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Old 01-18-2015, 10:04 PM   #121
Kid Mothman
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Slunken, you're my favorite poster on here. I'd love to see you do stand up.

The buzz amongst non-SP fans is "New SP music sucks, and Billy is crazy/an idiot."
The buzz amongst non-MM fans is "Smart dude." No music is mentioned.
People want to compliment Manson, and want to disparage Billy. It's just the narrative. I've heard multiple versions of these two perspectives over and over for years.

 
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Old 01-18-2015, 10:23 PM   #122
SensibleChuckle
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Slunken once gave emergency CPR to my dog

 
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Old 01-18-2015, 10:23 PM   #123
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I didnt ask him to do it, and the dog didnt need it, but its the thought that counts.

 
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Old 01-18-2015, 11:49 PM   #124
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I think to the American mainstream, both SP and Manson are considered Clinton-era obscurities. Manson gets a pass because he made his name on being controversial and threatening. Pumpkins were just known for their music and Corgan had these notions that he would be perceived as something other than a frontman for a rock band. So from the beginning, Corgan opening his mouth so often got him into trouble and alienated people. His appeal wasn't connected to his persona, even if he thought it was.

Add to that the fact that Manson has stuck to doing what he always did - his music has a narrower appeal than SP and is more musically monochrome. He never did things like "Cupid de Locke" or "Luna" or "Dusty and Pistol Pete"... he pretty much sticks to dark electro-metal with similar lyrical themes. So it's always been easier for a Manson fan to like his entire body of work, than it is for a Corgan fan to do the same.

Plus, Corgan stopped taking drugs in 2000 and his music has been a step down ever since. Manson has no problem being a booze and coke riddled loser.

 
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Old 01-19-2015, 01:54 PM   #125
LaBelle
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There's no shortage of angsty goth teens, so Marilyn Manson has a new batch of "fans" every new year when new people get to high school.

Billy Corgan on the other hand doesn't even know which audience he's trying to reach at all.

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 01:12 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toase View Post
because the pale emperor is a decent album
I just gave The Pale Emperor a listen last night based on a couple of nebulous answers Manson gave in that joint press conference with Bildo. It's not bad at all. In fact, it's pretty good. First Manson album I've been into. It's nice to see someone from the 90s heading in a different musical direction than he's been before, and managing to do it without throwing a temper tantrum.

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 11:40 AM   #127
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We can probably thank Tyler Bates for that. He's basically credited for the music on the album, and now that he's split with Manson (amicably - just said he had a lot on his plate IIRC), I'd say signs point towards Manson being back to embarrassing himself in the studio for further outings.

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:43 PM   #128
toase
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaBelle View Post
There's no shortage of angsty goth teens, so Marilyn Manson has a new batch of "fans" every new year when new people get to high school.
Billy Corgan on the other hand doesn't even know which audience he's trying to reach at all.
pretty much, yeah
I can only imagine if instead of marilyn manson people were blaming billy for school shootings, that would be terrible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
We can probably thank Tyler Bates for that. He's basically credited for the music on the album, and now that he's split with Manson (amicably - just said he had a lot on his plate IIRC), I'd say signs point towards Manson being back to embarrassing himself in the studio for further outings.
Oh wow, billy needs to hire this guy

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:51 PM   #129
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he seems to be the busy (and busy with quality) kind of guy.

Belly making a phone call like he did with Tommy Lee, and maybe letting him listen to some MTAE songs likely wouldn't get a Tyler Bates on the plane. plus Belly seems to hire people to tell them what to do - not to actually work WITH someone.


Quote:
Tyler Bates is a Los Angeles-born composer who has scored sixty feature films, hundreds of episodes of television, and several major studio video games and artist records. Bates has more than twenty commercially released soundtrack albums

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 08:20 PM   #130
Araneae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
We can probably thank Tyler Bates for that. He's basically credited for the music on the album, and now that he's split with Manson (amicably - just said he had a lot on his plate IIRC), I'd say signs point towards Manson being back to embarrassing himself in the studio for further outings.
I actually really liked this album and I was really surprised by that...then I noticed that all of the songs, except for the lyrics I believe, were written entirely by Tyler Bates. Manson basically brought this guy in to write an album worth of songs for him, which was a very smart move since it put him back a bit of limelight and got people talking again. But yeah, without him I just foresee Manson going back to the same old habits. That new blood and perspective really helped. Which makes it all the more weirder that Billy keeps praising Manson and how this is his favorite and best record when Manson didn't even write it.

But as another poster mentioned, it also really helps that Manson knows his audience. Billy has no fucking clue.

But Billy will never do what Manson did, at least not for a writing credit. Billy never really collaborates with anyone. Even when it comes to producers he prefers people he can control or mold. I've come to realize how important those early SP years were in shaping the sound of SP1. The producers (Butch, Flood, and Moulder) and all those jam sessions they did as a band really benefitted those early songs. I'm certain now that James and D'Arcy brought a lot more to the table than Billy will ever admit to, and his insistence on continuously erasing or minimizing their contributions is tiresome (especially with his remarks on Mayo and Soma). This "fall from grace" so to speak is entirely Billy's doing. He wanted all the laurels and credit for success and now he can solely hold all the laurels and credit for its failure as well.

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 09:37 PM   #131
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Manson was always the artist and lyricist, he never claimed to be a musician.

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 10:17 PM   #132
Araneae
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Quote:
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Manson was always the artist and lyricist, he never claimed to be a musician.
Manson always had some writing credits on every previous album. All the early albums had songs that Manson contributed to, even more so for his later albums after most of his band left. I think Eat Me, Drink Me was entirely Manson and Skold and I think the Twiggy comeback album, The Highend of Low, was mainly Twiggy but Born Villain was all written by just Manson and Twiggy both writing the music.

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 10:21 PM   #133
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Manson can't play an instrument. He can't write the music on his own is what I mean.

 
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Old 05-21-2015, 12:15 AM   #134
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Pale Emperor is like the last two albums were never released. It feels like it is flowing from the 'Eat me, Drink me' sound

 
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