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Old 09-20-2019, 08:29 PM   #1
Ram27
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Default CMV: Chrysanthemum is the best song Corgan ever wrote

2001/11/16, less than a year after his band ended their illustrious career at the Metro, he opens his first gig with his new band with a song about yesterday.

He comes out, dressed in a white button down shirt - a far cry from the fantastical Machina dresses - and lets loose. Distortion blaring, the best drummer in the world backing, he sings:

Quote:
Yesterday, we were going somewhere
He realizes.

Quote:
A flower's still a flower crushed to dust inside my hand
Golden era SP was a flower; and even if it was crushed to dust inside Corgan's hand...it can still be a flower to us - through boots, through the old records, through old gigs, through this forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia
In some countries of Europe (e.g., France, Belgium, Italy, Spain, Poland, Hungary, Croatia), incurve chrysanthemums symbolize death and are used only for funerals or on graves
Corgan said that European audiences were the only ones that got the final Machina tour - the acoustic opening set, the somberness; the death of the band.

Whereas, in America, they didn't want that shit --

Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia
In the United States, the flower is usually regarded as positive and cheerful
Positive and cheerful - opening the final Metro gig with Rocket, closing with a 40+[?] minute Silverfuck, crying onstage......then starting a new band and opening up with this anthem -- the most positive and cheerful thing on the planet: Corgan down to earth, playing some kickass shit, JC on the drums....who could want more?


 
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:08 PM   #2
Funbags
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Zwan was the rightful successor to SP.

If Billy had let that band grow organically, he'd be in the RnR Hall of Fame by now.

 
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:18 PM   #3
enthusaroo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funbags View Post
Zwan was the rightful successor to SP.

If Billy had let that band grow organically, he'd be in the RnR Hall of Fame by now.

 
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Old 09-21-2019, 01:13 AM   #4
reprise85
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counterpoint: some siamese dream songs (mayo, hummer, soma, others to one's preference)
counterpoint: some MCIS songs (ruby, porcelina, others to preference)

i would put others as well (galapagos, glynis, geek usa), but i think most people would agree with the above
however i think it has a good shot at top 20, which is a good showing for sure, and didn't realize it before.

also zwan was definitely a great band with amazing potential.

 
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Old 09-21-2019, 11:45 AM   #5
Mals Marola
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hot take but i think Billy's best song might have come from the Machina era

it's a toss-up between Stand Inside, This Time, & Speed Kills, but nevertheless!

in any case, I don't think Zwan was such a natural follow-up to SP, it felt like a pretty sharp left turn after Machina, but they did have a coupla good songs

 
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Old 09-21-2019, 01:11 PM   #6
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I did not connect with the Zwan album at all. I tried and can't make it through any track.

 
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Old 09-21-2019, 01:26 PM   #7
cork_soaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
he opens his first gig with his new band with a song about yesterday.
added to the running list

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
Yesterday, we were going somewhere
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post

Chrysanthemum starts 2:00 into the first track and is amazing

Yesterday, we were going somewhere...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
yesterday we were going somewhere....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post

Chrysanthemum is a killer opener, especially given the context (yesterday we were going somewhere).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post

I do really enjoy the fact that the first word he sang post-pumpkins was 'yesterday'

 
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Old 09-21-2019, 02:02 PM   #8
Ram27
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thanks! i meant to add that to the post -- that someone quoted me masturbating about zwan 'yesterday' like 5 times

 
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Old 09-21-2019, 02:28 PM   #9
Yung Fancy Boy
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I like the song (and was present at the performance), but it really ain’t anything special. You’re reading too much into lyrics that were most likely just word salad, as is ol’ fat boi Bill’s writing method of choice. Rad drumming though

 
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Old 09-21-2019, 02:45 PM   #10
Woody
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MCIS > Zwan > Machina > Siamese Dream

In terms of 'eras' SD would be higher but has much less material than the others.

Zwan seemed like a return to mainstream appeal after chasing Manson-esque goth metal in Adore & Machina.

The truest thing I ever read on here was that if Bill had put out a live studio recording of Glasshouse tracks at the tail end of 2001 / start of 2002, that album would've done far better than MSOTS, because stripped down rock was in fashion and it was a solid, non-pretentious tracklist. The band had a buzz. Bill wrote 3-4 solid albums worth of songs under the Zwan moniker. Then just didn't.... fucking.... release them, and butchered some of them in production. I like MSOTS... but WTF was that album supposed to be? All credibility and indie cred thrown out the window.

Would love a soundboard of Glasshouse. Hopefully in the box set, though if Bill reads we want it he'll never put it out LOL!

Last edited by Woody : 09-21-2019 at 02:54 PM.

 
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Old 09-21-2019, 05:00 PM   #11
houseofglass11
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No. It's a good song but basically Speed pt. 2

Also, everyone knows Mayonaise is hands down the best SP song ever. Thnx

 
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Old 09-21-2019, 08:55 PM   #12
Ram27
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tbh I think it's Ruby outro [late 96 tour], Stumbeliene, and Hummer [drum and bass start it off]

 
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Old 09-21-2019, 10:50 PM   #13
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Alt take:

Golden era SP was the flower of Billy being a megalomaniac who alienated 99% of the people he came into contact with and was medicating his childhood trauma with fame like Jimmy was medicating himself with heroin. D’Arcy and James were along for the ride merely because they looked good on stage and served Billy’s narcissistic needs by helping the band gain more fame. There is nothing worth being terribly nostalgic about. Some of the music was pretty great but it came st a tremendous price, one that only an insane person like Billy would be willing to pay.

In other words, I agree that “Chrysanthemum” is a sick song.

 
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Old 09-22-2019, 12:31 AM   #14
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Billy has tried to retcon the Pumpkins as being the hub of his creative output, but I think that's absolute bullshit. The Pumpkins were Billy's journey from youth to adulthood, and Zwan was like Billy rising from the ashes into adulthood with a message of hope and healing. Both bands are a continuation of the same thread: Billy's personal journey to heal the wounds of his childhood.

Billy: "YOU DON'T KNOW ME OR MY LIFE FUCK YOU ZWAN SUCKED"

No Billy, you're wrong. And Zwan were better than the Pumpkins in many ways. So fuck YOU.

 
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Old 09-22-2019, 12:32 AM   #15
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Billy: YOU'RE NOT A FAN.

No Billy, YOU'RE not a fan.

 
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Old 09-22-2019, 03:43 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funbags View Post
Billy: YOU'RE NOT A FAN.

No Billy, YOU'RE not a fan.
I want to see this exchange to happen in real-time face-to-face.

 
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