An MP FAQ In Progress - Don't Kill Me :)

[Smiley]

Originally posted by Paulo
well, IIRC Billy says "San Diego in 93", though he's not sure. I don't know how far is San Diego from Del Mar, but I'm pretty that's the show. I once checked the details from the 2 sources, and I'm 100% sure that's the correct date. Unless they played that song *exactly* the same way mroe than once (that is, with the exact same solo, same flaws in vocals, same crowd cheering, etc). I don't think so

Yeah, you guys are right. I'm listening to the Del Mar show now, and this is it. I guess I was just questioning it because I hadn't listened to this show in a while, and I *knew* that Billy didn't mention a specific date during the 10/8/95 interview. But now that I'm listening to it, duh, this is the show.

np - cherub rock 10/26/93

[Axis of Action]

This is what I like to see! Detective work, all aces, all around.

*updates the FAQ*

[Cactuar]

I'm Jesus<3Babies. I posted the JLHB.mp3, and it got deleted that afternoon (my time). So I posted it again. It got deleted again. It turns out it was Gaddrow deleting my posts under orders from someone (probably quinto).

I was given it by a source that wants to be anonymous. My post started this whole thing. K THX BYE

[Boycott Graceland]

Disc 4 Track 06 – Disarm
Time: 3:23
Description: (live 93)
Availability: You can find live Disarm like you can find a can of Pepsi in a 7/11. It’s on 110 boots. If you can’t find it live, you have problems. Like, problems which suggest you should stay away from trading. Anything. Even Yu-Gi-Oh cards.
Source: Disarm was performed 40 times in 1993. There’s nothing to pinpoint which exact concert this was from. Pick a date, any date….
Details: Pretty straightforward here. Crowd favorite. Sounds like an arena show, not a close-quartered thing like it would be at the Metro. Definitely sounds soundboarded. It’s pretty safe to assume most live stuff on MP is soundboard. Cello played, most likely D’arcy on that. Jimmy does the traditiional jazz drum accompaniement. Billy ends it with a simple “Thank you very much."

i'm almost positive that disarm on MP came from...*drumroll*

1993/12/12 - Universal Amphitheater; Los Angeles, CA, US

why?

12/12 is the only known performance of rudolph the rednosed reindeer (also on MP), which if you listen, has the EXACT same mixing as the MP version of disarm. billy hard to one side, james hard to one side, drums/vox/cello/bass center. the show was an acoustic show, which raises the probability of there being a cellist accompanying them.

and yes, i know there's no cello playing along during rudolph. but if you listen when billy sings, "then one foggy christmas eve," you hear this weird squealing noise front and center, too clear to be someone in the audience. it's the cello.

it's most likely that eric guy - not darcy on the cello. the vieuphoria rerelease proved that they lugged him and his instrument around on tour with them for a while in 93/94.

note - the promo version of rudolph mixed out the rest of the band except billy and james, and mixed billy's guitar to the center; whereas the MP mix of the song also contains the rest of the band. it's pretty obvious that it's the same performance.

to top it off, there are known existing pre-fms of the whole show. so there you go. my contribution to this whole mashed faq.

[Axis of Action]

I <3 your logic, but checking this stuff at 4:30am is mindblowingly anal.

What's funny is the fade-ins even sound the same on the two tracks... (kinda bad, in fact).

But I digress and agree. They sound like they were from the same source. And the Disarm song proves that cello boy Eric was on stage. Consider the FAQ updated and you given proper props. (thanks for pointing out that it was likely Eric on Cello and not D'arcy... God, I don't even know if she can play cello, I just kind of assumed... maybe I should work on this FAQ in the daytime when I'm conscious and not at 3am when I'm on the verge of going unconscious.)

[Smiley]

Originally posted by Cactuar
I'm Jesus<3Babies. I posted the JLHB.mp3, and it got deleted that afternoon (my time). So I posted it again. It got deleted again. It turns out it was Gaddrow deleting my posts under orders from someone (probably quinto).

I was given it by a source that wants to be anonymous. My post started this whole thing. K THX BYE

heh... I remember a few weeks before that, you made a post just to say "np: Jesus Loves His Babies (MP version)". So when the mp3 mysteriously appeared, it wasn't really a huge shock to me.

Originally posted by Sehki
I <3 your logic, but checking this stuff at 4:30am is mindblowingly anal.

...

maybe I should work on this FAQ in the daytime when I'm conscious and not at 3am when I'm on the verge of going unconscious.)

haha... it looks to me like you can't even decide what time it is!

[Brute Squad]

Originally posted by Halteh
Hey Paulo, does that mean you're still willing to trade with me? I know you 1 specific show I really want. There were 2-3 others I was interested in as well. I'm totally out of the SP trading loop as of late, but I'd be willing to make an exception for you

I'd do the same, but you know he's after those '91 sbds that we're hoarding. We just can't trade those out.

[Mason R Butler]

Originally posted by Andrew Fogelsong


I'd do the same, but you know he's after those '91 sbds that we're hoarding. We just can't trade those out.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL99/8...6/18531415.jpg

[Boycott Graceland]

Originally posted by Sehki
What's funny is the fade-ins even sound the same on the two tracks... (kinda bad, in fact).

But I digress and agree. They sound like they were from the same source. And the Disarm song proves that cello boy Eric was on stage. Consider the FAQ updated and you given proper props. (thanks for pointing out that it was likely Eric on Cello and not D'arcy... God, I don't even know if she can play cello, I just kind of assumed... maybe I should work on this FAQ in the daytime when I'm conscious and not at 3am when I'm on the verge of going unconscious.)

the fade-ins suck on almost EVERY track.

cool. thanks for the credit.

[Paulo]

Originally posted by Andrew Fogelsong

I'd do the same, but you know he's after those '91 sbds that we're hoarding. We just can't trade those out.

eheh, yes ya fuckers, release all the gish soundboards already!

No really, I never said anyone had Gish soundboards. I said I wasn't interested in trading unless it is stuff like a Gish soundboard or some good old demos. I just don't care for anything else. I don't have the 2000 full soundboards and I'm not even remotely interested in getting them. Trading SP for me was just a hobby that somehow became larger than it should.

Anyway, Fares and Andrew, drop me an email and we'll work something out. A b&p is possible, but it might take a while as I don't have most of my cdrs/dats available at the moment and I'm burner-less.

-Paulo

[Paulo]

Yet the 951008 interview, here are a couple fragments with reference to MP. It's an interesting interview overall, full of curious snippets of information and hilarious remarks from James. This reminds, is the Nov.2000 Sound Opinions available somewhere? I never got to hear it

http://pagina.vizzavi.pt/~vb20552a/9...reference1.mp3
http://pagina.vizzavi.pt/~vb20552a/9...reference2.mp3

-Paulo

[Axis of Action]

Originally posted by Smiley


haha... it looks to me like you can't even decide what time it is!

I can too! I wrote that post at 4:30am, hence the comment. The 3am comment is about when I normally work on the FAQ. Take that, bizatch.

[Smiley]

Originally posted by Paulo
This reminds, is the Nov.2000 Sound Opinions available somewhere? I never got to hear it

soundopinions.net used to have the whole thing online, but now it's just a segment... I haven't listened yet though, to see how long the segment is... the actual show was just as long as the 10/8/95 interview, if not longer.

http://www.soundopinions.net/realaudio.html

[Dead]

Originally posted by Cactuar
My post started this whole thing.

http://www.emotioneric.com/dumbf.jpg

[sarmatianus]

A good start on a new FAQ, but there are several larger problems I'd like to raise, as well as some specific quibbles with certain info...

Larger issues:

1) There is WAY too much reliance on the SPFC. Example - in one of the Availability sections, you cite that there were only 4 1990 shows. Yes, only 4 shows available to FANS in general circulation. God knows what Billy does or doesn't have. Some easy proof that this model won't stand up are the multiple live tracks of songs that we otherwise have no live record of (Cinder, Not Worth Asking, etc)

2) You should have every track there. Even if you have nothing to add to it, put it up anyway.

3) I'm not certain that we need to know every single little detail. Just give your conclusions and give what necessary data backs that up. This is just supposed to be a quick reference guide.

Minor Info Quibbles:

1) Kill Your Parents - I believe that Billy says something about Belgium here, so that prompts me to think that it was recorded there. There are a good handful of shows in the likely time frame (1991/1992); only a few have known recordings. Speaking of which...

2) [Actually a non-MP concern]: The Pumpkins played at Vooruit in Gent, Belgium on BOTH September 7, 1991 and September 7, 1992? That just seems odd. On the other hand, the brief European excursion in early fall 1991 seems entirely counter to the touring route, so what do I know?

3) Do we really know that Coming Attractions was taped off the radio? It sounds to me like someone talking at the venue with a ********** track. SBDs can sound exactly like that. The waitresses thing and all that. It just doesn't fit the radio format.

4) Also a question just posed in the SP/Zwan forum: is Cinder really a very early and rough form of Silverfuck? There are some parts that are very similar in riffs, cadences, and timing.

Okay, that's all for now. Sorry to seem so bitchy - I know that you've put in a lot of hard work on this - I just want to see it done well.

[Axis of Action]

Originally posted by sarmatianus


1) There is WAY too much reliance on the SPFC. Example - in one of the Availability sections, you cite that there were only 4 1990 shows. Yes, only 4 shows available to FANS in general circulation. God knows what Billy does or doesn't have. Some easy proof that this model won't stand up are the multiple live tracks of songs that we otherwise have no live record of (Cinder, Not Worth Asking, etc)

That's a fair point, though honestly the only information I have is the SPFC - I'm relying a lot on people chiming in with their own information, like they have been doing.

2) You should have every track there. Even if you have nothing to add to it, put it up anyway.

Yeah I will at some point. I was doing the tracks initially by interest in the song and then by having all 5 discs on random in Winamp, heh.

3) I'm not certain that we need to know every single little detail. Just give your conclusions and give what necessary data backs that up. This is just supposed to be a quick reference guide.

Again, a fair point. The FAQ obviously has major editing to go through, though I think in some way the detective work is interesting. Once I get most of the track-by-track stuff done, I'm going to comb through and streamline information so as to be presented in a quicker way, though the trail I think is just as interesting as the conclusion.

1) Kill Your Parents - I believe that Billy says something about Belgium here, so that prompts me to think that it was recorded there. There are a good handful of shows in the likely time frame (1991/1992); only a few have known recordings. Speaking of which...

Good call. I hadn't gotten to Kill Your Parents yet, but I'll definitely keep this in mind when trying to pinpoint a date.

3) Do we really know that Coming Attractions was taped off the radio? It sounds to me like someone talking at the venue with a ********** track. SBDs can sound exactly like that. The waitresses thing and all that. It just doesn't fit the radio format.

I agree - it does appear more logical if it came from a guy talking on a stage. The date is probably Nov 29th then, just adjust the site of the recording to the Point (which is good, I couldn't figure out what radio station it would have been).

Sorry to seem so bitchy

Not a problem. I didn't address a few things that I didn't know the answer to, hopefully other people will. Thaaaaaaaaaanks for the insight!

[Boycott Graceland]

Originally posted by sarmatianus
4) Also a question just posed in the SP/Zwan forum: is Cinder really a very early and rough form of Silverfuck? There are some parts that are very similar in riffs, cadences, and timing.

i always thought it was.

one other thing: i don't think we need the lyrics for any of the tracks in the faq. afterall, that's what the MP section at spfc.org is for.

good job, though. when can we expect an update?

[severin]

kill your parents is from 1992-01-17, bxl, brussels, belgium, right before silverfuck kicks in

[sarmatianus]

Originally posted by Sehki
Again, a fair point. The FAQ obviously has major editing to go through, though I think in some way the detective work is interesting. Once I get most of the track-by-track stuff done, I'm going to comb through and streamline information so as to be presented in a quicker way, though the trail I think is just as interesting as the conclusion.

Something else I'd like to ask - is there any reason why we still need an MP FAQ specifically? I think that there will always be interest in a breakdown of the tracks, as D4 started. But I think that now that MP has gone public and the leet mystique is gone, perhaps the FAQ section should be retired. We don't have FAQs on the Gravity Demos or the Friends and Enemies tape.

As far as I'm concerned at this point, the relevant information is that Billy made a small handful of copies of this in 1994 and a few months prior to this, it started spreading and eventually went public. It's wonderful, I'm grateful to everyone involved, I love the music. But at this point, it's rather hard to justify pages upon pages of every single step in the release of MP in the last 8 years. Mind you, that's just my opinion.

What I'd really like to see if D4's format followed, finished, and updated where necessary. It's quick, it's uncluttered, and it tends to be as unambiguous as you can. For example - availability. It's not relevant. If the show is IDed as X date, I can get that show if I want to hear the whole thing. If it's from X studio sessions, if they're circulating, I can get them. It should be obvious that things without exact ID may be the only extant sources known. Otherwise we'd have the info, right?

Some other quibbles, but as I stated before, my personal preference is to drop the FAQ and keep as close to the Asselin/Fresko format as possible.

[Axis of Action]

Originally posted by sarmatianus

drop the FAQ and keep as close to the Asselin/Fresko format as possible.

Does anyone else think this?

If it's a popular idea then maybe I'll have to change it.

[Smiley]

Originally posted by Sehki
Does anyone else think this?

If it's a popular idea then maybe I'll have to change it.

I like the idea of keeping the FAQ. It's cool to have a record of what actually went down... like where the Coyle tape came from and all that. It explains everything, for people who don't know what MP is. That way you don't have to refer someone to the breakdown and explain what MP is. It does it all-in-one.

[Jesse Miller]

Originally posted by Sehki


Does anyone else think this?

If it's a popular idea then maybe I'll have to change it.

What's the point of writing an extensive FAQ on something everyone is just going to hear for themselves anyways? This is really beating a goat that already has the plague...

Example: The old 666 FAQ. It's completely obsolete because everyone has or has seen the video. I can't tell you the last time I've read/seen the FAQ somewhere. The little bits of relative info could easily fit into the SP FAQ, and just do away with an entire FAQ on a "rare" boot that isn't rare at all. The same could go with this MP FAQ.

[Axis of Action]

Originally posted by Jesse Miller


What's the point of writing an extensive FAQ on something everyone is just going to hear for themselves anyways?

We now have a third category.

Keep FAQ the way it is: 3

Just the FAQs (har har): 1

No FAQ: 1

[sarmatianus]

Originally posted by Sehki


We now have a third category.

Keep FAQ the way it is: 2

Just the FAQs (har har): 1

No FAQ: 1

Who voted for the middle option? I don't think that's what Jesse meant.

[Dead]

Reading the last few post on this thread brings one word to mind.

*sigh*

I could further clarify but that would take thinking and I'm tired. Enjoy your fridays.

[Axis of Action]

So, yeah, this project kinda died.

Anyone still interested in my work on it? Or no?

[RumoredToTheS&N]

well, i'm pretty interested in it, but i agree that things like lyrics could probably be left out. the translations of the non-english stuff is very cool, though. i don't like the parts that say "this song can be found on 56 different bootlegs". i don't really care about different performances of that particular song, i'm more interested in which show that particular performance came from. other than that, i think it's great. years from now when i dig up all of this shit again, it'll be nice to have something that reminds me what all of it is.

[MstrGhost]

Originally posted by RumoredToTheS&N
well, i'm pretty interested in it, but i agree that things like lyrics could probably be left out. the translations of the non-english stuff is very cool, though.

[Axis of Action]

S&N makes me think S&M... yeah... annnnnnnnnyhow...

All right, cool. I'll go about reworking it sometime soon... maybe this weekend, see what I can do.

[RumoredToTheS&N]

yep. that's me. RumoredToTheSadism&Masochism.