How is Billy gonna play the old SP now

[TuralyonW3]

Originally posted by vbshlofbvgos
Billy just needs to get a producer that will kick his ass. During the recording of Mellon Collie it seemed that Flood had some control of what songs made it on the album. After that it seems like Billy has had complete control of everything. He needs someone he can trust to tell him when something sucks.

Yeah but Flood produced on Machina as well right (correct me if I'm wrong) and it's full of masturbatory BC stuff.

[vbshlofbvgos]

Originally posted by TuralyonW3


Yeah but Flood produced on Machina as well right (correct me if I'm wrong) and it's full of masturbatory BC stuff.

thats partially my point. i've never heard anything about flood's input on machina.

[TuralyonW3]

Originally posted by vbshlofbvgos

thats partially my point. i've never heard anything about flood's input on machina.

ohhhhh ok

['|' jIMMY '|']

you said it!

[mydogrocks]

I think BC will fall back to the majesty of the live Silverfuck days.

I say this because I go through mindless looping phases of SP songs and the Silverfuck from the Vancouver show is on rotation today.

I noticed the first half of this version with the constant layering of the echoed sirens & bells & and the monontonious bass line is a slight foreshadowning of the song structure he uses for the Future Embrace IMHO.

The never-ending wandering sonic phuck is something he's just to terribly good at not to continue. I think he enjoys creating those monsters anyway.

I am also with the camp that believes w/o James the dynamic will definately be different. He seemed to have a great sense of timing and harmony that complimented all the songs especially live. BC might have taken over the guitar recording, but the live songs where always helped by James.

That being said if James does decline the invite who knows there might be another guitarist who adds a different but equalling satisfying dynamic to SP.

[youngod]

Originally posted by Mariner


i.e. d'arcy circa 1992-1996, i.e. when the band was in its prime.




ugh. kids, let's just put it this way:

Billy & James writing/recording together: I Am One, Soma, Mayonaise, Zero, etc.

Billy, D'arcy, James, & Jimmy recording live/all together: XYU, The Aeroplane Flies High, Pissant, Glynis, Beautiful, Farewell & Goodnite

Billy, James, and D'arcy recording live: Shame

Billy, James, and Jimmy in studio: Age of Innocence, Untitled

Billy, James, Jimmy, and D'arcy all working in the studio: M C I S, parts of Machina and Machina II

Billy, alone but with at least two of the other band members around/in the studio/in his life: To Sheila, Soothe, Autumn, Stumbleine

Billy & Jimmy recording together with at least a presence/influence of D'arcy and James: SD

Billy & Jimmy working/recording/performing together: DIA, Lokicat

Billy, Jimmy, and other folk: MSOTS

Billy left to his own devices: Strayz, Pretty, Pretty STAR, Walking Shade, Sorrows (In Blue), I'm Ready, Now (And Then), A100, Mina Loy (M.O.H.), etc.

do you not understand the concept of writing songs?any damned hired musician,if you trust them can help you work out songs.ive been in a band for a number of years and have put out records.all of the material you just posted as written by billy,the only difference with his solo and SP/zwan is that he is not a rock act...in those bands he wrote for a rock act,which in turns means bringing other people into the game and that doesnt necesserily make their opinions very prominent.

[youngod]

thats partially my point. i've never heard anything about flood's input on machina. [/quote]


flood had more impact on machina than any other record BTW.

[vbshlofbvgos]

Originally posted by youngod

thats partially my point. i've never heard anything about flood's input on machina.

flood had more impact on machina than any other record BTW. [/quote]

what impact? i'd like to know more of what went on in the studio during this time.

[pineapple*soul]

Originally posted by youngod
[b]

flood had more impact on machina than any other record BTW.

more as an engineer than a producer though
in effect, billy produced and flood engineered machina

[spank_thru101]

though I love the work that Flood and Alan Moulder have done (mainly their contributions to NIN's Downward Spiral and the double album masterpiece The Fragile) I think Billy needs a more technical/commercial producer who is all about singles and big production value.....so bring in Mr. Vig please, if not him I would suggest Michael Beinhorn (RHCP, Soundgarden, Hole, Korn, Violent Femmes, Marilyn Manson).

[spank_thru101]

though also (and dont flame me for this) it would be interesting to see Billy forced to work with a minimalist producer like Steve Albini (though this would never happen for obvious reasons...they hate each other) it would be cool to see the results of a stripped back raw rock record by Billy.

[pineapple*soul]

im not sure, but isnt albini thanked in tfe liner notes?

['|' jIMMY '|']

he did? *checks at the life notes* yep! there it is!










...

[tenfold]

Originally posted by youngod



do you not understand the concept of writing songs?any damned hired musician,if you trust them can help you work out songs.

this makes me think of something Lennon once said of the Beatles, how he wanted to let other people in the band, so its usually the artist whos willing to try new things, but the fans usually have the Spice Girls mentality. Look what happen to the Spice Girls when one of there membes quit, Spice who?

I think the Pumpkins old Pumpkins songs will be relevant to play again, possibly medleys played of older stuff in between newer material. But I think Billys jig is this, that if he dosent stay relevant in the music industry for his body of work, then he wont have a door open for the older material. The songs can have the same freshness from 10 years ago.

[pineapple*soul]

really i think this is billy's way of getting back to writing new 'pumpkins' material, he's spent 5 years avoiding it, i think he's started to realise its what he does best

[Corganist]

Originally posted by pineapple*soul
really i think this is billy's way of getting back to writing new 'pumpkins' material, he's spent 5 years avoiding it, i think he's started to realise its what he does best

This is pretty much what I think. In the end, I think writing songs under the SP moniker gives Billy a freedom that he didn't have in Zwan or even, strangely enough, his solo career. SP has never had to sound like anything, be it their old material, other bands, etc. Billy just wrote songs he wanted to, and put them out. But since then, he's been trying so hard to be different than SP. Presumably, that means that he's been throwing out songs he likes because they don't fit whatever Zwan/Djali/Chicago acoustic/TFE vibe he's been striving for at various times.

I think putting out SP songs will be good for him, because he'll just write without concern for people's judgment of the sound. I think that's probably worth the trouble. I doubt the point of this reunion is because he's really chomping at the bit to play 1979 or BWBW for the 800th time.

[spank_thru101]

I am surprised about that Albini liner notes thing, Albini has said some smack about the pumpkins over the years. As for him coming back I doubt it has anything to do with him wanting to write in the vein of the pumpkins, that may have a small part, but duh Billy wants his fame and glory back. You see while Billy is talented and gifted at music he is one of those few who are more famous for not what they have created but what they have said and done (i.e. Fred Durst, Courtney Love, Marilyn Manson, Colin Farrel, etc...the list goes on).
We all know Billy loves the spotlight.

[Corganist]

Originally posted by spank_thru101
I am surprised about that Albini liner notes thing, Albini has said some smack about the pumpkins over the years. As for him coming back I doubt it has anything to do with him wanting to write in the vein of the pumpkins, that may have a small part, but duh Billy wants his fame and glory back. You see while Billy is talented and gifted at music he is one of those few who are more famous for not what they have created but what they have said and done (i.e. Fred Durst, Courtney Love, Marilyn Manson, Colin Farrel, etc...the list goes on).
We all know Billy loves the spotlight.

I respectfully disagree. As much as Billy loves the fame and fortune, he doesn't love it for its own sake. He's all about proving people wrong, getting famous by doing things his way, corrupting the system from within (or without). He's not gonna get any of that by playing greatest hits sets to packed arenas. He'd much rather do it the hard way so he can thumb his nose at the doubters and say "I told you so". If he was gonna do the SP reunion in such a way that it would appear that he was crawling back to what works, he wouldn't do it.

[TheDeuce]

Originally posted by Jerome
i can't wait to hear what new way he comes up with to fuck it all up

I liked this thread though. Good convo.

[DamingR]

Based on what Billy has been saying about "Grinding you into the dust with the metal," I believe that he's planning on a big, over the top guitar rock record. I think that he has something to prove after lackluster sales of the last couple albums. Plus, he hasn't put a really good heavy rock song on an album in a long time. I think that he's somewhat satisfied with the critical praise of TFE and can now return to the rock.

Based on the number of songs we saw in the very short Zwan period, you have to believe that he has a lot of material lying around. He has to have some bad-ass rock anthems in that pile.

Maybe we'll get something along the lines of The Arising! tour.

[Luke de Spa]

Originally posted by David

thank you. someone has a unclouded mind here.

Ooh, Sith Corgan.

Someone do a Darth Maul Corgan Photoshop mashup. I can't be bothered.

[oddhandle]

Although the last time he did a "big rock record" we got the Machina albums. Eh. Maybe that was the sound of the band breaking up, I don't know..

I hope he doesn't go in thinking "metal record" or "no guitar overdubs" or "live to tape" or whatever. No gimmicks. Just spend time on the songs, and do whatever they need. Don't worry about an album concept or some overall message.

The Pumpkins sound was defined by his voice, and the sense that the songs were a notch above anything else. That's it.

[spank_thru101]

Originally posted by Corganist

I respectfully disagree. As much as Billy loves the fame and fortune, he doesn't love it for its own sake. He's all about proving people wrong

So that why he contradicts himself so much...I completely respect your opinion and I agree with you on the whole proving people they were wrong by making a great comeback record, but I think Billy is smart enough to know that:
A His time has come and gone and the only way he will ever play arenas again is by playing old SP hits
B Billy himself has changed, he is not the same pissed off 27 year old and he can't write like one anymore

Though if he does take on the pumpkins again (though I would love to see James and Darcy in the band and without them only makes me believe more that a reunion is about money and not music) I will be all ears and all aprreciattive to hear what he has up his sleeve.

[deadbirdie]

Smashing Pumpkins without James & D'Arcy is like Wham! without Andrew Ridgley.

[deadbirdie]

" "

[TuralyonW3]

Despite what people say, I think that TFE is less "Billy without the James/Darcy/Jimmy filter" and more just a phase of his career. In other words, even if the pumpkins never broke up, I think that Billy would have eventually had the band do a "technoish" album similar to TFE. Would it have sounded different if it were an SP album? How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootise pop. The world may never know.

[Nimrod's Son]

Originally posted by SpFission
Yea, I would want James back too, but I still don't how this reformation would suffer any more without James. James was there for Machina, and I don't think it was that good.... and as much as people want to say there was a chemistry component there, I still think Jimmy and Billy were the core of the Pumpkins, and they are still capable of writing some compelling music together...but of course I'm an optimist.

Zwan's on line 1.

Yes, they will hold.

[Know it All]

he should have a great new band, with amazing energy, a band that is about to plung out from the woods in vegas...

an opening band can change everything about a show, he should have... www.myspace.com/awakenasone AWAKEN AS ONE open for him maybe??? goood sounds

or it can stay in vegass

[DeviousJ]

Originally posted by Know it All
he should have a great new band, with amazing energy, a band that is about to plung out from the woods in vegas...

an opening band can change everything about a show, he should have... www.myspace.com/awakenasone AWAKEN AS ONE open for him maybe??? goood sounds

or it can stay in vegass

Stop spamming posts about your band dude