What is the nadir of the band? - Page 6

lightdark · 12-04-2018, 05:48 PM

I don't know, I'd argue for Spangled as well, as a song, but not the abomination of a version he released. The live acoustic version was quite nice. The Fellowship was alright too, nothing special, but just "okay". It's hard to tell in context, because everything felt like such a massive letdown at the time, but then Solara did too.

redbreegull · 12-04-2018, 06:12 PM

I relistened to TGBK a few weeks ago, after hearing Shiny, to do a comparison with other SP2 stuff. It was the first time ever I listened all the way through the two EPs plus two extra songs, and it was the first time in 7-8 years I had listened to some of them.

It's really, really bad. it almost makes Zeitgeist seem like a classic album by comparison. Even songs that I thought I liked at the time, e.g. Spangled, just seemed painful as I relived the feelings of exasperation I felt waiting months and months in between each of these songs. Owata is another one that I liked initially live, but by the time it came out it felt so dead, and the production and arrangements of all these songs seriously sound like some kind of circus joke

Shadaloo · 12-04-2018, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbreegull

Listening to the music from this point to 2011 in hindsight, it's more than just bad. It really sounds like Billy was having a total mental breakdown.

I mean

https://i.imgur.com/TIUAkpT.png

houseofglass11 · 12-04-2018, 06:31 PM

A Stitch In Time was good. I prefer the version on YouTube where some dude added drums though.

redbreegull · 12-04-2018, 06:34 PM

I think he's playing a Guild in that picture. never seen him play one before

Elphenor · 12-04-2018, 06:39 PM

Song for a Son, Lightning Strikes, Stitch in Time

Cottonwood Symphony

it was all way better than anything ZG to me

Elphenor · 12-04-2018, 06:41 PM

but ZG just has an offensive aesthetic on top of the songs being bad, it's overwhelmingly shite

it might be the single worst album released from a band that took a hiatus

idk it being my first disappointment with the pumpkins probably adds to the level of disgust

redbreegull · 12-04-2018, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elphenor

Song for a Son, Lightning Strikes, Stitch in Time

Cottonwood Symphony

it was all way better than anything ZG to me

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elphenor

but ZG just has an offensive aesthetic on top of the songs being bad, it's overwhelmingly shite

it might be the single worst album released from a band that took a hiatus

idk it being my first disappointment with the pumpkins probably adds to the level of disgust

You should try listening to Z again (the complete tracklisting) and then comparing it to TGBK. I hadn't listened to Zeitgeist in like 5 years or more, but I recently found that I had mentally built up this feeling that it is way worse than it actually is. The aesthetic IS offensive as is the production, but it has a fair amount of legitimately good songs. I think the disappointment from expecting SP1 quality, and then coupled with Jimmy leaving and how bad the music got after that, led to me forming a pretty strong emotional repulsion to Zeitgeist that was more based on context than on the actual album. Disappointing? Yes. Terrible? Nope.

smashingjj · 12-04-2018, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elphenor

Song for a Son, Lightning Strikes, Stitch in Time

Cottonwood Symphony

it was all way better than anything ZG to me

god stop having opinions about things please

this is just as bad as comparing monuments to shity

FoolofaTook · 12-04-2018, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

A Stitch In Time was good. I prefer the version on YouTube where some dude added drums though.

nadir of the board

fluxequalsrad · 12-04-2018, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbreegull

Disappointing? Yes. Terrible? Nope.

Stockholm syndrome.

ilikeplanets · 12-04-2018, 10:32 PM

I think Oceania>Zeitgeist>Shiny>MTAE>TGBK

ilikeplanets · 12-04-2018, 10:34 PM

Shiny would have ranked a little higher than ZG but it's too short for all the "hype"

ilikeplanets · 12-04-2018, 10:35 PM

Also, I sincerely dislike them all

fuzzyroes · 12-04-2018, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbreegull

Jimmy leaving in 2009 was really hurtful. I don't mean to be melodramatic, but it really was the ultimate let down. We had all waited so fuckin long for the band to finally get back together, the new songs seemed good, the band was playing well live, and then Billy just alienated Jimmy again. If you weren't paying attention in this era, it's hard to even describe how upsetting this was. To me, this is when the spirit of the band died.

Listening to the music from this point to 2011 in hindsight, it's more than just bad. It really sounds like Billy was having a total mental breakdown. Not only is it a terrible "album," it's honestly one of the worst albums I have ever heard. Imagine being told there was going to be one song a month, in the first four months you get song for a dong, astral planes, and widow, and then there is complete radio silence for ten months until the next drip of awful material. It was excruciating.

So no, really nothing will ever be worse than TGBK 09-11

Couldn't agree more with you here. I was really excited about the reformation and I was fine with the lineup as long as Jimmy was there. I bought into all of Billy's rhetoric that it was only crucial for he and Jimmy to be there.

Jimmy leaving was a deal breaker and the fact that they replaced him with someone so inferior was the ultimate slap in the face.

houseofglass11 · 12-04-2018, 11:50 PM

Byrne wasn’t a bad drummer it’s just that asking someone to play exactly like someone who also happens to be one of the best drummers ever is a tall order for anyone. The kid is actually really talented.

fuzzyroes · 12-05-2018, 12:06 AM

He had potential, sure, but he was wayyyyyy out of his league. He butchered the classics and the stuff he wrote for the new songs was really weak too.

redbreegull · 12-05-2018, 12:07 AM

He sounds pretty good on his own music, but like a fish out of water in SP.

houseofglass11 · 12-05-2018, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoolofaTook

nadir of the board

nadir of your family

Elphenor · 12-05-2018, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smashingjj

this is just as bad as comparing monuments to shity

so not very

Sonic Johnny · 12-05-2018, 02:27 AM

this thread

FoolofaTook · 12-05-2018, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

nadir of your family

i see someone hasn't met my brother

eviltimeban · 12-05-2018, 09:22 AM

ZG probably edges TG, but only because Jimmy is on it.

Saying that, I listened to Bring The Light recently, just by itself, and it was mega. Sure, the chorus is repetitive, but everything else is great. It's the closest to SP 1 that SP 2 have done I reckon. The gentle end part is really nice, almost dreamy; the vocals aren't too high in the mix, drums are great, killer guitar solo as well.

TG didn't have any of that stuff really. SFAS I didn't mind at the time, and I have a perverse fondness for Astral Planes, Lightning Strikes has it's moments, and I'm probably the only SP fan who things Owata should've closed Oceania.

MtAE is the nadir though. It wasn't the Pumpkins. It should never have come out.

VoxUpDoc · 12-05-2018, 10:14 AM

I love how every time Billy put out an album over the last 18 years it was basically testing his own delusions, resulting in a meltdown pretty much every time.

Will we get one after Shiny?

Zer0 Hour · 12-06-2018, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woody

I love how every time Billy put out an album over the last 18 years it was basically testing his own delusions, resulting in a meltdown pretty much every time.

Will we get one after Shiny?

Probably. The album doesn't seem to be selling well. And if the next full tour bombs, I'm full prepared for Billy to kick Jimmy and James to the curb again, say it was all "lies upon lies upon lies" and claim they were stifling his creativity or some other horseshit.

redbreegull · 12-06-2018, 01:40 PM

It's hard for me to see the next tour bombing unless it's horribly bungled. Billy finally seems to have found the secret code to activate widespread fan interest again (believe it or not it was playing his classic songs with the OG band, who'd have thunk?).

Having said that, he is an incredibly self-sabotaging person who alienates everyone around him

Shadaloo · 12-06-2018, 01:46 PM

He seems to be saying that he's happy with the reception. Going back to before Ogilala he claimed he didn't care about sales anymore. Not that I think that's true but he didn't throw a shit fit and we know it didn't sell great.

redbreegull · 12-06-2018, 02:02 PM

The thing is everyone is suddenly focusing on the poor sales of this album, but it actually doesn't/shouldn't matter. If Billy is able to look past what THE GENERAL PUBLIC thinks about his music and actually focuses on fan reception, that will be major growth for him.

Zer0 Hour · 12-06-2018, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbreegull

It's hard for me to see the next tour bombing unless it's horribly bungled. Billy finally seems to have found the secret code to activate widespread fan interest again (believe it or not it was playing his classic songs with the OG band, who'd have thunk?).

Having said that, he is an incredibly self-sabotaging person who alienates everyone around him

Alienation
Alienation
The last four albums
Were pure masterbation

redbreegull · 12-06-2018, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour

Alienation
Alienation
The last four albums
Were pure masterbation

not really. at least masturbation feels good

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12-04-2018, 05:48 PM	#151
lightdark Pledge Posts: 55	I don't know, I'd argue for Spangled as well, as a song, but not the abomination of a version he released. The live acoustic version was quite nice. The Fellowship was alright too, nothing special, but just "okay". It's hard to tell in context, because everything felt like such a massive letdown at the time, but then Solara did too.

12-04-2018, 06:12 PM	#152
redbreegull Just Hook it to My Veins! Location: N3t4Euh Haus Posts: 32,753	I relistened to TGBK a few weeks ago, after hearing Shiny, to do a comparison with other SP2 stuff. It was the first time ever I listened all the way through the two EPs plus two extra songs, and it was the first time in 7-8 years I had listened to some of them. It's really, really bad. it almost makes Zeitgeist seem like a classic album by comparison. Even songs that I thought I liked at the time, e.g. Spangled, just seemed painful as I relived the feelings of exasperation I felt waiting months and months in between each of these songs. Owata is another one that I liked initially live, but by the time it came out it felt so dead, and the production and arrangements of all these songs seriously sound like some kind of circus joke

12-04-2018, 06:31 PM	#154
houseofglass11 Minion of Satan Location: sleuthing around like a worm Posts: 5,690	A Stitch In Time was good. I prefer the version on YouTube where some dude added drums though.

12-04-2018, 06:34 PM	#155
redbreegull Just Hook it to My Veins! Location: N3t4Euh Haus Posts: 32,753	I think he's playing a Guild in that picture. never seen him play one before

12-04-2018, 06:39 PM	#156
Elphenor Braindead Location: TX Posts: 16,289	Song for a Son, Lightning Strikes, Stitch in Time Cottonwood Symphony it was all way better than anything ZG to me

12-04-2018, 06:41 PM	#157
Elphenor Braindead Location: TX Posts: 16,289	but ZG just has an offensive aesthetic on top of the songs being bad, it's overwhelmingly shite it might be the single worst album released from a band that took a hiatus idk it being my first disappointment with the pumpkins probably adds to the level of disgust

12-04-2018, 10:32 PM	#162
ilikeplanets Braindead Location: Ignore List Posts: 17,229	I think Oceania>Zeitgeist>Shiny>MTAE>TGBK

12-04-2018, 10:34 PM	#163
ilikeplanets Braindead Location: Ignore List Posts: 17,229	Shiny would have ranked a little higher than ZG but it's too short for all the "hype"

12-04-2018, 10:35 PM	#164
ilikeplanets Braindead Location: Ignore List Posts: 17,229	Also, I sincerely dislike them all

12-04-2018, 11:50 PM	#166
houseofglass11 Minion of Satan Location: sleuthing around like a worm Posts: 5,690	Byrne wasn’t a bad drummer it’s just that asking someone to play exactly like someone who also happens to be one of the best drummers ever is a tall order for anyone. The kid is actually really talented.

12-05-2018, 12:06 AM	#167
fuzzyroes Banned Posts: 21,169	He had potential, sure, but he was wayyyyyy out of his league. He butchered the classics and the stuff he wrote for the new songs was really weak too.

12-05-2018, 12:07 AM	#168
redbreegull Just Hook it to My Veins! Location: N3t4Euh Haus Posts: 32,753	He sounds pretty good on his own music, but like a fish out of water in SP.

12-05-2018, 02:27 AM	#171
Sonic Johnny Through Silver In Buds Location: Centralia Posts: 16,502	this thread

12-05-2018, 09:22 AM	#173
eviltimeban Apocalyptic Poster Posts: 2,142	ZG probably edges TG, but only because Jimmy is on it. Saying that, I listened to Bring The Light recently, just by itself, and it was mega. Sure, the chorus is repetitive, but everything else is great. It's the closest to SP 1 that SP 2 have done I reckon. The gentle end part is really nice, almost dreamy; the vocals aren't too high in the mix, drums are great, killer guitar solo as well. TG didn't have any of that stuff really. SFAS I didn't mind at the time, and I have a perverse fondness for Astral Planes, Lightning Strikes has it's moments, and I'm probably the only SP fan who things Owata should've closed Oceania. MtAE is the nadir though. It wasn't the Pumpkins. It should never have come out.

12-05-2018, 10:14 AM	#174
VoxUpDoc Apocalyptic Poster Posts: 3,881	I love how every time Billy put out an album over the last 18 years it was basically testing his own delusions, resulting in a meltdown pretty much every time. Will we get one after Shiny?

12-06-2018, 01:40 PM	#176
redbreegull Just Hook it to My Veins! Location: N3t4Euh Haus Posts: 32,753	It's hard for me to see the next tour bombing unless it's horribly bungled. Billy finally seems to have found the secret code to activate widespread fan interest again (believe it or not it was playing his classic songs with the OG band, who'd have thunk?). Having said that, he is an incredibly self-sabotaging person who alienates everyone around him

12-06-2018, 01:46 PM	#177
Shadaloo Apocalyptic Poster Location: up on the cross you go little fella Posts: 2,676	He seems to be saying that he's happy with the reception. Going back to before Ogilala he claimed he didn't care about sales anymore. Not that I think that's true but he didn't throw a shit fit and we know it didn't sell great.

12-06-2018, 02:02 PM	#178
redbreegull Just Hook it to My Veins! Location: N3t4Euh Haus Posts: 32,753	The thing is everyone is suddenly focusing on the poor sales of this album, but it actually doesn't/shouldn't matter. If Billy is able to look past what THE GENERAL PUBLIC thinks about his music and actually focuses on fan reception, that will be major growth for him.