Netphoria Message Board


Go Back   Netphoria Message Board > General Boards > Music News and Discussion
Register Netphoria's Amazon.com Link Members List Photo Album Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-12-2016, 01:58 PM   #271
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: WILD BOY
Posts: 30,069
Default

Hey girls and guys with acoustics

so I played this really, really, REALLY nice sounding Taylor, a 214CE I believe. It's like 900 bucks and the tone is so warm and gentle, yet it has perfect attack. Really balanced sounding, and projects almost like it's plugged in. Anyway, so then I figured out that it has a fucking laminate back. My old acoustic was solid wood and it was cheaper. The sales guy tried to convince me that the laminate backing actually is what makes the projection and attack so perfectly balanced but I am unconvinced. Conventional wisdom tells me no one should buy a 900 dollar guitar without a solid back. What do you d00dz think? Is this a legit concern or is the solid wood obsession a pretentious purists thing?

 
redbreegull is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2016, 02:10 PM   #272
crabshack
Apocalyptic Poster
 
crabshack's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,177
Default

Hey RBG are you any good at fingerpicking? I'm trying to learn the motor skills to do it fluidly. Any tips? I can do a 5-2-3 (thumb, middle, index) pretty well and am trying to learn 5-2-4-3 (thumb, middle, thumb, index), those numbers being the strings.

 
crabshack is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2016, 04:01 PM   #273
Disco King
Minion of Satan
 
Disco King's Avatar
 
Location: Banned
Posts: 5,877
Default

I know nothing when it comes to guitar quality and sound. I just buy cheap used shit from Craigslist and as long as it isn't a suspicious $40 "First Act" or "Crescent" guitar, I'll take it.

 
Disco King is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2016, 04:35 PM   #274
Elphenor
Braindead
 
Elphenor's Avatar
 
Location: Shivers
Posts: 15,221
Default

Punk Rock

 
Elphenor is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2016, 04:48 PM   #275
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: WILD BOY
Posts: 30,069
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crabshack View Post
Hey RBG are you any good at fingerpicking? I'm trying to learn the motor skills to do it fluidly. Any tips? I can do a 5-2-3 (thumb, middle, index) pretty well and am trying to learn 5-2-4-3 (thumb, middle, thumb, index), those numbers being the strings.
I do some fingerpicking but I'm probably not the best guy to ask for any sort of guitar advice cause I've learned everything kind of just over many years through my own trial and error and limited actual teaching or proper learning. I mostly just fingerpick with thumb and first two fingers which I know is not "correct" but it sounds fine. I think what you call 5-2-3 is how you pick Tonight, Tonight, which was my introduction to fingerpicking.

one of my biggest influences is Paul Simon, and his fingerpicking is all over the place. sometimes his picking pattern changes chord to chord and he works in tons of little melodies within the pattern. It becomes intuitive after awhile, but it's hard to explain how. I'm sorry I can't give better advice. Just learn a lot of fingerpicking songs, take them slow, and pay attention to how your different fingers perform different functions (your thumb kind of keeps a bass line in a lot of fingerpicking for example). If you're fairly new to fingerpicking, one song I might suggest is the original version of Landslide. The chords are very simple but the picking will give your hand a good work out. Your thumb will be very active and you'll get a good cramp there for sure. There's probably a name for different kinds of fingerpicking, but this song also is a good example of something I like a lot, which is that in each measure your fingers start on the outside (highest and lowest) strings and then work their way into the middle.

 
redbreegull is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2016, 06:26 PM   #276
crabshack
Apocalyptic Poster
 
crabshack's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,177
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
It becomes intuitive after awhile, but it's hard to explain how.
(your thumb kind of keeps a bass line in a lot of fingerpicking for example).
Yea this is what everyone says. I'm anxious to be able to pull of hammer-ons and stuff like that within the patterns, like how you mentioned Paul Simon does. Dylan does that too. I just keep mindlessly practicing over chord changes while watching TV.

 
crabshack is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2016, 08:52 PM   #277
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: WILD BOY
Posts: 30,069
Default

yeah I'm sorry to just repeat the same dumb thing everyone else says, I know how frustrating that is. This might seem incredibly obvious but for some reason it wasn't to me for a long time: when you are practicing something you are having trouble with, isolate the exact thing you are getting tripped up on, and just do that thing over and over. Even if it's just one measure with a hammer on, just play that a fuck ton of times. Often a lot of players tend to hit a troublesome spot and jump back to the beginning of the verse or whatever, but I would break it into as small a piece as possible.

Hammer ons are about precision and strength and the only way to improve that is just to exercise your fingers by doing it over and over and over. When you start to get good at hammer ons, it kind of opens up this whole new economy of movement on the guitar because you can do much more with less work.

 
redbreegull is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2016, 09:00 PM   #278
Elphenor
Braindead
 
Elphenor's Avatar
 
Location: Shivers
Posts: 15,221
Default

I remember when I first started playing I thought solos were played with all these complex scales you'd have to memorize

But it's really simple patterns played with a lot of tricks like hammer on and vibrato

 
Elphenor is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2016, 10:09 PM   #279
buzzard
Minion of Satan
 
buzzard's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,344
Default

I think the Catalinbread dude died.

 
buzzard is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2016, 12:10 AM   #280
The Omega Concern
Banned
 
Location: stay, far, away
Posts: 8,997
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
I don't really understand how to play electric guitar anymore at all. I just always feel like my tone is shit and not what I am trying for at all. I have some pedals and I'm playing a nice strat through a nice Peavey tube amp. I dunno. Just never sounds good to me. Thank god for acoustic guitars I guess



ewwww...Peavey?

 
The Omega Concern is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2016, 12:13 AM   #281
The Omega Concern
Banned
 
Location: stay, far, away
Posts: 8,997
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
Hey girls and guys with acoustics

so I played this really, really, REALLY nice sounding Taylor, a 214CE I believe. It's like 900 bucks and the tone is so warm and gentle, yet it has perfect attack. Really balanced sounding, and projects almost like it's plugged in. Anyway, so then I figured out that it has a fucking laminate back. My old acoustic was solid wood and it was cheaper. The sales guy tried to convince me that the laminate backing actually is what makes the projection and attack so perfectly balanced but I am unconvinced. Conventional wisdom tells me no one should buy a 900 dollar guitar without a solid back. What do you d00dz think? Is this a legit concern or is the solid wood obsession a pretentious purists thing?


I would guess the Harmony-Central forums and/or reviews might clear that up a bit. Taylor is a solid brand, that's a good start. All concerns are legitimate at $900.

 
The Omega Concern is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2016, 12:25 AM   #282
The Omega Concern
Banned
 
Location: stay, far, away
Posts: 8,997
Default

My buddy Paul kinda messing around. He played in Act IV once with Analogue. I needed a soundcheck one day for this Q2HD handy-video recorder from Zcom. Very nice little recorder with an amazing mic. For open air recordings, nothing beats it for the price.




 
The Omega Concern is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2016, 12:36 AM   #283
Disco King
Minion of Satan
 
Disco King's Avatar
 
Location: Banned
Posts: 5,877
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elphenor View Post
I remember when I first started playing I thought solos were played with all these complex scales you'd have to memorize

But it's really simple patterns played with a lot of tricks like hammer on and vibrato
Well it depends on the solo and what scale you wanna use, I suppose. A large chunk of rock and pop solos are built off the minor pentatonic scale, so a lot of people just kinda learn those patterns. If you want to build solos off of other scales, I suppose you'd learn those ones.

It's hard for me to memorize scale shapes, and sometimes I'll have them all down only to forget them again after a while of not playing. I mostly just play in modes of the pentatonic and major scales, but I've been planning on branching out to modes of the harmonic minor (similar to the natural minor, but with a sharpened 7th... the parallel major would have a sharpened fifth in comparison to the regular major scale), and then some cool exotic scales. I like the sound of when I screw around in exotic scales, but I haven't committed any of them to memory because I don't want to confuse myself while I'm still trying to memorize the basics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard View Post
I think the Catalinbread dude died.
That's awful. I've never tried any of their pedals because I always stick to cheap stuff but a lot of them look good.

 
Disco King is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2016, 01:22 AM   #284
crabshack
Apocalyptic Poster
 
crabshack's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,177
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Omega Concern View Post
ewwww...Peavey?
Dogging Peavey is such an outdated tactic from the era of 'not fender or marshall' line of thinking.

 
crabshack is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2016, 01:24 AM   #285
crabshack
Apocalyptic Poster
 
crabshack's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,177
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Omega Concern View Post
My buddy Paul kinda messing around. He played in Act IV once with Analogue. I needed a soundcheck one day for this Q2HD handy-video recorder from Zcom. Very nice little recorder with an amazing mic. For open air recordings, nothing beats it for the price.



*Breaks into the same lick every single time after every pause*

 
crabshack is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2016, 03:02 AM   #286
The Omega Concern
Banned
 
Location: stay, far, away
Posts: 8,997
Default

DUDE...its a soundcheck. He'd been working on that riff at the time and since I was filming he wanted to flush it out in various modes. I posted it to emphasize this thing:



 
The Omega Concern is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2016, 03:09 AM   #287
crabshack
Apocalyptic Poster
 
crabshack's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,177
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Omega Concern View Post
ewwww...Peavey?

 
crabshack is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2016, 03:14 AM   #288
The Omega Concern
Banned
 
Location: stay, far, away
Posts: 8,997
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crabshack View Post
Dogging Peavey is such an outdated tactic from the era of 'not fender or marshall' line of thinking.

It depends on what you're going for, but the proof is in the pudding. When they tried to expand their market share with a classic series a couple years back, they immediately dropped in price 30% within months. Nobody was going to buy a Peavey for 2 grand when you could get any number of much better amps for that price.

 
The Omega Concern is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2016, 03:17 AM   #289
crabshack
Apocalyptic Poster
 
crabshack's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,177
Default

Peavey has been favored by country musicians since the 70s. It might not be steroid rock but it's pretty stupid to dismiss the line.

 
crabshack is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2016, 03:20 AM   #290
crabshack
Apocalyptic Poster
 
crabshack's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,177
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Omega Concern View Post
It depends on what you're going for, but the proof is in the pudding. When they tried to expand their market share with a classic series a couple years back, they immediately dropped in price 30% within months. Nobody was going to buy a Peavey for 2 grand when you could get any number of much better amps for that price.
Good for any brand not bending to contemporary "standards"

 
crabshack is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2016, 04:51 AM   #291
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: WILD BOY
Posts: 30,069
Default

yeah I play a lot of classic rock/country/folk type stuff so I thought the Peavey would be good. It's kind of brash sounding though and I have a lot of trouble getting it to cut through in a full band setting. I think I will sell it eventually and pick up a small Fender or something, there's just no reason I need a huge heavy amp anymore. I took it to my friend's apartment and almost died trying to get it through the lobby to the elevator

 
redbreegull is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2016, 10:11 AM   #292
Elphenor
Braindead
 
Elphenor's Avatar
 
Location: Shivers
Posts: 15,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco King View Post
Well it depends on the solo and what scale you wanna use, I suppose. A large chunk of rock and pop solos are built off the minor pentatonic scale, so a lot of people just kinda learn those patterns. If you want to build solos off of other scales, I suppose you'd learn those ones.

It's hard for me to memorize scale shapes, and sometimes I'll have them all down only to forget them again after a while of not playing. I mostly just play in modes of the pentatonic and major scales, but I've been planning on branching out to modes of the harmonic minor (similar to the natural minor, but with a sharpened 7th... the parallel major would have a sharpened fifth in comparison to the regular major scale), and then some cool exotic scales. I like the sound of when I screw around in exotic scales, but I haven't committed any of them to memory because I don't want to confuse myself while I'm still trying to memorize the basics.
Well I mean I figured you'd have to switch between a bunch of scales or something when really most of the time you don't, and even an exotic scale pattern isn't that difficult to memorize it's more about learning what to do within that scale

 
Elphenor is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2016, 10:14 AM   #293
Elphenor
Braindead
 
Elphenor's Avatar
 
Location: Shivers
Posts: 15,221
Default

I remember I learned the most prominent scale for Flamenco but it would take years to learn to play it properly, just knowing the notes isn't what makes it sound good

 
Elphenor is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2016, 05:27 PM   #294
buzzard
Minion of Satan
 
buzzard's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco King View Post
That's awful. I've never tried any of their pedals because I always stick to cheap stuff but a lot of them look good.
I believe we had already discussed this some years ago, but I do have the Semaphore and have always enjoyed it. Even without dialing in a tremelo effect, I've liked having it somewhere along the chain for a boost and to push through a sort of clarity when it's been preceded by a bunch of other pedals that have taken little chips out of the tone.

It was originally purchased almost purely for a love of the following song, though I'm actually not aware of whether the band used that specific pedal.


 
buzzard is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 02:48 PM   #295
soniclovenoize
Minion of Satan
 
soniclovenoize's Avatar
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 5,442
Default

Ooops I seemed to have gotten a new toy today.


 
soniclovenoize is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 09:24 PM   #296
teh b0lly!!1
Braindead
 
teh b0lly!!1's Avatar
 
Location: PROWLING THE BADLANDS
Posts: 15,926
Default

looks p cool!

 
teh b0lly!!1 is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2016, 10:08 AM   #297
slunken
Virgo
 
slunken's Avatar
 
Posts: 39,120
Default

We're a jeans band, dammit!

 
slunken is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2016, 04:12 PM   #298
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: WILD BOY
Posts: 30,069
Default

those amps are too science for my tastes

 
redbreegull is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2016, 04:28 PM   #299
he/she/it
Pledge
 
he/she/it's Avatar
 
Posts: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco King View Post
I know nothing when it comes to guitar quality and sound. I just buy cheap used shit from Craigslist and as long as it isn't a suspicious $40 "First Act" or "Crescent" guitar, I'll take it.
The reliable tone-building components in Billy's setups are EQ, compression, and boost / overdrive into an amp's own clean or high-gain sound.



I think that Billy's basic MCIS sound is this:

For cleans:

EQ -> maybe added clean boost pedal -> mild compression and additional boost from 3630 compressor -> clean channel JMP-1 -> (effects loop) sometimes with a quiet delay effect -> Strategy 500.

Billy's clean tones throughout SP don't come without using an EQ to finely raise or lower particular aspects of the whole sound. Amp EQ settings are usually pretty blunt, and I would use an amp's EQ to get generally as close to a decent sound as they can, and then really carve a good tone out using an EQ pedal or rack unit, starting with the high frequencies, and working towards the low end, moving each next slider to its max and min range, to hear what aspect that slider is contributing to the sound, and then finding its optimal placement.

There also could be an additional clean boost pedal after the EQ and before the Alesis 3630.



For distortion:

EQ -> MXR Distortion II -> mild compression and boost from Alesis 3630 compressor -> JMP-1 -> Strategy 500

The compression could also come before the DII, not sure.

I'm guessing on the MXR Distortion II, but that pedal has a distinct sound to it, and that's what it sounds to me is being used on MCIS, being run into high-gain from the JMP-1's distortion channels - and billy did use one on Siamese Dream for at least leads. I think the MXR Distortion II might almost be to MCIS what the Big Muff is to Siamese Dream.



Bullet With Butterfly Wings:
https://youtu.be/8-r-V0uK4u0
The intro riff sounds distinctly like an MXR Distortion II to me, for a guess I'd say possibly going EQ -> MXR Distortion II -> Alesis 3630 -> clean 2 channel of the JMP-1



MCIS demo Millieu:
https://youtu.be/Kyk8c0ybHgc

This sound is 2nd pickup selector placement on a Blue/Silver/Red Lace Sensor strat, going into EQ, into Alesis 3630 for boost and mild compression, into the second of the clean channels on the JMP-1. Having an EQ in the effects chain is essential to get this sound, rather than something that is murky, muffled, and dull by comparison.


Mild compression is important for Billy's plucky clean guitar sounds. Having no compression at all is often just unpleasant, making the apex of guitar notes thin, and makes string bends sort of whiny-sounding during high-gain leads. Though adding too much compression flattens the signal too much and takes away all the pristine chime-iness.

Some pedals, like the BOSS CS-3 squash the sound too much to get that kind of well-defined tone - though Billy has used a CS-3 compressor, it generally is an overly-squashy, loud noise compressor.

It sounds to me like the BOSS CS-3 is being used on the lead guitar in this MCIS night-time version demo from the 2012 MCIS reissue:
https://youtu.be/hp6NIjg7Kjg

I would not recommend a BOSS CS-3 for general compression needs, due to its excessive tone-squashing, and high noise level.

Last edited by he/she/it : 03-25-2016 at 11:44 PM.

 
he/she/it is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2016, 11:22 PM   #300
teh b0lly!!1
Braindead
 
teh b0lly!!1's Avatar
 
Location: PROWLING THE BADLANDS
Posts: 15,926
Default

this is great


 
teh b0lly!!1 is offline
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Google


Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pearl Jam Discussion Pretzel Logic Music News and Discussion 1251 03-10-2015 09:41 PM
can somebody explain okcupid to me Order 66 General Chat Message Board 410 06-17-2014 02:13 AM
New Matt Pinfield Interview iPumpkin Pumpkins Archive 61 11-25-2011 12:48 PM
OMG...the Billy article in RS. Rickpat12 Pumpkins Archive 595 09-07-2010 10:49 PM
stupid guitar gear question #593749582 ??? Music Board Archive 61 03-21-2009 03:49 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:17 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Smashing Pumpkins, Alternative Music
& General Discussion Message Board and Forums
www.netphoria.org - Copyright 1998-2014