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Old 04-14-2018, 09:16 PM   #1
Grox
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Default examples of Billy speeding up and making everyone/Jimmy play faster

everyone says he did this a lot, particularly people i know that saw the band in the 90s. i've never been able to spot it on an audio or video recording. anyone got any examples? obvious or not. genuinely curious

 
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:28 PM   #2
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His timing has always been impeccable.. he and jimmy aren’t metronomic perfect but they are *always* in time with each other.

When BC has mike Byrne behind him, the timing issues were way more apparent.

Darcy’s complaint about their timing is interesting, as they’ve both complained about hers. Doesn’t matter though because they always (including Darcy) sounded great together.

 
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:31 PM   #3
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Ram27 to thread
http://forums.netphoria.org/showthre...ght=jellybelly

 
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Old 04-14-2018, 10:31 PM   #4
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lol hi. love the thread idea grox

I'm not sure I've ever seen Billy speed up live and make the band play faster. Of course, there's the last Metro show where Jimmy starts Fuck You crazy fast and winks at Billy

Jimmy, seemingly, is usually the one eager to push the tempo. see how fast he starts Geek during the 94 shows

I'd also love live examples of this, but it always seemed, at least to me, like a thing that happened during rehearsal:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy
Some of that stuff really went off the rails. That’s the thing about Corgan, he always wants to push things live. I introduced him to starting songs off on a click when we toured with Manson, he was like ‘it sounds so much better this way’ and I was like ‘yeah!’

 
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Old 04-15-2018, 01:15 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paranoid View Post
His timing has always been impeccable.. he and jimmy aren’t metronomic perfect but they are *always* in time with each other.

Darcy’s complaint about their timing is interesting, as they’ve both complained about hers. Doesn’t matter though because they always (including Darcy) sounded great together.
Where was that complaint? One of the more recent interviews / articles?

I've read that Jimmy has said the opposite about D'arcy. There was a quote on here (I'll never find it) about how he thought she had really good timing.

IDK about *always* but per BC during an XM radio interview, he and JC have that "weird thingy going on for sure".

 
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Old 04-15-2018, 03:21 AM   #6
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On the MCIS tour they played some of the songs ridiculously fast just in general. Particularly WBFTT, Zero, and XYU.

 
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Old 04-15-2018, 03:38 AM   #7
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Butch Vig (2012 interview):

"He [Jimmy Chamberlin] and Billy Corgan really have a special dynamic...how they play. It's very hypnotic and I think that was the secret to the Pumpkins sound...it had this kind of sexy swagger in a way...very hypnotic...and...the only way I can describe it is they had this push pull thing and they were locked into each other..."

 
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Old 04-15-2018, 06:43 AM   #8
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ur father likes to speed up

 
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Old 04-15-2018, 10:19 AM   #9
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I would say Jimmy is the one who speeds up, but it's in a good way.

James is always so far behind the beat it's like he's on xanax. I blame the weird way he holds a pick.

 
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Old 04-15-2018, 10:44 AM   #10
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Modern Drummer Interview with Jimmy Chamberlin, January 1994:


Quote:
MP: But you went out of your way to tighten the tempo this time. All the songs seem to be more in-the-pocket than anything on Gish.

JC: There was the feeling that, "Hey, this is our first major-label record. It's gotta be consistent." We didn't want it to sound helter-skelter. But I'm kind of scared, too, that people will think it sounds like a major-label record. I mean, everything I hear on a major label sounds like it was done to a click. By my own nature, i just hate click tracks and I don't like to adhere to any set meter the whole way through a song. But I don't want people to think I waver too much, either.

Quote:
MP: You mentioned how you changed snare drums often for this record, which I think is kind of funny, because the snare sound on Gish was immediately identifiable. Even though it was your first record, all you had to do was listen to the drums, particularly the snare pop, and know that it was you playing.

JC: Well, I don't want to become reliant on or known for any one particular sound. I don't want to use tones to define my sound; I'd rather use technique. I'd rather have somebody hear the song speed up in an area or listen to the way the drums push the vocals–or maybe how the drums can be minimal at one point and blazing the next–and know it's me and my schizophrenic personality. [laughs]

Quote:
MP: What was it like when you first joined, stepping into a band that had only used a drum machine as its drummer up to that point?

JC: It was basically a process of me deprogramming them. I went in with the idea that if they wanted Jimmy Chamberlin to play drums, it wasn't going to sound like a click track. They used to give me weird looks sometimes. [Bassist] D'arcy would be like, "Gee, could you speed up a little faster?" [laughs] They were so used to this flat tempo that it was hard for them to get used to the music with some movement behind it. But I'll be the first one to admit that my meter was a problem, even through the last record and tour. It's always been a challenge for me to not let my adrenaline get the best of me when we play live. We've gotten to the point now where D'arcy and I know where each other is coming from, and we can play together pretty effortlessly.

http://www.spfc.org/news-press/inter...ontent_id=2788





Matt Walker: From Pumpkins To Cupcakes


Quote:
Chamberlin eventually re-joined the band, but the experience left Walker with techniques he continues to incorporate into his playing style. “Touring with Filter,” he recalls, “the entire set was played to a click track. I had to be locked but still make the music feel like it was moving forward. I couldn’t be too much on top of it. But with The Pumpkins, Billy [Corgan] always wanted the music to be propelling forward tempo-wise, literally speeding up and launching choruses and bridges.

“Rushing like that was really difficult at first,” Walker admits, “because I’d spent my entire life practicing to be steady and consistent. Suddenly, I had to make this emotive, natural transition.”
As a result, Matt says he’s learned to approach his playing more emotionally and less technically. “Even if I am playing to a click, I find a way to propel the arrangement from section to section.”
https://www.moderndrummer.com/2002/05/matt-walker/

 
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Old 04-15-2018, 11:03 AM   #11
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I've also read about jimmy complaining about d'arcy's tempo throwing off his drum takes that he'd ask her NOT to play while he was recording...

 
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Old 04-15-2018, 01:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
once we all agree upon a ‘final’ arrangement, we play together until one of 3 things happens: we get the take all playing together, we don’t get the take all playing together, or Jimmy complains to me that James and D’arcy’s playing is throwing him off and asks me to remove them from playing along at all…there are various incarnations of the third option, which could be Jimmy asking Butch to town them down in the headphones, or asking me to lose James but keep D’arcy or the other way around

because this is a new album and a fresh opportunity, there is a sense in the air that this time around the recording and the associated processes will be different…any variation in the beginning of the album of the ‘let’s all do it together’ concept causes immediate tension, and Butch is squarely placed in the middle...this is something I bristle at, but at the same time realize that it is possibly a means to an end

James has a very good memory, and the recording issues with him normally center around timing and tightness…D’arcy on the other hand commonly gets completely lost, which throws off Jimmy’s concentration, blowing the take…in addition, he hates her sense of timing, and the way it makes his drum takes fly all over (we know as we record that we will not keep anything that the 3 of us record, we are simply there to assist Jimmy to play with the right ‘feel’)...
.

 
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Old 04-15-2018, 03:53 PM   #13
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I heard that Billy went to a restaurant and ate all the food in the restaurant and they had to close the restaurant

 
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Old 04-15-2018, 06:35 PM   #14
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oh, like you're doing right now?

 
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Old 04-16-2018, 04:24 AM   #15
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The feel and groove is definitely JC and BC. That's evident when you listen to Oceania or MTAE (as in, it's missing). Even GLOW or FOL has that Pumpkins swagger.

The new songs will hopefully follow suit.

Last edited by eviltimeban : 04-16-2018 at 10:43 AM.

 
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:15 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butt Pope View Post
I heard that Billy went to a restaurant and ate all the food in the restaurant and they had to close the restaurant
poor restaurant

 
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:25 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eviltimeban View Post
The feel and groove is definitely JC and BC. That's evident when you listen to Oceania or MTAE.
Yes those albums have some of the best tightly locking grooves between BC and JC

 
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Old 04-16-2018, 07:01 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashingjj View Post
Yes those albums have some of the best tightly locking grooves between BC and JC
As in, what's missing with Mike Byrne on the drums. Obviously.

 
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Old 04-16-2018, 07:25 AM   #19
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what the

 
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:09 AM   #20
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There was an interview (maybe a Jimmy drum clinic?) where he explained how he makes insanely tiny adjustments to the tempo as the song proceeds, like one or two beats per minute increase for the chorus. These are the kinds of things other drummers fight against.

For the record, I think on the Matt Walker shows of the MCIS tour you can hear how the steadier drumming allowed Billy & James to play together better.

 
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Old 04-16-2018, 07:44 PM   #21
teh b0lly!!1
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re: op

hello kitty kat

cash car star

united states

 
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Old 04-16-2018, 07:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpee View Post
There was an interview (maybe a Jimmy drum clinic?) where he explained how he makes insanely tiny adjustments to the tempo as the song proceeds, like one or two beats per minute increase for the chorus. These are the kinds of things other drummers fight against.

For the record, I think on the Matt Walker shows of the MCIS tour you can hear how the steadier drumming allowed Billy & James to play together better.
he's bullshitting and trying to make himself appear better than he really is.

he can't help it, and it's definitely not very calculated. his adrenaline gets the best of him; it's just his personality, his character. he's a bull, always charging forward with immense power and driving the music. the fact that he didn't try to tame it, but went with it and made that his trademark is part of what makes him such a special drummer. fresh approach. you'll never find drummers doing this today in "click era".

 
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:35 AM   #23
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The end of Rocket is clearly slower than the rest of it. Meant to be that way?

 
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Old 04-17-2018, 05:35 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 View Post
re: op

hello kitty kat

cash car star

united states
Good examples. also does anyone remember that thread here a couple years ago about tempo analysis of some SP songs? I thought it was really interesting that "I of the Mourning" gradually increases in tempo throughout the entire song.

 
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Old 04-17-2018, 08:37 PM   #25
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That was super cool. I think that site's broken now

I want more nerdy technical threads

or guitar swings

 
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Old 04-17-2018, 08:38 PM   #26
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actually just guitar swings

 
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Old 04-18-2018, 01:15 AM   #27
teh b0lly!!1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eviltimeban View Post
The end of Rocket is clearly slower than the rest of it. Meant to be that way?
yes

 
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Old 04-18-2018, 01:47 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpee View Post
For the record, I think on the Matt Walker shows of the MCIS tour you can hear how the steadier drumming allowed Billy & James to play together better.
Yeah SP with Matt Walker is strangely mainstream sounding. It's like they're playing with a drum machine again.

 
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Old 04-18-2018, 02:28 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 View Post
cash car star
B: Jimmy?
J: Yeah boss?
B: I've written another song for you to play
J: Sounds good
B: This one is different. See the song itself is not good. Like at all.
J: You want me to shred so hard on it that i bend time and nobody notices?
B: You know it.

 
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:05 AM   #30
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we're an american band for you

His snare sound on that is fucking perfect

 
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