i'm listening to zeitgeist for masochistic reasons

[bobliefeld]

If the whole thing didn't sound sub amateurish then it'd be the best nu SP record hands down no arguments.

[bobliefeld]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

ZG songs are good but MCIS is rubbish

u wot m8 X 100000000

I think MCIS songs are ok, pretty good. There's nothing technically wrong with any of it. I think it's a bit rubbish in that it's really obviously written to sell to teenagers.

Zeitgeist is similar / worse in that way though as Billy was quite open about coming out with a big dumb heavy album to regain his market share and show that SP has the skillset to be number 1.

[Ram27]

One of the things I don't like about BC/JC is that they act like there has to be a big business plan behind making music rather than just putting out a record for the truer motivations of making music

[bobliefeld]

To be fair I think it's necessary if you wanna get big. BC/JC are just a bit more open about their motivations than most guys.

[bobliefeld]

There's exceptions.

[fuzzyroes]

Yeah, these guys were cut-throat businessmen. You don't often reach the top of a corporate market like the record industry by doing things ethically and organically.

[bobliefeld]

I don't know about "business men".

[Elphenor]

I totally disagree.

MTV marketed them to teens like they did with all the alt. bands but he wasn't playing to the youth just to sell a bunch of records, it was more like he was writing an ode to all things youth as his was coming to an end

[bobliefeld]

I bet if someone straight up asked him he'd go on about identifying teens as his primary market and look real pleased with himself about it. He'd probably even start his answer with "well, as a business man.."

[Mals Marola]

yeah it's pretty clear most of the material on mcis was written with purer intentions than "selling records"

i mean come on - galapagos, set the ray (& the fact that they didn't even put it on the album?), cherry, stumbleine, by starlight

if any of that is for teens it's the ones who were "wise beyond their years" anyway. bullet & whatnot caught on but as catchy as a line like despite all my rage is etc. it's still a pretty genuine piece of recorded rage

[bobliefeld]

And nobody nowhere understands anything
About me and all my dreams

[bobliefeld]

Can't we talk about Zeitgeist ?

[Mals Marola]

sure which color

[bobliefeld]

Did anyone buy all colours ? Or even more than one?

[Mals Marola]

i am the proud owner of an original red & d-lux silver edition of the ZEIT

[pavementtune]

Originally Posted by bobliefeld

Did anyone buy all colours ? Or even more than one?

yea, I did. want to have them? they're in the $1 box in the basement, waiting for garage sale day.

[LaBelle]

Zeitgeist will go down in history as the high point of The Smashing Pumpkins reunion era.

[pavementtune]

because it was the only "reunion" album before SP became a one-man band?

[LaBelle]

Originally Posted by pavementtune

because it was the only "reunion" album before SP became a one-man band?

No, because it is the most solid collection of songs Billy put together under the Pumpkins name after the break up.

[Elphenor]

It will go down in history as one of the worst albums ever released by a popular band

It's terrible

[LaBelle]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

It will go down in history as one of the worst albums ever released by a popular band

It's terrible

Yeah, but have you heard the shit that succeeded it?

[Elphenor]

Oash is better, TBK is better

MTAE is almost as bad

[LaBelle]

I disagree, but then again choosing between these albums is a world's tallest midget situation.

[Elphenor]

ZG vocals are just disgusting

[LaBelle]

Yeah, but I think Zeitgeist could be OK if it was better produced.
Which is more than I can say for what came after.

[dodoz]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

It will go down in history as one of the worst albums ever released by a popular band

It's terrible

There are many horrible albums released by popular bands...

"Zeitgeist" is not a good album, but I was not baffled when I heard it - I didn't expect more from BC then, given the declining quality of his songwriting.

And "Oceania" is wayyyy worse to me, starting with a song that's not far from being Bully at his nadir ("Yes I ! Yes I ! Yes I !"). And not a single drum fill by JC to listen to, for obvious reasons..

[pavementtune]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

TBK is better

that's still baffling to me. how on earth could anyone rank tbk over - anything. absolute low point of everything corgan ever released.
I don't enjoy the Zeitgeist album, but I'd listen to it on repeat before I'd listen to tbk ever again.

[Elphenor]

TBK was actually interesting and Corgan was doing stuff that he hadn't done before like Stitch in Time and Freak and The Fellowship and Astral Planes(Yes I dig it)

Along the way he released a few absolute shit songs for sure but ZG is shit from top to bottom and no amount of Jimmy super drumming was going to save those cheeze metal riffs, awful lyrics, atrocity level vocals(those Billy choirs and the la la la's and the no consonants good fucking God it's so awful), and the just plain dull songwriting.

It still shocks me how bad ZG.

For me it's "TBK isn't great" but at least it's not ZG

[pavementtune]

okay, but what album do you think would win the poll "which is worse to listen to from start to finish: tbk or zeitgeist" ?

I mean you like tbk and all, but you always pretend there is some obvious reason why people should see zeitgeist as the worst shit that ever happened under the sp name. yet there are as many reasons why you could judge tbk as shitfest.

[The exploding boy]

I would listen to TBK over ZG any day. Because TBK has at least two half decent songs. Which ZG doesn't.

I mean for sure ideally i'd rather not be subjected to either. I'm with elph that it's obvious ZG is the worst shit Corgan has put his name on.

I may be slightly biased though because heavy SP was never my favorite. But god, even then, nothing on ZG can measure against even my least favorite heavy riffage from SP1.

IMHO FWIW