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03-02-2008, 11:12 PM | #91 |
Minion of Satan
Location: gasoline alley
Posts: 9,017
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As a side note, i think that sometimes our ideas of what is 'natural' is skewed.
People often incorrectly believe that what is natural has to be innately good/correct (people are genetically different and ought be treated differently). Or the opposite: what is good is natural; what ought to be is. (ie: everybody should be treated equally, so there are no genetic differences.) Politics make both errors. The conservatives: 'Nature designed women to be maternal and men to be competitive so women belong at home and men in the workplace.' The liberals: ' Our country's principles state that men and women ought to be treated equally, so therefore men and women are biologically identical and anything that proves otherwise is false'. Like a lot of people said, nature can be both ugly and self serving regardless if our behaviors are 'right' or not. I'll play devil's advocate for a second: racism, it could be argued, could be innate for a purely evolutionary reason as well: our protection and survival - a defense mechanism. Racism is often based on fear: fear of what 'the other' could do to you and the people close to you. If you had no prior knowledge whatsoever of another race existing (maybe you've never been in contact with someone from a certain race ever before and have no prior knowledge of them) and all of a sudden had contact with a bunch of people from this race, it can be argued that it is safer for you to be untrusting of them, to make snap judgements about their behaviours quickly as a group for your own safety because who knows what 'they' could do to you or what their motives are. Better to be 'safe' (even if your judgements later prove to be wrong through extended socialization) then sorry by letting your guard down. And then you can further be socialized two ways: you can then learn by being positively told and by positively interacting with these 'others' that these people should not be marginalized and that you should not be racist towards them. Or it can go the other way: you can be socialized into thinking that these people are, in fact, dangerous people and if you have a negative interaction with one or more of these people, it will 'prove' your idea that these people should be treated badly. One more thing about people's thinking when it comes to racism. Psychologically it is easier for us to think about a group of people as stereotypes and generalizations - we're lazy and can't hold 100 opinions about people all at once so it's easier to group people into one big lump and make generalizations accordingly. Also, once you have an idea in your head about a group of people, the less likely you are to go find information that might prove you wrong (ie: i don't actively seek out and seriously read pro life propaganda because i think its bullshit). And the less likely you are to believe another opinion that differs from yours - you'll just go find 'facts' and other similar thinking people that back you up. Why is that? Because its a really hard blow to our self esteem to find out the things we strongly believe in could be totally wrong. |
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03-02-2008, 11:14 PM | #92 |
Minion of Satan
Location: gasoline alley
Posts: 9,017
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sleeperish posting
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03-02-2008, 11:19 PM | #93 |
Minion of Satan
Location: They don't know who did it, but they're looking for hardened criminals
Posts: 5,938
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i think it's funny that you can hate a douchebag from another country and all of a sudden you're xenophobic. because, really, it's ok to hate douchebags. after all, they're douchebags.
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03-02-2008, 11:24 PM | #94 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: l'isle joyeuse
Posts: 2,656
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so many bad opinions i really just oughta quit even when someone like ali whom i thought was decent goes around justifying this shit in a 'scientific' manner. all she did was intellectualize something i might read on stormfront. whats the point when even white liberals are against you as well
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03-02-2008, 11:28 PM | #95 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: l'isle joyeuse
Posts: 2,656
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no its the way you said it, dumbass. there was a clear hostility in your post and it was clearly directed toward foreigners as you felt the need to mention the fact that they were foreigners. you were implicitly trying to make an association between a personliaty attribute and a group of people. i shouldn't even have to explain this shit but it comes up on this messageboard over and over again.
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03-02-2008, 11:38 PM | #96 | ||
Minion of Satan
Location: bye
Posts: 7,266
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Quote:
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03-02-2008, 11:58 PM | #97 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: l'isle joyeuse
Posts: 2,656
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Yeah, perhaps racism is 'natural' in a way rape is. But regardless your argument goes down the shittier for the fact race is non existent, ergo RACISM is an idea that is created and taught. there's no genetic defense mechanism that makes one identify skin color and respond in chemical fashion. We are the same species, do any other animal species do this within their own?
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03-02-2008, 11:59 PM | #98 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: l'isle joyeuse
Posts: 2,656
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It's embarassing to even post in this thread. It's easy for you and alisonmonster to pontificate when you dont have to be marginalized by this bullshit day in and day out.
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03-03-2008, 12:05 AM | #99 |
Minion of Satan
Location: bye
Posts: 7,266
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I would expand this discussion to ******* all forms of xenophobia. racism is a specific version of the "us vs. t**** attitude. physical appearance is an obvious but especially shallow marker of differentiation.
yes, animals do this all the time, though not by appearance as far as I know. animals live in packs and families. they exclude/kill/compete with all others. |
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03-03-2008, 12:12 AM | #100 |
Banned
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
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Shut the fuck up Mayfuck. Every time you argue in threads like this it's really clear that you're either trolling or you really are a knownothing.
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03-03-2008, 12:21 AM | #101 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: l'isle joyeuse
Posts: 2,656
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when was the last time i even trolled? I didn't make this thread and I didn't even want to post in it. I could not care less what shitbags like you or celluloid love think but when halfway decent people like charmbag or alisonmonster start posting drivel i kinda feel the need to address it.
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03-03-2008, 12:21 AM | #102 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: They don't know who did it, but they're looking for hardened criminals
Posts: 5,938
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Quote:
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03-03-2008, 12:25 AM | #103 | |
Banned
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
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Quote:
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03-03-2008, 12:26 AM | #104 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: bye
Posts: 7,266
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Quote:
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03-03-2008, 12:32 AM | #105 |
Banned
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
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Because he can't respond to them.
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03-03-2008, 12:44 AM | #106 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: l'isle joyeuse
Posts: 2,656
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what legitimate points? that people are predisposed to fear what they don't know? Is that a groundbreaking idea? I'm not even arguing against that and you're not reading anything i'm posting. do you really think there's an evolutionary benefit in fearing people of different colors? that statement would be true if there were legitimate things to fear about people of different skin color (note we are talking skin color, physcial attributes, not cultures and practices which we do have a rational dispostion to question) so how can I argue against something thats falsely framed? and I already told you why racism isn't natural.
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03-03-2008, 12:47 AM | #107 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: l'isle joyeuse
Posts: 2,656
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who is talking about history? not me. i thought that s the conversation you and rockin cherub were having. stop addressing me on this board. we dont even disagree on anything.
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03-03-2008, 01:11 AM | #108 | |
someone more...punk rock?
Location: Ice cream pig out in M1-aud is why i don't play plug in baby the wrong way, like you
Posts: 22,182
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Quote:
look for genetic correlations etc yawn |
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03-03-2008, 01:12 AM | #109 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: l'isle joyeuse
Posts: 2,656
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are you sleepy
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03-03-2008, 01:12 AM | #110 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: bye
Posts: 7,266
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Quote:
if a species is repeatedly doing something it must be because it serves itself in some way, even if it's short-sighted. so because racism has always existed, and continues to exist even within a modern culture where there is virtually nothing to gain from it and a lot to lose, I wouldn't ask if it is innate but rather "why?" |
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03-03-2008, 01:26 AM | #111 |
Banned
Location: somerville, nj
Posts: 23,382
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We talk about rats together
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03-03-2008, 01:27 AM | #112 |
Minion of Satan
Location: creepyu
Posts: 7,211
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i told you guys all he talks about is racsm
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03-03-2008, 01:31 AM | #113 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: gasoline alley
Posts: 9,017
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Quote:
Secondly, because human nature is universal - sometimes shared by everyone, sometimes shared by one sex. Our thoughts, feeling and behaviors are shared, to large existent, by all humans on earth despite our various cultures. Human behavior is a product of both our innate human nature and our environment and i covered both in my last post. I am not talking about brain chemicals or physical biology here in the sense that everything we do is chemicals - not a lot is just chemicals besides our various physical genes such as blood type, genetic disease and blue eyes. Depression is both biological and environmental. And so is the tendencies for people to do horrific things at the expense of others. The argument is anthropological and not simply biological. People are ethnocentric because ethnocentrism - helping ones members at the cost of all others - was adaptive to the ancestral environment. it is evolutionary and biologically rational for people to want their own 'race' to keep going forever genetically and if some people feel another race in infringing on that, they'll do what it takes to prevent it. My argument is that since we are human, after all,and that we can overcome ethnocentrism and make the choice not to be racist. Just like human beings are technically not monogamous but people have made the choice to be so, even if its against human nature ( thats another argument for later). Do animals reject others within their species? i suspect it definitely does.for example the black swans in my hometown don't go anywhere near the white ones and live separately. but its not like i've done research between the two or anything. |
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03-03-2008, 01:47 AM | #114 |
Minion of Satan
Location: gasoline alley
Posts: 9,017
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too bad none of what i say has any value. i'm white and could not possibly attempt to understand anything to do with race. DUH
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03-03-2008, 01:47 AM | #115 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: l'isle joyeuse
Posts: 2,656
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"The argument is anthropological and not simply biological. People are ethnocentric because ethnocentrism - helping ones members at the cost of all others - was adaptive to the ancestral environment. it is evolutionary and biologically rational for people to want their own 'race' to keep going forever genetically and if some people feel another race in infringing on that, they'll do what it takes to prevent it."
There is no evolutionary benefit to this. I don't think you honestly believe this shit and just chalk it up to you conflating tribalism and racism. |
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03-03-2008, 01:48 AM | #116 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: l'isle joyeuse
Posts: 2,656
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03-03-2008, 01:51 AM | #117 |
Minion of Satan
Location: creepyu
Posts: 7,211
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i have to say i agree with what he thinks but it's still boring and i know that every time something comes up that involves competition he thinks about it in terms of race
in a debate about the current presidential race, he will be the first to bring up racial differences for example |
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03-03-2008, 01:51 AM | #118 |
Minion of Satan
Location: creepyu
Posts: 7,211
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it's just like shut the fuck up not everything is about race
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03-03-2008, 01:55 AM | #119 |
Minion of Satan
Location: gasoline alley
Posts: 9,017
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03-03-2008, 02:00 AM | #120 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: l'isle joyeuse
Posts: 2,656
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Yeah your prejudice is coming out a bit. This is good.
The point of that post was that being a caucasian in north america means never having to second guess arguments such as yours. It's not stupid to say that because I've been on the recieving end of such marginalization that I may have added perspective. Just sayin'. |
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