Monuments to an Elegy drinking game

[Gollum]

Oceania seems way more crafted to me. And it sounds like Bill spent more time on the vocals and they sit a little better in the songs.

Zeitgeist has that single whiny voice out in the middle nowhere, flat, and singing stupid lyrics.

Somehow Bill made the vocals and lyrics on MTAE way worse than ZG which is quite a feat.

[thedeadofnight]

Originally Posted by Butt Pope

Drink every time you can't comprehend that Run2Me was written by the same guy who wrote Mouth of Babes

Lol was thinking the same thing with Anti-Hero and Porcelina

[Elphenor]

Oash had some decent tracks

Some ZG songs are pretty jamming for like the first ten seconds then the vocals kick in and it's like "Holy fuck so much cringe turn it off"
drink drink drink

[Mals Marola]

zeit was better than oceania, though i've definitely warmed to the latter a little bit by this point

MTAE, while not a great album, has some great songs that i actually want to listen to on their own merits. if anything it's a good validation for why teargarden is still a thing, you can just choose yer favs, put 'em with yer other favs from the past 3 years, and call it the newest sp

[Elphenor]

No it's not. That's stupid

TBK is dead. It's not a thing anymore.

[Elphenor]

Let's just consider the last 10 years of material as the same album and then we can pick our favorites and then we can say Corgan's last album was GREAT

[Mals Marola]

he's literally gone on record as saying Monuments to an Elegy is part of Teargarden by Kaleidydieigiedsocpe

are you really going to argue with the artist who's creating all of the stuff about what "category" it goes into, it's not exactly revisionist history

[Elphenor]

Of course he's saying that to save himself the embarrassment of bitching out of the project

TBK was 44 songs released as singles. Then he scrapped that idea and just made an album.

[Mals Marola]

obviously if he were to try and lump earlier material in with this it would be bullshit, but when he pre-determined the inclusions before putting them out? it's his decision, nobody's forcing anyone to actually acknowledge it or participate in the whole scheme of things or whatever, but when it pretty much encourages taking yer favorite tracks of the bunch and even having that "7 minute plus" song with a fair share of guitar solos or whatever else people have complained about for the most recent album, it makes for a more enjoyable, singular listening experience at least

[Elphenor]

It doesn't though because the albums don't really even sound alike. If you put TBK, Oash, and Monuments on the same album you're going to have one ugly clash because of the different production

[Elphenor]

If TBK had gone 44 songs with the same line-up and production style then you could make a 12 song album out of the 44 or whatever

[Mals Marola]

monuments sounds more like the tbk stuff than oceania, though that was definitely kind of a misstep in terms of his making the claim believable (oceania's differing production, i mean)

i guess we're expected to master the final products ourselves as well? it's a half-assed claim for sure but one i'm at least willing to take him up on on account of the fact that some of these songs do nolster each other in that way, and would sound pretty complimentary on a collected album or playlist or whatever when all's said & done anyway

[Elphenor]

What pretty obviously happened is he didn't like the reception and lack of attention he was getting with the TBK concept that he probably thought of as revolutionary at the time so he decided to go back to the album format

Then when someone asked him "Well what about TBK" he was like "Umm it's still part of it, sure"

[Mals Marola]

the first thing he did when announcing oceania was call it an "album within an album"

which, among other things (the different lineup,) makes it all the more strange that MTAE sounds much more like a part of the project than "Oash"

[werideatdusk]

I dont know for the life of me how people can like Zeitgeist more than Oceania. To each his own I guess. If Oceania had Jimmy drumming on it people would see that it's twice the album Zeit was - better songs, better flow, and above all, a hell of a lot more emotion and heart. And even though "ODOH" is kind of embarrassing, it doesnt have anything truly abominable along the lines of "Pomp and Circumstances".... (shudder)

Though I have to say, "The Chimera" sucks a fat one.

[Elphenor]

[Mals Marola]

oceania's a watered down version of what he was trying to do with zeitgeist - give people a "rock album" that they wanted - but without jimmy, and with what seems like an even more pandering corgan

fortunately for them this actually worked on people who didn't give quite as much a shit about the band as, say, someone who posts on netphoria, but for everyone else, it was just kind of there.

[Mals Marola]

like i said though, after i actually heard (consciously) the second half the album, started warming up to it

yet the tracks i liked the most seem to be among the least popular, a common trend it seems like from adore onward

[thedeadofnight]

Doomsday Clock > Quasar
7 Shades < Panopticon
Orchid > Celestials
That's the Way > Violet Rays
Tarantula > My Love is Winter
Starz > One Diamond
United States > Pinwheels
Neverlost < Oceania
Bring the Light < Pale Horse
Come on Let's Go = The Chimera
God and Country < Glissandra
Pomp < Inkless
Stellar/Ma Belle/Zeitgeist/Death From Above > Wildflower

Zeitgeist 7
Oceania 5
Plus a tie

Not much in it but Zeitgeist by a hair

[werideatdusk]

Originally Posted by Mals Marola

oceania's a watered down version of what he was trying to do with zeitgeist - give people a "rock album" that they wanted - but without jimmy, and with what seems like an even more pandering corgan

i just completely disagree. Oceania has a lot of different styles. If it's such a straight ahead rock album what are things like Violet Rays, One Diamond One Heart, Pinwheels, Pale Horse, and Wildflower doing on there? To say nothing of the variations in all the more "rock" songs - the psych of Quasar, the shoegaze of MLIW, and the funky prog bits in The Celestials. Inkless has a really pretty middle section where the guitars and drums cut out. Glissandra is very musically inventive and is far removed from the kind of hard riff rockers of Zeitgeist.

I have my qualms with Oceania - the production is way too antiseptic, especially on the drums. The guitars sound amazing but are too quiet and weak in the mix. And some of Nicole's bass parts are a bit OTT (nothing as bad as owata thank god). Chimera is a dud and I could see why some people would object to Quasar being a Gish soundalike, or Inkless, Celestials or Panopticon borrowing too much from the SD/MCIS sound. But to me there's enough variation that it's forgiveable, besides those are really good songs (particularly Panopticon).

Zeitgeist has a few songs that are really good but there's no variety, and that's the killer. Every SP album prior had been a lot more of a sonic, dynamic journey. Zeitgeist is just punch your soul to dust with metal for 35 minutes, and throw in a couple softer songs near the end, none of which are very good. Jimmy is awesome on it. And I still really like United States, and Tarantula, and a couple others (Come On Let's Go is way underappreciated). But mostly it just lacks that dynamic, emotional journey, which is there on Oceania if you can get past whatever you need to get past.

[Mals Marola]

i don't know, maybe i'm somewhat biased based on the fact that i've been listening to the silver edition for the past couple of years, but even red has an obvious semblance of variety

surely you don't actually think there's no shift in character/approaches between a group of tracks like 7 shades, that's the way, neverlost, and god & country

i actually like oceania somewhat now, though i'll probably never throw away the belief that those first 2 tracks are the lamest pair of samey rock songs i've ever heard back-to-back opening an album in my life

glissandra's one of my top 3 tracks on "the oach" and it seems to be one of probably 2 most hated from the record so clearly there's some difference of opinion re: this album in general

[Order 66]

i thought zeigeist was a riff on heavier SP of yore. as oceania was to the psychedelic shoegazy stuff

i think that's why it's so divisive.. it's really about what side of the old band you prefer

[Elphenor]

Quasar really does suck

[Elphenor]

ZG was like Nu-metal in that it was trying to be heavier but was tame as fuck

[Mals Marola]

say what you want about nu-metal, it was hardly "tame"

[Mals Marola]

I'VE GOT A MOTHAFUCKIN CHAINSAW

[werideatdusk]

Originally Posted by Order 66

i thought zeigeist was a riff on heavier SP of yore. as oceania was to the psychedelic shoegazy stuff

i think that's why it's so divisive.. it's really about what side of the old band you prefer

this is a good point.

i really enjoy all the aspects of the old SP. but the key difference between the heavy rock of say, Silverfuck, Bodies, Fuck You, Dross, etc... versus Doomsday Clock, 7 Shades of Black, United States... is that Corgan's not selling it. He's obviously not as pissed and crazy as he used to be, he's kind of a boring old guy. So why try to make pissed and crazy music? It's just gonna suck. And it did suck. Plus, the old band was honed by having to play hundreds of concerts forging a sound in a room together that would crush people. Billy and Jimmy were two millionaires in a house in Scottsdale wanking around with riffs.

At least on MtAE he seems content to just make fun rock in the vein of Cars/Boston/Cheap Trick and even Motley Crue, and not make some kind of cathartic personal expression out of it.

It'd be really nice if Billy got Wilk to stick around, and they all played together, writing songs together and testing em out on the road before recording them. But he's just very comfortable and complacent. It'll be so much easier once he finally gives up the gauntlet, settles into reality, and starts making whatever music he fucking wants to.

[werideatdusk]

and i love Quasar btw... stuff like that, SuperChrist, March Hare, Gossamer, Set the Controls... that's what I wish he'd be focusing on.

[pottsynz]

What happened to the drinking game?

[pumpkins]

Take a shot every time Zeitgeist is better than Oceanea and Monuments together. You'd be drunk after Doomsday Clock. Doomsday Clock alone is better than the whole other two albums together. And I'm not even a great fan of Zeitgeis.