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Old 06-27-2019, 09:29 AM   #1
johncg
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Default Is MCIS era awesome or Billy’s self-indulgent bullshit embodied?

I’m serious. I’m really starting to wonder.

When I was younger MCIS seemed cool because it was my first exposure to alternative culture but the older I get the more his two hours of whiny singing about “porcelina,” “stumbleine,” and other nonsense seems like it was just an early warning sign of his excessively tasteless Oceania and Teargarden period tempered only by having cool people in the room (flood, D’Arcy, James) to rein him in.

Fight me.

 
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Old 06-27-2019, 09:50 AM   #2
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MCIS was Billy's self-indulgent bullshit somehow gradually but eventually becoming perfectly but briefly in tune with the zeitgeist (no pun intended) of the youth culture at that period of time, and then gradually fading away in his all-enveloping presence in the youth culture in the next period of time

 
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Old 06-27-2019, 09:50 AM   #3
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ok

 
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Old 06-27-2019, 10:03 AM   #4
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there was some crap that got released for sure, but the quality of the b-sides from tafh alone locks in this as overall an awesome era.

 
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Old 06-27-2019, 10:06 AM   #5
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Both at once

 
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Old 06-27-2019, 11:00 AM   #6
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Yeah, both.

 
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Old 06-27-2019, 11:06 AM   #7
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It didn't matter because the songs, the band, and the packaging of pretty much everything from 1991 - 1998, and arguably to 2000, was spot on. So he could get away with the "nonsense" as he had the music and melody to back it up. That and a cool band.

I was always a sucker for those one word titles, very cool in the 90s. I remember writing my own songs at that time and having all the titles before I wrote the actual songs. :-)

Oceania and Teargarden has tried to tap into that aesthetic, but I'm not sure it really works as it wasn't backed up with great songwriting (with some exceptions) or a cool band (SP was basically Billy + session musicians).

So either forego that approach and lose the old fans, or keep doing it and be accused of "not moving on".

I genuinely think Billy really does want to move on and have his new music accepted for what it is; it must be so hard to be chained to the past like that. Imagine you had done something you just did naturally about 25 years ago, and to this day people are still getting you to do it - you'd want to just move on from it, right?

Much as I'd love it to be the way it was, it won't be anymore.

 
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Old 06-27-2019, 12:35 PM   #8
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there's nothing stopping him from moving on. he can't have it both ways, but he acts like he can.

 
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Old 06-27-2019, 12:49 PM   #9
Mals Marola
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he was self-indulgent but for a "greater good"

writing songs that actually moved people and singing/performing in a way that really connected, often times with lyrics that were almost embarrassingly personal which took it up to even another notch

now he doesn't do any of that and is simply indulgent while also caring way too much about some pre-imposed "modern standards" regarding how all albums should sound, how long they should be, what kind of songs need to be on them, etc etc

so yeah, i'll take that MCIS style of indulgence any day

 
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Old 06-27-2019, 03:09 PM   #10
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It was self-indulgent, but good self-indulgence, like when you eat all of your birthday cake in one go.

SP2 is self-indulgent too, but not good self-indulgence; like when you shove four bags of crystal meth up your ass and snort coke while engaged in an orgy with under-age transvestites in a seedy motel as your harlem of wives videotape for posterity and pop poppers, not knowing that the cops are parked in the driveway and can see exactly what's going on through the flimsy curtains, leading to your arrest and eventual sexual violation in the slammer at the hands of a group of tattooed, homosexual Venezuelan gang members who simply hate sissy boys and, I quote,"don't take no shit".

Quote:
Originally Posted by eviltimeban View Post
I genuinely think Billy really does want to move on and have his new music accepted for what it is; it must be so hard to be chained to the past like that. Imagine you had done something you just did naturally about 25 years ago, and to this day people are still getting you to do it - you'd want to just move on from it, right?
But why did Billy pander to the masses and reunite the old guard? Because he has no dignity (or money left, allegedly). He must have no confidence in his music anymore.

 
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Old 06-27-2019, 04:57 PM   #11
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yeah i agree.

as some have already said in the thread, i think it probably hit a note with the youth of the time - for a short moment though, because it seems like within two years it was very uncool to like the pumpkins, and even more with time, until the legacy of the era just turned into a couple of big hits.

i don't really listen to SP anymore, but if i do, it's definitely not mcis. i don't think it aged that well honestly, and over the years i came to realise that it's just too many songs, moreso it kind of embodies that very cringy corgan grandiousness and over-the-topness of singing about nonsensical imaginary girls and angsty bullshit, which, in the light of his work and persona of the last 10 years, makes it age ever worse. it was a very bold move at the time to make such an album, but the success of it really boomeranged back into his head with every album he made onwards.

just to clarify, mcis has some great songs musically, and some that are great all round, that is when he isn't going too far off in his lyrical wankery (e.g muzzle), but i just don't find it as good as i once did.

 
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Old 06-27-2019, 05:45 PM   #12
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I think that when it worked it was spot on (Jellybelly, Muzzle, Porcelina, Galapogos, Bodies) but some of it hasn't aged well at all (WOCOAT, Beautiful, Ode to no one). It also has some pretty solid non-grandiose tracks like Love, 33, and 1979, which help make it more digestible.

 
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Old 06-27-2019, 06:04 PM   #13
Mals Marola
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"Ode to No One hasn't aged well"

don't call us, we'll call you!

 
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Old 06-27-2019, 07:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mals Marola View Post
"Ode to No One hasn't aged well"

don't call us, we'll call you!
i knew that opinion wouldn't be popular. but it sort of sounds like parody to me now. SORRY

 
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Old 06-27-2019, 08:07 PM   #15
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might be another unpopular opinion, but i feel like most of the b-sides from that era are solely better than most of the stuff on mcis itself

 
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Old 06-27-2019, 08:48 PM   #16
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The only MCIS song that is trash is Take Me Down. Though it did take me a long time to warm up to Love.

The rest, I still love.

 
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Old 06-27-2019, 09:07 PM   #17
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might be another unpopular opinion, but i feel like most of the b-sides from that era are solely better than most of the stuff on mcis itself
That makes total sense, because they’re so much less produced than the album tracks. They’re closer to raw band or solo takes, and there’s more variety, imperfection, and honesty.

 
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Old 06-27-2019, 09:17 PM   #18
House of Bread
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WOCOAT is fucking great...in fact, I think I love it more now than I did in the 90s.

 
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Old 06-27-2019, 10:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaFritz View Post
i knew that opinion wouldn't be popular. but it sort of sounds like parody to me now. SORRY
Nah for me i still get a big kick out of it, especially when i’m pissed

Like recently my dad was being a bigger cockhole than usual and i put on mcis and when it got to f u an ode omg i was headbangin snarlin along like i was teenaged again

Even as a full grown middle aged man with kids and a fat belly/ass, i continue to rely on the more aggressive trax like this to get it out sometimes

 
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Old 06-28-2019, 07:33 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpee View Post
That makes total sense, because they’re so much less produced than the album tracks. They’re closer to raw band or solo takes, and there’s more variety, imperfection, and honesty.
i dont think they wouldve fit well on mcis though in my mind, i dont see a spot for jerry of tafh on mcis by taking out two toher songs.

i wonder instead of releasing TAFH, they couldve streched some of that material into another album or two, but with billys life events at the time i kinda doubt it would've happened

 
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Old 06-28-2019, 08:29 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mals Marola View Post
"Ode to No One hasn't aged well"

don't call us, we'll call you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by House of Bread View Post
WOCOAT is fucking great...in fact, I think I love it more now than I did in the 90s.
Whatever, the theme of the thread is the thin line between MCIS being awesome or being over-indulgent. I think that 80% of the tracks remain good to me, but that some of them toe a bit too close to the line.

 
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Old 06-28-2019, 08:52 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modern90's View Post
i dont think they wouldve fit well on mcis though in my mind, i dont see a spot for jerry of tafh on mcis by taking out two toher songs.
i would take off:
cupid
take me down
wbftt
wocoan
lily

and add:
cherry
the boy
god
strtj
ugly

 
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Old 06-28-2019, 09:00 AM   #23
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Overindulgent? GTFO!!!!

I've said it again and I'll say it before: MICS should of been a seven disc album. Yeah, that's right. Seven. Fatherfucking. Discs.

1 & 2 MCIS
3 & 4 TAFH B-sides
5 & 6 Gravity Demos fully realized.
7 Live Ultimate Silverfuck. (73.8 minutes long)

 
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Old 06-28-2019, 09:20 AM   #24
eviltimeban
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trev View Post
i would take off:
cupid
wbftt
No way.

 
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Old 06-28-2019, 11:12 AM   #25
Mals Marola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
Overindulgent? GTFO!!!!

I've said it again and I'll say it before: MICS should of been a seven disc album. Yeah, that's right. Seven. Fatherfucking. Discs.

1 & 2 MCIS
3 & 4 TAFH B-sides
5 & 6 Gravity Demos fully realized.
7 Live Ultimate Silverfuck. (73.8 minutes long)
that woiulda been a cool alternate reissue, sure

 
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Old 06-28-2019, 12:53 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
Overindulgent? GTFO!!!!

I've said it again and I'll say it before: MICS should of been a seven disc album. Yeah, that's right. Seven. Fatherfucking. Discs.

1 & 2 MCIS
3 & 4 TAFH B-sides
5 & 6 Gravity Demos fully realized.
7 Live Ultimate Silverfuck. (73.8 minutes long)
This is the correct answer to the question posed itt

Can’t believe y’all dare to question the everlasting majesty of MCIS, what in the everloving fuck

 
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Old 06-28-2019, 12:57 PM   #27
trev
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
Overindulgent? GTFO!!!!

I've said it again and I'll say it before: MICS should of been a seven disc album. Yeah, that's right. Seven. Fatherfucking. Discs.

1 & 2 MCIS
3 & 4 TAFH B-sides
5 & 6 Gravity Demos fully realized.
7 Live Ultimate Silverfuck. (73.8 minutes long)
while i agree this would be awesome, half of the b-sides weren't fully written / recorded by the time mcis was released.

 
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Old 06-28-2019, 01:42 PM   #28
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That's what you think.

Actually the members of Boris wrote everything from the MCIS era around 1993.

 
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Old 06-28-2019, 02:44 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpee View Post
That makes total sense, because they’re so much less produced than the album tracks. They’re closer to raw band or solo takes, and there’s more variety, imperfection, and honesty.
+++ I have an album of all the Gravity demos [spring 94 stuff] that's all instrumental besides BWBW [which I deleted]

A while back, for a few weeks I basically had that whole thing on loop constantly. So many great little riffs. It's like SP without worrying about what the lyrics mean

Quote:
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Nah for me i still get a big kick out of it, especially when i’m pissed

Like recently my dad was being a bigger cockhole than usual and i put on mcis and when it got to f u an ode omg i was headbangin snarlin along like i was teenaged again

Even as a full grown middle aged man with kids and a fat belly/ass, i continue to rely on the more aggressive trax like this to get it out sometimes
this is the most badass video ever; i will die on this hill



never be the shine in your SPITspitspit

i need you baby cause i want you badly I LOVE YOU I LOVE YOU MADLY THERE'S NOTHING I WANT MOARE

also i'm 22 so i'm a cringy dumbass constantly. [for evidence, read any of my old posts]

 
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Old 06-28-2019, 08:18 PM   #30
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those machina tours were some of the best shows, right up there w/ siamese era.

 
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