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04-20-2016, 10:51 AM | #1 |
Minion of Satan
Location: An oasis of horror in a desert of boredom
Posts: 7,742
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Your approach to lyrics
Musicians of netphoria, please share your approach to lyrics. Do you tell stories? If so are they about you? Or do you go impressionistic? If so, are you aiming for a specific meaning? If so how buried are your meanings? Or do you just string together interesting phrases/images and call it a day?
This has always been the hardest part of songwriting for me. I oscillate hard between overly personal/confessional and impossibly obtuse/impressionistic. With the former I'm afraid I'll alienate anyone who hasn't shared my experiences/emotions. With the latter I'm worried the listener won't be engaged or interested in unravelling any meaning. |
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04-20-2016, 07:56 PM | #2 |
Braindead
Location: PROWLING THE BADLANDS
Posts: 17,399
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great thread
a few general unwritten rules (and by that, i mean that i only now fully acknowledge that i enforce them every time i write) that i have are: * they must read as well as a poem, and make sense to me on their own, and not look like lame song lyrics. which doesn't necessarily make sense as a writing rule, because there are plenty of song lyrics that don't necessarily read that great without music, but work perfectly with it. * i noticed that i have a tendency to use too many I's in my lyrics. it made me very self conscious about being too self absorbed, so i'm trying to minimize that now and speak in more interesting, and perhaps relateable, terms. not that i'm trying to reach a bigger audience or anything like that, it just makes more sense to me i guess. * sometimes i'll make attempts at stream-of-consciousness stuff and abstract lyrics. usually, as i said, everything has to make perfect sense to me, so sometimes i enjoy just jotting down whatever it is that comes to me at the moment and not thinking too much about it. unfortunately, 9 times out of 10 i'll think it's total bullshit and neglect it. besides, it's too quick. i'm used to agonizing over songs for days and days and weeks on end, and when a song comes too quickly it makes me feel like it doesn't even count as a song. although to an outside observer both songs will have more or less equal merit. i have no idea what the fuck i'm even talking about here. my post will probably contribute nothing to no one. sorry for your time. |
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04-20-2016, 07:59 PM | #3 |
Braindead
Location: PROWLING THE BADLANDS
Posts: 17,399
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actually as a listener i'm often quite fond of very self absorbed lyrics that simply boldly reflect the inner world of the writer.
father john misty (thanks rbg) is a good example of a lyricist i've come to know recently that simply speaks about his life and emotional perceptions in his songs, and i find that engrossing and artful. but i don't really allow myself to do that in my own songs. eh |
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04-20-2016, 08:01 PM | #4 |
Braindead
Location: PROWLING THE BADLANDS
Posts: 17,399
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here is one of my 'abstract' songs that i wrote like two days ago. i still don't know if it's worth anything but this seems like a good place to post them:
the thread so tightly strung many times wound a stain inside the lung heavy gauge bound a lonely hound desperate and so proud late to the party a stranger in the crowd. the den is filled with fallout from the last brawl give me something solid to punch through the god damned wall where are you all? the forest echoes traffic give me something solid to grind into the wall you know, it's all so tragic the way the world revolves coming off the hinges a senseless shopping mall. fortress bound so desperate to be found late to the party a stranger in the crowd. |
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04-20-2016, 08:39 PM | #5 |
Minion of Satan
Posts: 6,781
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Generally speaking, I seek to describe my experiences as directly as possible and without embellishment. It's upsetting to the genuine among us when others in the game will spit about the corners they never stood on and triggers they never pulled.
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04-20-2016, 08:47 PM | #6 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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if i wanted to hear some god damned guy tell me a story i would read a book
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04-20-2016, 08:50 PM | #7 |
Braindead
Location: TX
Posts: 16,289
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I actually get some recording of the music down first then listen to it on repeat until I start to piece together the lyrics and melody
Usually I already have a title and an idea of what I want to say in the particular song it's just a matter of working out how exactly to say it I go back and forth between wanting to write very direct to the point of being humorous lyrics like say Jonathan Richman or really obtuse type lyrics like Stephen Malkmus |
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04-20-2016, 08:55 PM | #8 |
Braindead
Location: PROWLING THE BADLANDS
Posts: 17,399
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post some stuff guys
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04-20-2016, 09:12 PM | #9 |
Minion of Satan
Location: An oasis of horror in a desert of boredom
Posts: 7,742
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I know what you mean teh B, about using a lot of first person. There's an inner critic that scoffs, "this isn't generous. This isn't for the listener, this is for you, and it's not even that interesting." But there are songwriters that I love that do it. The Mountain Goats man springs to mind. I wonder what it would be like to write a whole album like that, just say fuck it.
Part of the hesitation is when your friends/fam are like your only audience, e.g., writing about the 5 years I spent trying to recreate, with my own body through crossdressing, a true lover I alienated and hurt thru alcoholic craziness, would be cathartic for me and could possibly approach art if done well. But what's the point if I can't play it for anyone without making them feel exceedingly uncomfortable btw those lyrics are pretty bitchin, I really like the forest echoing traffic, I've also been obsessed with traffic as an image/theme |
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04-20-2016, 09:21 PM | #10 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: An oasis of horror in a desert of boredom
Posts: 7,742
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Quote:
Recently I've been doing stuff that's more chord based and wide open melody-wise, so there's room to really "say something." It's amazing how having more freedom to write the lyrics can make it harder to start/finish. I'll write entire lyrics for these type songs, decide I don't believe them anymore, and completely scrap them |
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04-20-2016, 09:26 PM | #11 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: An oasis of horror in a desert of boredom
Posts: 7,742
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Quote:
Apart from rap music, I can't stand songwriting that tells a very specific story or sports some cute turn-of-phrase to drive home some universal, folksy "point" I like when it's show more than tell, when the lyrics help the music do what (I think) music does best: express emotions that words can't adequately describe |
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04-20-2016, 09:49 PM | #12 |
Braindead
Location: PROWLING THE BADLANDS
Posts: 17,399
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i just find it excruciating to find something that i really feel is worth saying and conveying.
once you have that inner spark that wants to come out, everything becomes so much easier and it's just a matter of refining it. there's a thousand ways to say anything if you know exactly where it is you want to go, and the melody\music comes much easier that way too. many times i'm not quite sure what it is i'm trying to express, though, so it's just fumbling in the dark and it's much harder to get a good song out of that. some people just have a way with words, and i'm not one of them, save for occasional glimpses of inspiration - but when it comes, it's so easy and fun to just watch everything fall into place. |
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04-20-2016, 09:58 PM | #13 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: An oasis of horror in a desert of boredom
Posts: 7,742
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Quote:
I feel this so hard. When I abandon lyrics it's because I've decided one of two things (1) I don't know what they say or (2) I don't believe anymore what they say Once I decided that good lyrics must "say true things in new ways." But maybe this is holding us back from writing more songs. I'm curious: do you usually find yourself with a lot of wordless riffs, chords, melodies? Or do you have more words waiting for music to fit them to? One of my primary frustrations now = about three years of music with no good words to put to it. The more music I write the more stressed out I get: oh no! Now I'll have to think of something to say! |
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04-20-2016, 10:35 PM | #14 |
full of longing
Posts: 11,505
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lyrics: i decided they were not for me
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04-20-2016, 10:58 PM | #15 |
BOTTLEG ILLEGAL
Location: I'm faced with so many changes that I just might change my face
Posts: 32,800
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I haven't written in a while, but I'm a self-confession-universal-confession kind of person. I hope to reach themes within myself that are acutely personal and yet relateable at the same time. I may not known your pain and you may not know mine, but we both know pain. You know?
Sometimes I get super personal though, like this song I wrote after whatever happened to me, happened to me. I was still mostly in denial but I knew it was fucked up. I mean this song is all of two chords but I think that's part of what makes it good, somehow. Plus I hadn't played guitar in like 4 years and had just gotten equipment so it was a good place to start again. What have I become, my precious one? You made me hate my life, You made me hate my love. And I don't even care to change the way I feel. You don't even know me, You only love yourself. I changed the day I met you, and you don't even know. I am what you made me, Is this what you want? And when will it end, when is enough, enough? Will you ever shut off? When will it stop? I have heard a thousand lies And seen a thousand ways To break a person down. I wish I didn't know you I didn't need you But I'll learn to live without Life must be hard without someone to put down Do you ever wonder where you'd be now If there was no one to blame, If you could be a normal, selfish human being I have heard a thousand lies And seen a thousand ways To break a person down. I wish I didn't know you I didn't need you But I'll learn to live without |
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04-21-2016, 12:25 AM | #16 |
Braindead
Location: PROWLING THE BADLANDS
Posts: 17,399
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04-21-2016, 01:09 AM | #17 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,848
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Every time I try to write lyrics, they are so cringey that reading them literally hurts and I have to throw it away. I can't just throw them away, I have to actually crumple them up and tear them up to ensure that some dumpster diver scavenging for a meal will never stumble across them and laugh at me.
When I try to write music first, my lyrics just end up being nonsense rhyming words that fit in the meter. Like, the kind of thing you'd pluck from a rhyming dictionary. "Something something eye something something butterfly something something sky" etc. When I write lyrics first, I can't fit them into anything, but it's rare I even get that far, since they suck. I think one of the reasons I don't improve on anything is that I can't accept that anything one does, one will suck at first. It's just a necessary part of development. But I see my shitty work, and it just deters me from trying further, so I never improve. |
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04-21-2016, 02:06 AM | #18 |
Banned
Location: stay, far, away
Posts: 8,986
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I'm theme oriented at times. I wanted to write a song about a guy going through a black hole. It wrote itself but what was interesting was this natural metaphor to reincarnation.
Bunch of friends of mine were into betting and playing cards and such. So I wrote a song around that idea called Lady Luck and it follows a pattern I developed where a direct 1st verse of the theme really sets up a more provocative 2nd verse that plays off the theme. oh, and sometimes lyrics come down real cheesy. I'll change em to sound less lame on paper, but that usually screws up the song, so, I'll just accept what came down originally and deal. Lady Luck is a perfect example of starting out silly and somewhat soft followed by a 2nd verse sledgehammer that flips the script a bit. Big Gulpin 7-11 away looked at my cards and saw they were straight rolled the dice twice for my own life snake eyed twitch done caught my surprise Playing queen of hearts was never too smart looking for love and a fresh new start choosing lotto numbers on a twisted fate Hoping Lady Luck would save our lives Cause you know that you are never too far from your own slave And I swear that I will capture my soul on a bonded wave *all that to really set up the next four lines* The Emerald Tablet is for the Divine Secrets revealed to those in line Somewhat had to say you must carry a cross For Jesus Christ had his own Judas Tiara had to say I was wasting my way Sending my love to the end of time Won't she be coming to trump my flush? At least then I'd know, I would feel her touch Cause she was, oh so right flicking my soul like a candlelight where are you lovely light For I'm right here, fighting the good fight |
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04-21-2016, 02:15 AM | #19 | |
Banned
Location: stay, far, away
Posts: 8,986
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Quote:
That's a habit you may want to break. When lyrics and/or songs come down whole, run with it. |
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04-21-2016, 02:22 AM | #20 | |
Banned
Location: stay, far, away
Posts: 8,986
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Quote:
I like the idea of a stranger in the crowd and I really like this passage here. Good stuff. |
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04-21-2016, 07:35 AM | #21 |
Braindead
Location: TX
Posts: 16,289
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I like how everyone on this board even the conspiracy nut is a tender hearted singer/song writer in their off time
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04-21-2016, 11:59 AM | #22 |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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04-21-2016, 01:04 PM | #23 |
Minion of Satan
Location: An oasis of horror in a desert of boredom
Posts: 7,742
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I like how we're describing the words and music as "coming down" to you from elsewhere. It really feels like that sometimes doesn't it? It's kinda like ghost adventures, sometimes. The song, before it's written, is flitting about insubstantial round the room. You start with the EMF meters and ask some basic questions while running EVP recorders cause you don't want to scare it away. If it responds, you get more serious, bust out the proton packs and wrangle that phantom until it's safely transferred to the ghost containment chamber back at your NYC firehouse
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04-21-2016, 04:21 PM | #24 |
Banned
Location: stay, far, away
Posts: 8,986
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04-21-2016, 04:28 PM | #25 |
Banned
Location: stay, far, away
Posts: 8,986
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In honor of Prince, its good to look at how he shaped meaning. We don't think in words, we visualize images and use words to best describe the scene we see in our minds eye. You can come up with a single image and never be short of words to describe its meaning:
I guess I should of known/by the way she parked her car/ sideways/ that it wouldn't last... boom. That's all you need sometimes. If the conclusion of this story is already known to the writer the lyrics will write itself. |
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04-21-2016, 05:48 PM | #26 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
Posts: 37,215
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we don't think in words?
bitch u be trippin |
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04-21-2016, 05:49 PM | #27 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
Posts: 37,215
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we are shackled by our words, we are IN BONDAGE to language, fool
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04-21-2016, 09:34 PM | #28 |
BOTTLEG ILLEGAL
Location: I'm faced with so many changes that I just might change my face
Posts: 32,800
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yeah but w/o language our evolution would have been stunted. we need language for cooperation, but funny enough not for war
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04-21-2016, 09:43 PM | #29 |
Braindead
Location: PROWLING THE BADLANDS
Posts: 17,399
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i think that makes me want to go write a song.
i'll call it: "w/o language our evolution would have been stunted. we need language for cooperation, but funny enough not for war" |
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04-21-2016, 09:45 PM | #30 | |
Braindead
Location: PROWLING THE BADLANDS
Posts: 17,399
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Quote:
i need to remind myself of that more often. when you just let it be what it wants to be, it'll always be better than forcing it |
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