Netphoria Message Board


Go Back   Netphoria Message Board > Archives > Music Board Archive
Register Netphoria's Amazon.com Link Members List Mark Forums Read

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-28-2015, 08:13 PM   #1
fuzzyroes
Banned
 
Posts: 21,169
Default Why can't good songwriters continue to write good songs through their 40's and on?

It seems like once every good songwriter reaches about their mid 40's and on that they simply can't write a good song anymore. The examples are seemingly endless and it's a true rarity to find an odd exception to this rule.

So what is the deal? Do these guys get old and just stop caring about music? All of the older people I know in my life still love music so that can't be it. Is it just that these guys get pushed too hard and they burn out?

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Old 10-28-2015, 08:34 PM   #2
slunken
Virgo
 
slunken's Avatar
 
Posts: 42,781
Default

you're talking about singer/songwriters and not songwriters.

time to start checking those song credits.

 
slunken is offline
Old 10-28-2015, 08:52 PM   #3
myosis
Minion of Satan
 
myosis's Avatar
 
Location: the institute
Posts: 6,421
Default

there is sometimes a comeback of talent at 60 years of age

 
myosis is offline
Old 10-28-2015, 08:54 PM   #4
fuzzyroes
Banned
 
Posts: 21,169
Default

Touche, yes, singer songwriters. I suppose theres a bunch of old ass guys writing hits for pop artists and shit

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Old 10-28-2015, 08:56 PM   #5
The Omega Concern
Banned
 
Location: stay, far, away
Posts: 8,986
Default

Robert Plant has never really lost it.

 
The Omega Concern is offline
Old 10-28-2015, 09:20 PM   #6
Elphenor
Braindead
 
Elphenor's Avatar
 
Location: TX
Posts: 16,289
Default

Great thread, Fuzzyroes. My answer is going to have to be The Smashing Pumpkins

 
Elphenor is offline
Old 10-28-2015, 09:22 PM   #7
slunken
Virgo
 
slunken's Avatar
 
Posts: 42,781
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Omega Concern View Post
Robert Plant has never really lost it.
lmao

 
slunken is offline
Old 10-28-2015, 11:17 PM   #8
noyen
Immortal
 
noyen's Avatar
 
Posts: 26,795
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzyroes View Post
It seems like once every good songwriter reaches about their mid 40's and on that they simply can't write a good song anymore. The examples are seemingly endless and it's a true rarity to find an odd exception to this rule.

So what is the deal? Do these guys get old and just stop caring about music? All of the older people I know in my life still love music so that can't be it. Is it just that these guys get pushed too hard and they burn out?
who the fuck are you talking about? mike ness? please start seemingly endless list.

 
noyen is offline
Old 10-28-2015, 11:21 PM   #9
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
Default

Neil Young is the obvious exception that comes to mind. he puts out bad stuff as well, but every few albums he still manages to hit it out of the park

 
redbreegull is offline
Old 10-28-2015, 11:41 PM   #10
Trotskilicious
Banned
 
Trotskilicious's Avatar
 
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slunken View Post
you're talking about singer/songwriters and not songwriters.
it's a dumb statement either way

 
Trotskilicious is offline
Old 10-28-2015, 11:42 PM   #11
Trotskilicious
Banned
 
Trotskilicious's Avatar
 
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
Default

iirc leonard cohen was in his late fifties when i'm your man came out and early sixties when the future came out

 
Trotskilicious is offline
Old 10-28-2015, 11:43 PM   #12
Trotskilicious
Banned
 
Trotskilicious's Avatar
 
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by noyen View Post
who the fuck are you talking about? mike ness? please start seemingly endless list.
it's just dumb trolling

 
Trotskilicious is offline
Old 10-28-2015, 11:51 PM   #13
Sonic Johnny
Through Silver In Buds
 
Sonic Johnny's Avatar
 
Location: Centralia
Posts: 16,502
Default

He's talking about Rivers Cuomo

 
Sonic Johnny is offline
Old 10-28-2015, 11:58 PM   #14
Trotskilicious
Banned
 
Trotskilicious's Avatar
 
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
Default

michael gira

but fuzzy is scared of swans

 
Trotskilicious is offline
Old 10-28-2015, 11:58 PM   #15
Trotskilicious
Banned
 
Trotskilicious's Avatar
 
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
Default

tom waits

 
Trotskilicious is offline
Old 10-28-2015, 11:58 PM   #16
Trotskilicious
Banned
 
Trotskilicious's Avatar
 
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
Default

I can't think of any gen xers yet tho

 
Trotskilicious is offline
Old 10-29-2015, 12:01 AM   #17
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
I can't think of any gen xers yet tho
I think these guys all did just burn out. Thom Yorke? Mark Kozelek? Both released stuff that was really good in the 2000s, but not so much in the past five years I guess

 
redbreegull is offline
Old 10-29-2015, 12:13 AM   #18
Trotskilicious
Banned
 
Trotskilicious's Avatar
 
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
Default

oh jesus are they 40

 
Trotskilicious is offline
Old 10-29-2015, 12:15 AM   #19
Trotskilicious
Banned
 
Trotskilicious's Avatar
 
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
Default

other than swans which isn't really relevant to this discussion because that's mostly about sound and not lyrics, i can't really think of anyone old making anything good after like idk 2000 or something

but i don't care about old people because punk rock forever

 
Trotskilicious is offline
Old 10-29-2015, 12:34 AM   #20
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
oh jesus are they 40
both closer to 50 I think.

one of the few astute things b0lly ever said was pointing out (in the 90s) that rock is really a young man's game, and older people for whatever reason are bad at making rock music generally. Singer songwriters, I can think of a fair number who put out good stuff later in their careers. Blues guys don't even get warmed up until they get old according to several iconic bluesmen.

 
redbreegull is offline
Old 10-29-2015, 12:34 AM   #21
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
Default

well one, I'm thinking of something Buddy Guy said

 
redbreegull is offline
Old 10-29-2015, 12:53 AM   #22
pavementtune
**************
 
pavementtune's Avatar
 
Location: I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
Posts: 8,661
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
I think these guys all did just burn out. Thom Yorke? Mark Kozelek? Both released stuff that was really good in the 2000s, but not so much in the past five years I guess
Kozelek released Benji last year - which I'd argue is one of the best albums he ever did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzyroes View Post
It seems like once every good songwriter reaches about their mid 40's and on that they simply can't write a good song anymore. The examples are seemingly endless and it's a true rarity to find an odd exception to this rule.

So what is the deal? Do these guys get old and just stop caring about music? All of the older people I know in my life still love music so that can't be it. Is it just that these guys get pushed too hard and they burn out?
it's not a true rarity, no.
the past few years had these albums - so you can't even argue only the prime examples like Leonard Cohen, Neil Young or Bob Dylan "made one good album back then when they got old."

Let England Shake - PJ Harvey age 42
Vulnicura - Björk age 49
50 Words for Snow - Kate Bush age 53
Push the Sky Away - Nick Cave age 56
Bad As me - Tom Waits age 61

Last edited by pavementtune : 10-29-2015 at 01:11 AM.

 
pavementtune is offline
Old 10-29-2015, 12:59 AM   #23
vixnix
Socialphobic
 
vixnix's Avatar
 
Location: we are champions, bathed in the heat of a thousand flame wars in the grim future of the internet there is only netphoria
Posts: 12,467
Default

there might be some correlation with singer songwriters coming from uncomfortable backgrounds, getting rich and comfortable, and numbing their still present feelings with endless therapy, consumerism, short lived relationships...and have an audience willing to listen to whatever drivel they produce, so stop really pulling out all the stops to get an audience

maybe that's just crogan

 
vixnix is offline
Old 10-29-2015, 01:07 AM   #24
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pavementtune View Post
Kozelek released Benji last year - which I'd argue is one of the best albums he ever did.
it took me a LONG time to come around to Benji. I think I posted over and over about wanting so bad to get it but I just couldn't. I can't reconcile it at all with his pre-2010 material, but it is quite good. one day I was on a bus when I was traveling with my friend in asia and I just had a moment where Carissa came on and I really listened to the lyrics staring out the window and I started crying because it's so real. I'm not sure how to explain it.

but overall I think his songwriting took a dip after Admiral Fell Promises. I will say though that I think he could still put out shit that sounds like earlier SKM and it would be just as good, but he is bored and for himself needs to keep doing something different, and I respect that. I don't respect him getting all crazy and having public spats with people in recent years, or calling that journalist a bitch on stage and asking why she wants to fuck him so bad or whatever. Admittedly, she did harass him and his friends on their home phones and then after the incident she profited off it by writing an article for the Atlantic about what a misogynistic awful pig he is... but yeah, it's still not cool Mark.

 
redbreegull is offline
Old 10-29-2015, 01:16 AM   #25
The exploding boy
Minion of Satan
 
The exploding boy's Avatar
 
Location: "I'm a quivering collection of the worst and least helpful emotions: fear, anxiety, terror, paranoia, indigestion, dishpan hands..."
Posts: 7,765
Red face

It is often true though....i guess it depends what kind of music. But say...when your success was based on teenage angst for example, that fuel doesn't last. You have to find a different fuel. Once you're rich and successful, it gets harder i'm sure. Just the will to prove yourself when you're young for one, that's a powerful creative force and once you've proved yourself....

Musically i just think you're bound to run out of creativity, going around in circles, doing the same stuff you did except not as good, but as a parody of yourself. There's artists who try to get out of their comfort zone and try new stuff and these artists often manage to thrive, those that don't like i said just become a bad copy of their younger selves.

 
The exploding boy is offline
Old 10-29-2015, 01:19 AM   #26
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
Default

yep. I'm not really familiar enough with other mediums of art I guess to say for sure, but it seems that musical artists suffer this decline way worse than people who write books or make films or whatever

 
redbreegull is offline
Old 10-29-2015, 01:21 AM   #27
pavementtune
**************
 
pavementtune's Avatar
 
Location: I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
Posts: 8,661
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
one day I was on a bus when I was traveling with my friend in asia and I just had a moment where Carissa came on and I really listened to the lyrics staring out the window and I started crying because it's so real. I'm not sure how to explain it.
I can't explain it either but I had something similar - replace bus with train and Asia with Euro - while listening to Jim Wise.

 
pavementtune is offline
Old 10-29-2015, 02:00 AM   #28
dreams of glass
Apocalyptic Poster
 
dreams of glass's Avatar
 
Location: The Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,226
Default

What about the The Grateful Dead, maan

 
dreams of glass is offline
Old 10-29-2015, 02:05 AM   #29
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
Default

holy shit tom waits is only 61 I thought he was 161

 
redbreegull is offline
Old 10-29-2015, 02:19 AM   #30
pavementtune
**************
 
pavementtune's Avatar
 
Location: I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
Posts: 8,661
Default

he is, he was around 61 when he did the Bad As Me album (which is good in my book.)

 
pavementtune is offline
 


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is On
Google


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:53 AM.




Smashing Pumpkins, Alternative Music
& General Discussion Message Board and Forums
www.netphoria.org - Copyright © 1998-2022