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06-20-2018, 11:32 AM | #1 |
Ownz
Posts: 616
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Did James revive SP because he knew he'd make millions?
I mean, he fucking called Corgan and initiated the whole thing. Jimmy was probably on board, but James is obviously the absolute selling point of this tour.
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06-20-2018, 11:33 AM | #2 |
Ownz
Posts: 616
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Also, he looks apathetic in all interviews so far. Like he knows the other guys know he's in it for the money and just wants 2018 to end so he can get his 3 million or whatever.
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06-20-2018, 12:02 PM | #3 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,235
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They may have been speaking and friendly, and that may well have been initiated by James, but he sure as shit didn't propose the reunion and tour and all that.
Billy proposed it to everyone with the whole HELP IM IN A HOLE routine. James & Jimmy looked at their lovely houses and wine cellars and thought "well it's kinda thanks to Billy that I have this great life" and are now.. paying back billy the 5 pence. You wanna know how I know this? I WAS THERE |
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06-20-2018, 12:03 PM | #4 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,235
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Quote:
If he sticks around he'll probably make fuck all , if he breaks contract he prob has to pay a massive penalty. Not good times for poor old James |
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06-20-2018, 12:04 PM | #5 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: Billy's Buttcrack
Posts: 1,687
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06-20-2018, 12:09 PM | #6 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Travelling between Ukraine and Russia
Posts: 5,305
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D’arcy:
"i'm just giving people the option of the truth, and trying to GET some TRUTH out of James Iha. He burned me VERY badly and i want to know why he did it. But apparently there is just no getting through to him. He KNOWS he betrayed me- - in the worst, ugliest, most inexcusable way that anyone can have their loyalty and friendship betrayed: for MONEY. That's all i can figure it's about since he tossed our friendship out the window and won't say why. When Billy's 'people' LIED about me, and lied about the whole situation, and THEN they called ME a liar ??? (and ONLY because I publically said that I was not going to be on the "Reunion Tour of the Original Band Members") I got a little bit pissed off. Billy knows better. They ALL know better. Billy has said over the years REPEATEDLY AND PUBLICLY that he respects me because I walk my talk and believe me: i do my damndest to do just that. I have a conscience that gives no quarter and is totally and completely unforgiving of me, so if i'm not always doing my absolute best in every facet of my life, i simply can't live w/myself. They all know this about me. They all know that honesty is huge with me, and when James just sat back and went with it? I couldn't believe it. I have been GRIEVING over this for a very long time now. When i say "grieving", i mean i'm currently, actively going through the 7 stages of grief that people go through when someone they Love dies. I thought that James and i would be very close friends till the day one of us died. - for those of you who might not be from a country where English is the 1st language, we have a saying. It's something you say to someone who looks absolutely miserable: "What's the matter? You look like you just lost your best friend." Well, i did. ... at least i thought i did, but i guess he wasn't really my friend at all. i guess that's the whole point. it certainly doesn't make it hurt any less, in fact it hurts a whole lot more now that i feel like i've been a made a fool of as well. … You have to understand that I am a FIERCELY loyal friend, and that I have saved James' ass LITERALLY (Yes; i have literally saved his LIFE time and again when he obliviously walked into the street in front of oncoming traffic REPEATEDLY in countries where people drive on the left side of the road; i have also had to pull him backstage by the scruff of his shirt-neck after he wandered out into the audience of arena floors we were playing because HE THOUGHT THAT HE WAS WALKING ONTO THE STAGE!!!!! AND i've saved his butt financially in every lawsuit between us and Billy that ever was, and believe me-there were more than a few. … If anyone sees James iha and has the opportunity? Slap him good and hard and tell him it's from me." |
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06-20-2018, 12:15 PM | #7 |
Minion of Satan
Posts: 6,014
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Howard Stern interview:
James, it had to be particuly hard for you. Because when the band broke up you were sort of allies. And D’arcy has even said "I don’t even understand how James is back in that band", right? She is critical of you for this decision. Yeah, I mean, I..I wasn’t involved with (giggling) with their conversations. And I just wanted to be like..dealing with my own relationship with Billy. But do you..do you feel hurt, when she criticizes you for going back into the band? Ah..sure! Nah… What you’re gonna do? What you’re gonna do... https://i.imgur.com/1JbbWYB.png |
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06-20-2018, 12:20 PM | #8 |
Minion of Satan
Posts: 6,014
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@Buttcannon
Have you spoken with D'arcy lately? |
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06-20-2018, 12:49 PM | #9 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: I teared Joe Rogan a new one
Posts: 1,427
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I doubt there’s millions. A sideman on a touring gig makes decent money while they’re playing gigs but not that much. The real money is in publishing.....and that’s all Corgan unless they do a co-write that happens to sell..like Taylor Swift numbers.
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06-20-2018, 12:52 PM | #10 |
Ownz
Posts: 616
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Except he's not a sideman lol. He's the reason this shit is even happening. Without Iha it would be SP 2007 pt. 2.
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06-20-2018, 12:53 PM | #11 |
Minion of Satan
Location: up a tree
Posts: 7,510
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reality-
he was most likely making more $$ with a perfect circle at this point. he's ALWAYS, ALWAYS been apathetic in interviews. too much speculation and projection here. it's obnoxious. |
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06-20-2018, 02:03 PM | #12 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,625
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Quote:
I sincerely doubt he was making more money with A Perfect Circle than he would be with Smashing Pumpkins. I'm sure, with both bands, he's paid as a salaried musician, but as others have pointed out, James's presence means a lot more to this iteration of the band as he represents a direct link to the old Smashing Pumpkins, and is really the only difference from the 2015 lineup that toured with Manson. A Perfect Circle, on the other hand, has pretty much been a semi-revolving door of band members since it began. Between his importance to Smashing Pumpkins, and Live Nation throwing tons of money behind a "reunion" tour, he will make more than he would have playing the upcoming tour with A Perfect Circle. Additionally, if Iha is truly in it for money 100% like people say he is, wouldn't he have stayed with A Perfect Circle - who he played with for the last fourteen years - than jump ship to Smashing Pumpkins? I'm sure money remains the motivating factor for James, but he gets other perks as well. He gets to play in the studio, something he was not able to do on the last APC album. Furthermore, as apathetic and "James-ish" as he may seem, I'm sure he enjoys getting to play these songs again in front of fans who have wanted him back since 2007. Bottom line for me, the dude has earned the right to play a cash grab tour. He sat around for the last eighteen years being nothing but kind while Billy Corgan talked shit about James, diminished his contributions, and generally squandered any goodwill the band may have built during its initial run. I'm sure it aggravates him that the tour became more about D'arcy's absence, but if he wants to play with a band he co-founded and earn some money for his family, who the hell cares. His presence has been the one bright spot in this band's dreary year. |
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06-20-2018, 02:11 PM | #13 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: SP, Sao Paulo - Brazil
Posts: 4,846
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Millions? How is he gonna make millions sharing the stage with 4 other people, 2 of them being Billy and Jimmy? Plus, how many concerts they have booked so far? 20? 30?
I'm pretty sure APC would be a way more profitable band than the pumpkins right now. |
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06-20-2018, 02:22 PM | #14 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,270
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06-20-2018, 02:55 PM | #15 | |
Minion of Satan
Posts: 6,014
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Quote:
She hasn't posted anything on AN since: https://i.imgur.com/YUhvsYm.png I wonder if D'arcy has listened to Solara yet and what she thinks about James' comments (Stern interview). P.S.: It would be so awesome if she released some of her own music. |
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06-20-2018, 03:09 PM | #16 |
Braindead
Location: PROWLING THE BADLANDS
Posts: 17,399
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james has to be one of the dullest people to ever become famous
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06-20-2018, 04:04 PM | #17 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: I teared Joe Rogan a new one
Posts: 1,427
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Quote:
Most frontman songwriters have a “keyman clause” in their record contracts, and maintain the legal equivalent of such an arrangement in all band affairs (such as a reunion tour.) A keyman clause renders the frontman as “the actual band” and the other members as hired guns even if the band is still presented as a democratic whole in the public eye. Google it if you’re interested. 99% of bands operate this way. It’s kinda fucked up really.. And we don’t have to speculate about whether Billy runs SP in this manner. He talked about the keyman clause in his 2011 Matt Pinfield interview. |
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06-20-2018, 04:12 PM | #18 | |
Ownz
Posts: 616
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Quote:
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06-20-2018, 04:13 PM | #19 |
Ownz
Posts: 616
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Doesn't matter if he's the keyman, this isn't 1996 and Corgan isn't a superstar. He's only a keyman in his own mind. Bet your ass Live Nation or whomever is arranging would never go for these types of shows were James not involved. It's only a reunion because James decided to partake, remember that.
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06-20-2018, 04:20 PM | #20 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: I teared Joe Rogan a new one
Posts: 1,427
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Quote:
Corgan owns the Pumpkins and they do what he wants on his terms. That renders the other musicians employees of “SP, inc” so to speak. He literally could fire the whole band and hire new people tomorrow if he wanted to. I’m not saying there wouldn’t be backlash and headaches and drama. But it could be done. He’s been doing that every few years actually. |
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06-20-2018, 04:22 PM | #21 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: I teared Joe Rogan a new one
Posts: 1,427
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Quote:
The fact that they are even negotiating cuts of net profits on a tour is proof in itself that the other musicians are essentially sideman. Who do you think controls the negotiation of those cuts? James? lol |
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06-20-2018, 04:26 PM | #22 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: I teared Joe Rogan a new one
Posts: 1,427
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At any rate, to readdress the original point, I don’t think a 25% cut of net touring revenue (however they agree to tally that up) is gonna equate to millions of dollars.
I could be wrong. But I just don’t see it happening. |
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06-20-2018, 04:31 PM | #23 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: I teared Joe Rogan a new one
Posts: 1,427
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Also I apologize for being a little snappy. Nothing personal I just get that way on message boards. I respect where you’re coming from.
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06-20-2018, 04:32 PM | #24 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: I teared Joe Rogan a new one
Posts: 1,427
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06-20-2018, 04:44 PM | #25 | |
Oblivious Virgin
Posts: 34
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Quote:
Billy, James, Jimmy, and Jeff (to a much lesser extent, as he has much less pull in a reunion) probably get splits after expenses, you are right about that. And for a big tour, that would be more lucrative than simply touring wages from APC. |
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06-20-2018, 04:46 PM | #26 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,625
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johncg seems to understand how these type of "mega-bands" work. Even if Billy, James and Jimmy split their part of the proceeds equally, which I sincerely doubt, Billy still runs the show. As the key member, he has final say in obligating the band, what to release under the band name, and approval over major artistic decisions outside the music (promotional images, artwork, etc.).
Just as an example, if Jimmy/James had some major issue with playing a certain festival or appearing on a certain show, Billy could unilaterally still obligate "Smashing Pumpkins" to play that show. Of course, Jimmy and James could say "fuck it" and bolt, but they would have no bearing on making the final decision. D'arcy, James, and Jimmy could have all voiced their disapproval of Billy continuing on with the name Smashing Pumpkins (I don't think any of them actually did so publicly), but they could not prevent Billy from doing so. It all has to do with looking at a band as a legal entity rather than an organic one (they way we like to think of them in the abstract). Bands who are considered "key members" are partners in the business that is the band, and have all the rights that confers. That being said, even though Billy remains the "key member," I know the full band does get some say on certain issues per their contract. He mentioned (possibly in that Pinfield interview, but definitely some interview around that time) that the "original 4" still have to sign off on any reissues. Of course, they would have no motivation to block those as it would just be money in their pockets. Who gets considered a "key member"/partner varies from band to band, but as johncg said, it will almost never be every member of the band (I cannot think of any band that does this). Some bands, like Smashing Pumpkins, have all the power in one member (I believe Bon Jovi is another famous band with one decision-maker). For other bands, it will be founding members or members who most actively contribute to songwriting (for instance Mick Jagger and Keith Richards in The Rolling Stones or James Hetfield and Lars Ulrich in Metallica). Last edited by themadcaplaughs : 06-20-2018 at 04:54 PM. |
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06-20-2018, 04:49 PM | #27 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,625
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Quote:
For A Perfect Circle, I would agree Billy Howerdel and Maynard are probably the only full-time members of the band. I believe Josh Freese was as well, he was technically in the band before Maynard, but he quit some time ago. |
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06-20-2018, 05:01 PM | #28 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: I teared Joe Rogan a new one
Posts: 1,427
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Quote:
Even if most of us know he’s an asshole, he still has tremendously more fame and notoriety and can instantly ruin the other band members’ reputations in ways that will make their lives much harder for years to come just by talking to a media outlet (and I guarantee all the current members have signed away their ability to talk about the band outside of Billy’s direction) or some industry insiders. His past behavior (see Devi Ever) shows us that he not afraid to wield this power with an iron first. He literally could drum up a totally fabricated lawsuit (like, say, sexual harassment against Jimmy) and have Jimmy at his mercy because he wouldn’t be able to pay as much to defend himself and Billy could spend to prosecute him. So when you add in those factors...even IF Billy entered into a contractual agreement for this tour that elevates the other members to equal legal status with respect to “SP inc,” he still has enormous leverage over them, and they are all still his bitches to the extent that he chooses to crack the whip. And if there’s anything Billy is known for, it’s cracking that fucking whip. |
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06-20-2018, 05:01 PM | #29 | |
Oblivious Virgin
Posts: 34
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It's all speculation though, he definitely seemed more of a hired gun in the Zeitgeist days. |
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06-20-2018, 05:36 PM | #30 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: SP, Sao Paulo - Brazil
Posts: 4,846
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Quote:
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