Netphoria Message Board


Go Back   Netphoria Message Board > Archives > Pumpkins Archive
Register Netphoria's Amazon.com Link Members List Mark Forums Read

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-18-2007, 04:55 PM   #1
candycane
Demi-God
 
candycane's Avatar
 
Posts: 404
Default Do Bill's lyrics suck?

Cruising around Blamo and various other places today I noticed several people who posted coments about Tarantula like: "Not bad but the lyrics suck. SP never did have good lyrics though." That's not exact but I saw something similar in two different places. Nobody contridicted these posters. I was shocked!

I mean, we all know Bill writes gay lyrics and Tarantula's lyrics are typically gay in the way that only Billy can pull off... but Sucky?

I don't know how anyone could listen to a song like "Wound" and not be blown away by the way the lyrics are put together. Also, even though I've always felt that Billy's Lyrics have grown progressively more complicated and just better at the same time they've gotten gayer, I've still thought even critics recognized the inate songwriting ability he has. Even in the SD era I had always heard that Billy was pretty respected as a lyricist.

It was probably just a few dumbasses but does anybody here think billy's lyrics suck?

 
candycane is offline
Old 05-18-2007, 04:57 PM   #2
Travis Meeks
Rambling on
 
Travis Meeks's Avatar
 
Posts: 20,542
Default

ugh

 
Travis Meeks is offline
Old 05-18-2007, 04:57 PM   #3
Effloresce
Banned
 
Posts: 5,018
Default

No, but you do.

 
Effloresce is offline
Old 05-18-2007, 05:00 PM   #4
monkeyfritters
Minion of Satan
 
monkeyfritters's Avatar
 
Location: google
Posts: 6,662
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Effloresce
No, but you do.
qft.

gay is an annoying verbal crutch little man.

 
monkeyfritters is offline
Old 05-18-2007, 05:05 PM   #5
candycane
Demi-God
 
candycane's Avatar
 
Posts: 404
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeyfritters
gay is an annoying verbal crutch little man.
You can do better than that... really.

Hi Effe'!

 
candycane is offline
Old 05-18-2007, 05:08 PM   #6
pete
Apocalyptic Poster
 
pete's Avatar
 
Location: London
Posts: 1,597
Default

I havn't heard too many bands where i think, those lyrics are good. Theyre just lyrics, and i dont read too much into them. Billy's voice has always be technically poor, but i learned to lov/live with it a long time ago.

 
pete is offline
Old 05-18-2007, 05:21 PM   #7
hcueva
Demi-God
 
hcueva's Avatar
 
Posts: 338
Default

They don't suck, no.

 
hcueva is offline
Old 05-18-2007, 05:25 PM   #8
candycane
Demi-God
 
candycane's Avatar
 
Posts: 404
Default

On a day when 25 pages will be filled by 6pm tonight about how much or little Tarantula rawked, god forbid someone provide a wonderfully gay alternative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
I havn't heard too many bands where i think, those lyrics are good. Theyre just lyrics, and i dont read too much into them. Billy's voice has always be technically poor, but i learned to lov/live with it a long time ago.
I think most people are like that. Thanks for some honest input.

 
candycane is offline
Old 05-18-2007, 05:39 PM   #9
Shapan
Socialphobic
 
Shapan's Avatar
 
Location: intellectual hobo
Posts: 11,794
Default

billy has some of my favorite lyrics, but im not impressed by any of them in tarantula.

the song is pretty good, though.

 
Shapan is offline
Old 05-18-2007, 05:45 PM   #10
dudehitscar
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Posts: 2,652
Default

He has put out some really cringe worthy stuff but I think 90% of the lyrics he writes is good to fucking amazing. He's not Bob Dylan but he is definitely my fav best songwriter of the 90s to now.

 
dudehitscar is offline
Old 05-18-2007, 05:47 PM   #11
dudehitscar
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Posts: 2,652
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by candycane
On a day when 25 pages will be filled by 6pm tonight about how much or little Tarantula rawked, god forbid someone provide a wonderfully gay alternative.



I think most people are like that. Thanks for some honest input.

I'm pretty into lyrics myself. Corgan is a great lyricist when he tries.

 
dudehitscar is offline
Old 05-18-2007, 05:56 PM   #12
redbull
Immortal
 
redbull's Avatar
 
Location: like liutenant dan i'm rollin'
Posts: 21,016
Default

lyrics are usually great. not Tarantula.

 
redbull is offline
Old 05-18-2007, 06:15 PM   #13
brillo998
Ownz
 
brillo998's Avatar
 
Location: columbus
Posts: 838
Default

yea i usually like sp lyrics. these are just kinda dumbed down lyrics. songs still good tho.

 
brillo998 is offline
Old 05-18-2007, 06:17 PM   #14
candycane
Demi-God
 
candycane's Avatar
 
Posts: 404
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull
lyrics are usually great. not Tarantula.
I don't even know what all the lyrics in Tarantula are yet but on first glance it seems not to be his best work. I do like some of the parts I think I know though.

The second part of the first verse and a few other are still better written than most music on radio these days.

Last edited by candycane : 05-18-2007 at 07:08 PM.

 
candycane is offline
Old 05-18-2007, 07:52 PM   #15
MrEcks
Pledge
 
MrEcks's Avatar
 
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 93
Default

I think if one were to look for what would have been the natural progression of the Pumpkins from MCIS had Adore not happened (don't get me wrong, I'm on the side of those who recognize Adore for it's brilliance), Tarantula would be a pretty good answer. It's not quite as artsy as most of the stuff off Machina and it's not quite as heavy as some of the songs off of MCIS... But it's most definitely a Pumpkins song and a pretty solid one at that. Everyone is naturally going to be looking for things to pick apart here but if you take the song for what it is I think it's pretty strong. Obviously almost seven years have passed since Machina and that's going to show on the new album, but I think if Tarantula is any indication of what the rest of the album may sound like, we've got to be pretty hopeful that Zeitgeist will hand us our asses/burn the lies from our souls.

 
MrEcks is offline
Old 05-18-2007, 07:56 PM   #16
morecowbell
Ownz
 
morecowbell's Avatar
 
Location: really exploring the studio space this time
Posts: 536
Default

i think the lyrics are very symbolic. talking about what's real, and how we're only real because we know we exist, and how god is alone.

do you want the blue pill or the red pill?

 
morecowbell is offline
Old 05-18-2007, 08:00 PM   #17
candycane
Demi-God
 
candycane's Avatar
 
Posts: 404
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrecks
I think if one were to look for what would have been the natural progression of the Pumpkins from MCIS had Adore not happened (don't get me wrong, I'm on the side of those who recognize Adore for it's brilliance), Tarantula would be a pretty good answer. It's not quite as artsy as most of the stuff off Machina and it's not quite as heavy as some of the songs off of MCIS... But it's most definitely a Pumpkins song and a pretty solid one at that. Everyone is naturally going to be looking for things to pick apart here but if you take the song for what it is I think it's pretty strong. Obviously almost seven years have passed since Machina and that's going to show on the new album, but I think if Tarantula is any indication of what the rest of the album may sound like, we've got to be pretty hopeful that Zeitgeist will hand us our asses/burn the lies from our souls.
I was thinking that earlier today too. Back when Bill was saying rock is dead and theres nowhere left to go with it wadaya know if 12 years later he doesn't finnally find somewhere else to take it. Tarantula seemed to me to be pretty different from anything I've ever heard as a whole before.


Quote:
Originally Posted by morecowbell
do you want the blue pill or the red pill?
Red please

Last edited by candycane : 05-18-2007 at 08:05 PM.

 
candycane is offline
Old 05-19-2007, 01:53 AM   #18
WeilandFan
Apocalyptic Poster
 
WeilandFan's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,270
Default

Tarantula has got some alright lines, but it's mainly just a love song. Tonight, Tonight has some great inspirational lines like "the resolute urgency of now," "believe, believe in me," "the impossible is possible tonight." Muzzle also has great lyrics like "Have you ever listened to the words, I'm singin in these songs? It's for the girlllll, I've loved all my life.." Mellon Collie has some great lyrics, that was Billy's peak.

 
WeilandFan is offline
Old 05-19-2007, 03:20 AM   #19
Becky Sharp
Pledge
 
Becky Sharp's Avatar
 
Location: melbourne
Posts: 77
Default

its because of billys lyrics that i love the pumpkins... tarantula has somewhat been a little dissapointing. i still like it, but hes done so much better....

 
Becky Sharp is offline
Old 05-19-2007, 07:09 AM   #20
Boycott Graceland
Socialphobic
 
Boycott Graceland's Avatar
 
Location: leprechaun julius
Posts: 10,323
Default

entertainment weekly gave his book of poetry a D rating. entertainment. weekly.

 
Boycott Graceland is offline
Old 05-19-2007, 07:24 AM   #21
aztec litany service
Apocalyptic Poster
 
aztec litany service's Avatar
 
Location: cedar park, tx
Posts: 1,535
Default

sometimes they're the definition of what i think good lyrics should be, sometimes they're just words, rarely would i say something sucked.
'i am one' has some of my fav. bc lyrics, and most folks would probably consider it not so great to dumb ('try to turn to reasons in your..BITTER LIIIFE') but i love it. it doesn't "rely" on the lyrics, but the lyrics do help it achieve its overall power. a lot of my fav bc lyrics come from that era...when the spotlight wasn't as much on the lyrics.

Last edited by aztec litany service : 05-19-2007 at 07:34 AM.

 
aztec litany service is offline
Old 05-19-2007, 11:32 AM   #22
RenewRevive
Minion of Satan
 
RenewRevive's Avatar
 
Location: Welcome to the real world jackass
Posts: 5,056
Default

whereas on machina there was a lot of redundancy and repitition there were still some excellent lyrics. since then good lines have been few and far between. this seems to be the case with tarantula, although it is only one track of 12 (plus b-sides) so it is a bit early to be conclusive. the vocal style of corgan's voice is also worrying as it is closer to tfe than anything else. i know he was always disappointed with his voice but it had something about it that made it oddly enjoyable. the effort that he made with it for adore paid off as it is probably his best singing, but he's been on a downward spiral since. is it correctable? i think so, but he has to want to sing differently. for what it's worth i don't like his pre-gish vocals either.

 
RenewRevive is offline
Old 05-19-2007, 11:42 AM   #23
Steve Holt
Demi-God
 
Steve Holt's Avatar
 
Location: I'm Darth Nihilus
Posts: 469
Default

I never really paid attention to what good lyrics were until I listened to the Pumpkins. i grew up listening to thrash/speed/death metal before I found SP. before then, I thought Tom Araya and Max Cavalera were great lyricists

 
Steve Holt is offline
Old 05-19-2007, 11:43 AM   #24
kingy
Demi-God
 
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 388
Default

I think a lot of the pre-gish vocals and Gish era were more just there because they needed something to sing along with the lyrics.
Its not like songs such as Vanilla are gonna go down as lyrical genious however I think a lot of SP songs from SD -> Machina have excellent lyrics and are one of the bands strong points. They are just so different from most other bands. Sure there have been some cringe worthy moments (One more cherry cola?) but great most of the time.

I'm not quite sold on the lyrics for Tarantula, they aren't bad but not quite up to par. I'm still very hopeful for Zeitgeist though. I think Tarantula is a great song that could have been right up there with the classics if it was slightly longer (particularly the breakdown, I love it its so Geek USA but its over before you know it) and the vocals/lyrics were a tad tighter.

I'm pretty certain they'll extend the breakdown and really rock out on this live though. It really is quite a dynamic song despite its shorter run time which was probably more out of a fear of alienating the casual audience with an overly long song.

 
kingy is offline
Old 05-19-2007, 11:45 AM   #25
brendo_91
Minion of Satan
 
brendo_91's Avatar
 
Location: ██████████
Posts: 6,476
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeilandFan
Muzzle also has great lyrics like "Have you ever listened to the words, I'm singin in these songs? It's for the girlllll, I've loved all my life.." Mellon Collie has some great lyrics, that was Billy's peak.
Uhhh.

have you ever heard the words
i'm singing in these song?
it's for the girl i've loved all along
can a taste of love be so wrong


http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/s...d=116&display=

 
brendo_91 is offline
Old 05-19-2007, 11:50 AM   #26
neopryn
let's see your penis!
 
neopryn's Avatar
 
Location: i had a few beers, but i'm cool to drive
Posts: 31,847
Default

parts of MCIS and almost all of Adore had great lyrics. rest of them either suck or are unincredible.

 
neopryn is offline
Old 05-19-2007, 11:51 AM   #27
RenewRevive
Minion of Satan
 
RenewRevive's Avatar
 
Location: Welcome to the real world jackass
Posts: 5,056
Default

maybe he needs people like james and d'arcy hanging around the studio, doing drugs and pissing him off to produce his best lyrics. admittedly this didn't work with zwan, so perhaps this is a flawed hypothesis.

 
RenewRevive is offline
Old 05-19-2007, 11:56 AM   #28
Steve Holt
Demi-God
 
Steve Holt's Avatar
 
Location: I'm Darth Nihilus
Posts: 469
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingy
cringe worthy moments (One more cherry cola?) .
i actually kinda like that line. one line that makes me cringe is "look ma, the sun is shining on me"

 
Steve Holt is offline
Old 05-19-2007, 12:03 PM   #29
j u n e
Apocalyptic Poster
 
j u n e's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,713
Default

tarantula's lyrics are kinda...bad. symbolism can be presented in a cheesy fashion or a cryptic fashion and i believe this time billz' lyrics are in the former category.

we'll see how the rest of the album compares soon enough. for now i can laugh at at the horrid opening couplet.

 
j u n e is offline
Old 05-19-2007, 12:05 PM   #30
jamesey
Demi-God
 
Location: Pasadena, CA USA
Posts: 480
Default

do Billy's lyrics suck? compared to who?

He's got the best vocabulary and imagery of any rocker around.

edit: this topic pisses me off. if there's one thing that doesn't suck about Billy, it's his lyrics.

Imagine if you were a NIN fan and had to put up with this shit as the deepest it gets.

"Will you bite the hand that feeds?
Will you chew until it bleeds? "

Last edited by jamesey : 05-19-2007 at 12:13 PM.

 
jamesey is offline
 


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is On
Google


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:15 PM.




Smashing Pumpkins, Alternative Music
& General Discussion Message Board and Forums
www.netphoria.org - Copyright © 1998-2022