The Smashing Pumpkins (Demos & Recording Sessions - Anal Questions)

[chsllama]

Ok guys, here's my post of questoins and stuff for various TSP demos. I guess the main goal of all of this is three fold:
1) To someone how allow more complete HUB-like info.txt files to circulate rather than vague tracklistings.
2) To inform myself for my own personal knowledge and burnt CD organization
3) In a vain effotr to encourage the inclusions of scans to SPFC and to ******* linking from recordings like the Daughter flexi-disc to the studio sessions and demo tapes from which they were spawned.

Right now my main questions are;
-Who are the people involved here? What are their profiles in the TSP timeline? Are they managers? Sound engineers? Have they worked with other bands?
-Are there scans of these items? Who's got em... I guess i'd one day like something similar to the digital nirvana discog's chart of who owns the official love buzz 7"

With that stuff being stated here are the things I'm wondering about, please post your own questions or answers or scans. And whenever possible, sources for info.

Thanks a mill,
Thomas A. Jackson

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A: Nothing Ever Changes Demo Tape:
http://www.spfc.org/band/studio.html?session_id=1
http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/d...?discog_id=137

QUESTIONS:
A1) When did the name for Heart of (Heart and Cross) get changed to Holiday. At whose discretion?
A2) From where does this 'Heart and Cross' two songs or one, debate stem (ANS: SPRS)?
A2a) Does the debate stem from listening to the audio?
A2b) Does the debate stem from talking to the band or those in recording sessions, or the tracklists on the j card?
A3) What is the exact order of tracks on the tape? SPFC and SP-RS 3.2 Disagree
A4) Where the the SP-RS 3.2 get it's 'It suits me well' info for 'The Vigil'?
A4a) Where the both names originate from, the band members or information on the tape?
A4b) When was a final decision made as to what to call the song? Was it on the tape label, made by the fans' best guess, or expressed by Billy?
A5) Has there ever been an appearance on eBay or in the trading network of the original 60 minute long NEC?(60min?)
A6) Where did we get information that there are other art mockups of the demo tape than the stigmatic nun?

B: The Smashing Pumpkins Demo Tape:
http://www.spfc.org/band/studio.html?session_id=3
http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/d...ml?discog_id=1
http://www.spfc.org/band/studio.html?session_id=4

QUESTIONS:
B1) Who is Quentin Sanbria?
B1a) Who is Paul Chabala?
B3) Is the Previeu share the TSP demo tape?
B3a) If so where did the name originate for Previeu?
B3b) Who was responsible?
B3c) Was any EQ'ing or NR'ing done?
B4) Where did the She (live) come from? 10-05-88?

C: Moon Demo Tape
http://www.spfc.org/band/studio.html?session_id=5
http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/d...ml?discog_id=2

QUESTIONS:
C1) What scans do we have for the Jcard & tape?

D: Gish Basement Tape
http://www.spfc.org/band/studio.html?session_id=5

D1) Do we have a scan of the Gish Basement Tape?
D2) Do we have a tracklisting of the Gish Basement Tape?
D3) Citations?

E: Eye Demo Tape
http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/d...?discog_id=126

E1) Do we have a scan of the Eye Demo Tape?
E2) What recording sessions src'd the Eye Demo Tape?

F: Reel Time Studios (RTS)
http://www.spfc.org/band/studio.html?session_id=5
http://www.spfc.org/band/studio.html?session_id=6

F1) Do we have a scan of the Reel Time Studios Session Tapes?
F2) Who originally put together the Tree?

G: Ignoffo Tape
I have a SHN'd recording of the following songs:
1) Time Has Come Today
2) Jennifer Ever (Acoustic)
3) Nothing & Everything

They were distributed with the RTS Tree and I have been told are from an Ignoffo Tape and from the NSPAA.

G1) Which Ignoffo recording session are these tracks src'd from?
G2) Do we have a scan of this Ignoffo tape?

H: Misc Stuff

Tape Scans
-Do we have scans of the Ignoffo Tapes from which the Gish Basement Demo was src'd? Moon Demo? TSP Demo? LiD?

Recordings
-Where is the recording of this readily available, preferrably in SHN?
http://www.spfc.org/band/studio.html?session_id=2

[Jesse Miller]

Fuck that.

[Jesse Miller]

Just kidding; check your PM...

heh heh

you said "anal".

[Pmack]

Are you ready?

A: Nothing Ever Changes Demo Tape:
A1) When did the name for Heart of (Heart and Cross) get changed to Holiday. At whose discretion?

It was at my discretion. I got NEC from Ron Roesing in early 2000. He sent me a CD of it and hand-wrote the tracklist. He noted it as 4 tracks:
1 - The Vigil (it suits me well)
2 - Nothing & Everything (Breathe)
3 - Heart
4 - Cross

He got the names of 1 and 2 from phone conversations between us. He used to tell me about songs they did, but he never remembered the names. He would always remember a few lines of the lyrics. I recognized The Vigil from the Avalon show, and he knew that Breathe later became a Pumpkins song, he just didn't know the name. When I got the CD later, I was able to ID Heart as Holiday.

I do not know where Ron got his titles. There is a tape that Billy made for a friend in 1986-87 that has the title "The Vigil" clearly written in Billy's handwriting, not once but twice. I have never seen or heard anything outside of Ron's recollection that indicates the song was ever called "It Suits Me Well". On the other hand, "Breathe" as a title has been documented in one other instance (the LiD sublission tape.)

A2) From where does this 'Heart and Cross' two songs or one, debate stem (ANS: SPRS)?
A2a) Does the debate stem from listening to the audio?
A2b) Does the debate stem from talking to the band or those in recording sessions, or the tracklists on the j card?

Bob English first gave either Dave Mead or Shawn Turner the tracklist back in 1998. The tracklist was obtained over the phone, so their was always uncertainty as to whether Bob said "Heart" and "Cross" or "Heart and Cross". I asked Ron if he remembered if it was one song or two. He first told me it was one, but later when he wrote the tracklist he indicated they were two different tracks.

A3) What is the exact order of tracks on the tape? SPFC and SP-RS 3.2 Disagree
A4) Where the the SP-RS 3.2 get it's 'It suits me well' info for 'The Vigil'?
A4a) Where the both names originate from, the band members or information on the tape?
A4b) When was a final decision made as to what to call the song? Was it on the tape label, made by the fans' best guess, or expressed by Billy?

Answered above.

A5) Has there ever been an appearance on eBay or in the trading network of the original 60 minute long NEC?(60min?)

No. The only information known about it is what Billy told me in March 2000, that it was about 60m, it was his first attempt at an album, and it was a mix of music and bad spoken word poetry.

A6) Where did we get information that there are other art mockups of the demo tape than the stigmatic nun?

There was a guy who used to be Bob English's roommate who had a website with scans of some of the mock-ups.

B: The Smashing Pumpkins Demo Tape:
B1) Who is Quentin Sanbria?

I have my suspicions that this is an alias, but for who, I still don't know.

B1a) Who is Paul Chabala?
Former member of the early 80s Chicago punk band Silver Abuse. Schwa Productions was his umbrella; he also released a Silver Abuse 7" on a label with that name. [Cool trivia: another member of the band Silver Abuse was Santiago Durango, later of Naked Raygun and Big Black.]

B3) Is the Previeu share the TSP demo tape?

Yes, along with the Moon tape, minus the spoke word.

B3a) If so where did the name originate for Previeu?

Simon Coyle.

B3b) Who was responsible?

The 1997 version of 1337.

B3c) Was any EQ'ing or NR'ing done?

I don't know the answer to this.

B4) Where did the She (live) come from? 10-05-88?

No one (in the community) knows the answer to this. It is not 10.05.88.

C: Moon Demo Tape
C1) What scans do we have for the Jcard & tape?

Many. I've personally got scans of 4 different copies I've owned.

D: Gish Basement Tape
D1) Do we have a scan of the Gish Basement Tape?
D2) Do we have a tracklisting of the Gish Basement Tape?
D3) Citations?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=20827

The name "Gish Basement Tape" comes from the fact that as far back as 1989 Billy was circulating a tape he called "Gish". This tape was recorded at Mark Ignoffo's Reel Time Studios, which was, coincidentally enough, located in his basement.

E: Eye Demo Tape
E1) Do we have a scan of the Eye Demo Tape?
E2) What recording sessions src'd the Eye Demo Tape?

The goddamned Eye tape does not exist. I have been telling people this for six years, but for some reason, despite the overwhelming lack of scans, copies (actual or duplicated), documentation, or even a tracklist, people still insist it exists.

F: Reel Time Studios (RTS)
F1) Do we have a scan of the Reel Time Studios Session Tapes?

No, because all copies are sourced from Mike Po's DAT of the session tape. I held that DAT in my hand, though, and it was Mike's handwriting on it.

F2) Who originally put together the Tree?

Offtopic man, I believe.

G: Ignoffo Tape
G1) Which Ignoffo recording session are these tracks src'd from?

Hard to say. The Ignoffo sessions were a loose collection of various recordings. They went in to record whenever they had the money. The Reel Time Studios tape was a compilation of several sessions and we don't have details about any of them.

G2) Do we have a scan of this Ignoffo tape?

I have a photocopy of the cassette which was the source of the circulating copies. It was not ever called the "Ignoffo Tape". That name was tagged on by traders. The tape is simply labeled "Gish".

[MonteLDS]

Pmack is and always will be the discography man for the pumpkins!

now leak some Avalon (or am i so out of the circle of traders that it is already un-rare)