: "I'm so depressed right now. And not in the way I want to be depressed by a Pumpkins album."

Age of Innocence - "Fuck you, Billy. Fuck you forever."



Now I'll admit, some of those songs have grown on me over the years; Age of Innocence and This Time are actually pretty good. But man, I'll never forget how disappointed and infuriated I was after hearing that album for the first time.

[PuzzledMuzzle]

Shame is top tier Adore, and beats a lot of the stuff on TAFH.

[Zer0 Hour]

If I was ranking the songs on Adore, I'd probably go with:

1. Tear
2. Pug
3. Crestfallen
4. For Martha
5. Behold!
6. Ava Adore
7. Dusty & Pistol Pete
8. Once Upon a Time
9. Perfect
10. Appels + Oranjes
11. Shame
12. To Sheila
13. Blank Page
14. Daphne Descends
15. Annie Dog
16. 17

[houseofglass11]

Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour

I'm sorry, but absolutely NOTHING about WWMM makes me think of Mellon Collie, not even the b-sides or the stuff Billy left on the cutting room floor. .

I said MSotS, not MCIS.

Also Shame is one of the best songs on Adore. Really an emotional high point of the album dealing with the absence of Jimmy.

[houseofglass11]

You had some weird reactions to Machina zerohour, dare I say untr00. Machina owns.

[Shadaloo]

I wouldn't say they were uncommon though. I recall a lot of people being really down on it when it came out because of the production style, and MII was seen as this straightforward breath of fresh air.

I think I let it sit for a good two years before I revisited it and things started to click for me. Now I love it but at the time it was a great big "meh".

[Zer0 Hour]

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

I said MSotS, not MCIS.

Also Shame is one of the best songs on Adore. Really an emotional high point of the album dealing with the absence of Jimmy.

Fuck I totally read that as MCIS. LOL. Yeah, I could see what you mean there; there are some similarities to Zwan.

[Zer0 Hour]

Originally Posted by Shadaloo

I wouldn't say they were uncommon though. I recall a lot of people being really down on it when it came out because of the production style, and MII was seen as this straightforward breath of fresh air.

I think I let it sit for a good two years before I revisited it and things started to click for me. Now I love it but at the time it was a great big "meh".

Yeah, if I recall correctly, Machina sold really well the first week or two of release, and then the sales fell off a cliff. I think a lot of people (ones I knew at least) were really excited about the album until they heard it. From there, the reactions were somewhere between hating it and just being "meh" about the whole thing.

And we all had similar reactions to MII; mostly we were all like "Why didn't they put THESE songs on the first Machina album?"

I'm not trying to speak for all fans of course, just the ones I knew.

[FoolofaTook]

Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour

12. To Sheila

are you on pcp?

[incubator]

Machina was like finding out Santa Claus doesn’t exist.

I love it now but at the time it was terrible. I’m surprised that the record company released it

[Zer0 Hour]

Originally Posted by incubator

Machina was like finding out Santa Claus doesn’t exist.

I love it now but at the time it was terrible. I’m surprised that the record company released it

That's actually a great way of putting it. Especially after hearing TEG on the radio (which isn't the best SP song but it rocks pretty hard) and then listening to the rest of the album. It felt like a bait and switch.