Netphoria Message Board


Go Back   Netphoria Message Board > Archives > Music Board Archive
Register Netphoria's Amazon.com Link Members List Mark Forums Read

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-02-2018, 11:55 AM   #1
Mals Marola
Socialphobic
 
Mals Marola's Avatar
 
Location: Your god damn living room
Posts: 10,000
Red face Other bands with James/D'arcy situations

I was talkin' with someone today about The Holy Bible by Manic Street Preachers, and when we got to talking about Richey Edwards & his role in the band I said I thought it seemed like a James/D'arcy situation where he had a minimal presence on the records but was a huge part of the band's image & persona.

Another one could I guess be Happy Mondays, with Bez, though I don't know how much they actually "inducted" him as a full-on member of the band. & after reading Peter Hook's book on New Order, it seems Gillian Gilbert was a similar situation as well

One thing at least half of these have in common is that despite the arrangement, when these members left their respective bands for even a finite amount of time, fans complained that the music "wasn't as good" because of it

I dunno, seemed like a good diversion from all the Monuments to an Allergy talk, so have at it

 
Mals Marola is offline
Old 11-02-2018, 12:15 PM   #2
Catherine Wheel
Banned
 
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 6,310
Default

James has songwriting credits on mayonnaise and soma and I am one. Those are considered important songs by most fans. You could say that Darcy was all image / no substance but not James.

 
Catherine Wheel is offline
Old 11-02-2018, 12:42 PM   #3
Catherine Wheel
Banned
 
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 6,310
Default

As far as Mellon collie didn’t he also co-write farewell and goodnight another song that is considered important and he came up with guitar solo for zero and love even though he’s not credited. He really did play enough songwriting role with first three albums to say he’s more than just a pretty face.

 
Catherine Wheel is offline
Old 11-02-2018, 02:00 PM   #4
Mals Marola
Socialphobic
 
Mals Marola's Avatar
 
Location: Your god damn living room
Posts: 10,000
Default

I said minimal presence on the records not none ya fuckin' TIT

 
Mals Marola is offline
Old 11-02-2018, 02:33 PM   #5
FoolofaTook
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
FoolofaTook's Avatar
 
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
Posts: 37,215
Default

he's just trying to get ppl riled up by talking shit about darcy

that's some low level trollationing, kimono sharter. i would know.

 
FoolofaTook is offline
Old 11-02-2018, 05:33 PM   #6
Catherine Wheel
Banned
 
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 6,310
Default

James doesn’t have a minimal presence on sp songs. That’s what I’m trying to say. I don’t agree. His Role in the band is a lot like Kim thayils role in soundgarden to me. James has way too many songwriting credits in early days of band for me to see him as having a minimal presence

 
Catherine Wheel is offline
Old 11-02-2018, 08:00 PM   #7
Zer0 Hour
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Zer0 Hour's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,114
Default

LOL, what? Kim Thayil’s presence is noticeable on like every fucking Soundgarden song.

 
Zer0 Hour is offline
Old 11-02-2018, 08:43 PM   #8
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
Default

The Beatles. George Harrison is a James Iha and D'arcy is a Ringo

 
redbreegull is offline
Old 11-02-2018, 08:44 PM   #9
Catherine Wheel
Banned
 
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 6,310
Default

Kim doesn’t have many songwriting credits on later stuff like down on the upside. But on earlier stuff like superunkown and the one before that he has bigger role. But even on those early albums he’s not songwriter on every song.

 
Catherine Wheel is offline
Old 11-02-2018, 09:13 PM   #10
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catherine Wheel View Post
Kim doesn’t have many songwriting credits on later stuff like down on the upside. But on earlier stuff like superunkown and the one before that he has bigger role. But even on those early albums he’s not songwriter on every song.
He is the focus guitar player in the band. Billy is the primary guitar player in SP, not James. Every single Soundgarden song has what is blatantly obviously Kim Thayil jizzing fat riffs all over it.

James' influence is way more sparse and subtle, and even if you believe he played or wrote parts for most songs, that's a huge assumption we don't have evidence for

 
redbreegull is offline
Old 11-02-2018, 10:08 PM   #11
Sonic Johnny
Through Silver In Buds
 
Sonic Johnny's Avatar
 
Location: Centralia
Posts: 16,502
Default

WTF Kim Thayil is the thing that makes Soundgarden sick. Down on the upside is a snoozer anyway. That's like saying Jerry Cantrell isn't important to Alice In Chains.

 
Sonic Johnny is offline
Old 11-02-2018, 10:13 PM   #12
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
Default

yo Kim Thayil has some sick fucking guitar work on Down on the Upside.

I understand that it's like their Machina, but it's kind of an underrated record IMHO

 
redbreegull is offline
Old 11-02-2018, 10:22 PM   #13
Mals Marola
Socialphobic
 
Mals Marola's Avatar
 
Location: Your god damn living room
Posts: 10,000
Default

I knew I was skirting somewhat close to Cat Wheel territory with this thread but little did I know the Mad Cat would come in & fuck shit up in such a beautiful, trademark way. God bless you Cathy

 
Mals Marola is offline
Old 11-03-2018, 12:20 AM   #14
Slurpee
Minion of Satan
 
Slurpee's Avatar
 
Location: breakfast
Posts: 6,173
Default

Chris, Tina, and Jerry from Talking Heads all played James-ish roles, their influence is there, but it just adds flavor. Byrne is Billy and Eno, when present, is Jimmy. They other three, as one reviewer described them, are just David Byrne's somewhat talented backing band.

And yes, I know about the Tom Tom Club.

 
Slurpee is offline
Old 11-03-2018, 05:06 AM   #15
Catherine Wheel
Banned
 
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 6,310
Default

Ed o Brian comes to mind. Haven’t people remarked over years that he’s the only Radiohead member with no real talent? And what about the bass player for Coldplay? Wasn’t he just hired cus of his looks essentially?

 
Catherine Wheel is offline
Old 11-03-2018, 07:23 AM   #16
smashingjj
real estate cowboy
 
smashingjj's Avatar
 
Location: if Monsanto and Purdue Pharma had a baby
Posts: 36,880
Default

agreed, the talents of their bass player are DWARFED by those of the other Coldplay members

 
smashingjj is offline
Old 11-03-2018, 07:24 AM   #17
Zer0 Hour
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Zer0 Hour's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny View Post
WTF Kim Thayil is the thing that makes Soundgarden sick. Down on the upside is a snoozer anyway. That's like saying Jerry Cantrell isn't important to Alice In Chains.
Hey now, we shouldn’t discount Cornell’s incredible vocal performance. Best singer of the grunge/alternative era, technically at least.

 
Zer0 Hour is offline
Old 11-04-2018, 01:23 AM   #18
Shallowed
Braindead
 
Posts: 18,608
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
The Beatles. George Harrison is a James Iha and D'arcy is a Ringo
Fuck oooooooooff. The George-James comparison is worse than anything Kimono Shithead has ever conjured up.

 
Shallowed is offline
Old 11-04-2018, 01:34 AM   #19
Shallowed
Braindead
 
Posts: 18,608
Default

Bilinda Butcher is kind of like a combination of D'arcy and James, I feel.

She joined the band on the condition that she learned to play guitar. I don't know if she actually plays guitar on any of their records. Definitely not Loveless. When they play live, she often doesn't even play guitar at all. On most live recordings, her guitar is almost always completely inaudible, or extremely quiet.

However she does write a lot of the lyrics and of course sings and is a huge part of MBV's image. See: the To Here Knows When music video.

 
Shallowed is offline
Old 11-04-2018, 08:28 AM   #20
FoolofaTook
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
FoolofaTook's Avatar
 
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
Posts: 37,215
Default

man i don't know. bilinda has an wonderful voice. fits the music perfectly.

 
FoolofaTook is offline
Old 11-04-2018, 01:58 PM   #21
Mals Marola
Socialphobic
 
Mals Marola's Avatar
 
Location: Your god damn living room
Posts: 10,000
Default

Andy Fletcher of Depeche Mode seems to do nothing, or at least very, very little musically in the band & is often credited as their "financial manager" despite having always been credited & presented as a full-on member of the band

Ever since Alan Wilder left the actual musical "core" of the band has basically been Martin, Dave and whoever's producing them at the time

 
Mals Marola is offline
Old 11-04-2018, 01:59 PM   #22
Mals Marola
Socialphobic
 
Mals Marola's Avatar
 
Location: Your god damn living room
Posts: 10,000
Default

Curt Smith of Tears for Fears was relegated from lead vocalist/bassist to bassist/vox on maybe one song if he was lucky and additional "pretty boy" within like an album

 
Mals Marola is offline
Old 11-04-2018, 02:16 PM   #23
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shallowed View Post
Fuck oooooooooff. The George-James comparison is worse than anything Kimono Shithead has ever conjured up.
George Harrison was more talented than any Pumpkin, but I think the dynamic is similar. His guitar style makes a subtle impact in their music but he didn't write very much of it, and when he did attempt to contribute he was often edged out by the more extreme personalities in the band.

the main difference in this analogy is that George proved himself to be an astounding songwriter and musician in his own right once he graduated from the band, and James' most glorious post-band moment was playing Mayonaise live in Japan and having people call it a cover

 
redbreegull is offline
Old 11-04-2018, 02:36 PM   #24
Mals Marola
Socialphobic
 
Mals Marola's Avatar
 
Location: Your god damn living room
Posts: 10,000
Default

There was also the difference of George's Beatles songs being ones you'd often here in "best of Beatles" lists, i.e. Taxman & While My Guitar Gently Weeps. Who's out here reppin' "Blew Away" as a top 5 Pumpkins? Not to undercut James because I do like some of his tracks, but he wasn't really on par with Corgan in the way Harrison was with Lennon/McCartney

 
Mals Marola is offline
Old 11-04-2018, 02:44 PM   #25
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
Default

That is certainly true, but I still think it is a fairly accurate comparison vs. most of the others which have come up ITT. Two guys dominate the band, then there is an underappreciated, understated 3rd person, and a 4th person who actually contributes almost nothing to the creative process, but the 3rd and 4th person are perceived as being critical to the band's identity regardless.

 
redbreegull is offline
Old 11-04-2018, 02:51 PM   #26
myosis
Minion of Satan
 
myosis's Avatar
 
Location: the institute
Posts: 6,421
Default

george played on the records

 
myosis is offline
Old 11-04-2018, 02:52 PM   #27
myosis
Minion of Satan
 
myosis's Avatar
 
Location: the institute
Posts: 6,421
Default

what about the boys in Prodigy?

 
myosis is offline
Old 11-04-2018, 03:06 PM   #28
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by myosis View Post
george played on the records
James also played on the records.

Paul McCartney would also go back and rerecord the parts played by other band members.

 
redbreegull is offline
Old 11-04-2018, 09:09 PM   #29
Mals Marola
Socialphobic
 
Mals Marola's Avatar
 
Location: Your god damn living room
Posts: 10,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by myosis View Post
what about the boys in Prodigy?
I guess if we're going this direction might as well throw in The Real McCoy

 
Mals Marola is offline
Old 11-06-2018, 02:51 AM   #30
Shallowed
Braindead
 
Posts: 18,608
Default

Some bands have a member that is analogous to George Harrison. As in, the under-appreciated occasional songwriter that was allowed a couple of their songs on each album, and were usually the best, or at least stand outs.

Sonic Youth - Lee Ranaldo
The Brian Jonestown Massacre - Matt Hollywood

 
Shallowed is offline
 


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is On
Google


Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are Smashing Pumpkins lyrics (generally) "emo"? The Trashbirds Pumpkins Archive 374 09-29-2008 03:50 PM
i have to do an informative essay in english about ANYTHING D. Music Board Archive 21 09-09-2007 09:51 PM
spinoff: let's hear EVERYBODY's local bands ??? Music Board Archive 29 08-22-2007 05:31 PM
Share bands, songs that you like here Deadeyes Music Board Archive 61 08-13-2007 09:45 AM
ISO: some bands jlo Pumpkins Archive 4 08-22-2002 10:06 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:12 AM.




Smashing Pumpkins, Alternative Music
& General Discussion Message Board and Forums
www.netphoria.org - Copyright © 1998-2022