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04-21-2014, 10:14 AM | #31 | |
Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 23,876
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Quote:
but there's nothing wrong at all with exploring theology. and theism aside there's nothing at all wrong with community. |
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04-21-2014, 11:10 AM | #32 |
huh
Posts: 62,456
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I just think the institution of Christianity is so damaging to American society that I can't see myself ever wanting to participate in it outside of weddings and funerals.
I'm obviously aware of progressive and good Christians who are attempting to bring more progressive ideas into Christianity. But eh. |
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04-21-2014, 12:15 PM | #33 |
Socialphobic
Posts: 11,831
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i think we should all just follow the teachings of jesus and leave it at that
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04-21-2014, 12:49 PM | #34 |
Brazilian Blouselord
Location: heavy metal pool party
Posts: 35,781
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I'll be damned if I follow a Mexican.
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04-21-2014, 01:27 PM | #35 | |
Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 23,876
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Quote:
I understand the notion of community, though, and I think for many agnostics who are raised in a religious tradition (especially straight white people who aren't going to be demonized or persecuted were they to remain in their religion) there's a social and cultural void in their lives when they leave that religious tradition. |
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04-21-2014, 01:32 PM | #36 |
Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 23,876
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I'd very much like to check this out. but as of today the closest one is Chicago. something tells me, though, that the American versions won't ******* the cursing hipster MC
http://sundayassembly.com/ Last edited by MyOneAndOnly : 04-21-2014 at 01:49 PM. |
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04-21-2014, 01:36 PM | #37 |
Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 23,876
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04-21-2014, 02:12 PM | #38 |
Minion of Satan
Location: bye
Posts: 7,266
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this thread is a great example of why sola scriptura is the least accurate way of understanding Christianity even though people who believe in it think they're being the most rigorous
i guess people really do choose churches based on which one will affirm all their bullshit and never require them to conform. just choose one of 5675987 christianity spinoffs |
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04-21-2014, 02:18 PM | #39 | |
Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 23,876
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Quote:
I think it's more likely that people stay where they are raised and they tolerate or turn a blind eye to the negative aspects of their religion |
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04-21-2014, 03:38 PM | #40 |
Consume my pants.
Location: Missouri
Posts: 36,099
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Atheist Church: A Place for Smug, Self-Satisfied White People to Gather Together and Backslap and Appreciate Each Other's Smugness
Perfect for Scotty. |
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04-21-2014, 03:58 PM | #41 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
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a Christian who doesn't believe in the resurrection is definitely skirting the fringes of what constitutes Christianity. I'm all for the right to identify oneself, but that seems to be really pushing it
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04-21-2014, 04:05 PM | #42 |
huh
Posts: 62,456
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I mean it's basically Reform Judaism then? Sort of? I dunno.
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04-21-2014, 04:14 PM | #43 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
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the Church was very meticulous about picking texts for the canon that balanced Jesus' humanity with his godliness (this is called Christology) because both are essential parts of his identity. So if you think Christ was just a dude and not at all God, that just like hard for me to understand how it is still Christianity. Before Christianity was canonized though, it was a much wider umbrella... even so, that's pretty radical
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04-21-2014, 05:14 PM | #44 |
Socialphobic
Location: we are champions, bathed in the heat of a thousand flame wars in the grim future of the internet there is only netphoria
Posts: 12,467
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Trusting in Christ's divinity and trusting in his physical resurrection are two different things. One doesn't necessarily entail the other.
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04-21-2014, 05:58 PM | #45 | |
Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 23,876
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Quote:
The resurrection is proof of his divinity. Its not the resurrection tho that's the most unbelievable. Its the divinity itself. |
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04-21-2014, 06:03 PM | #46 | |
Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 23,876
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Quote:
You're correct though about Christ's divinity. Without it what's the difference between Jesus and John the baptist? |
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04-21-2014, 06:21 PM | #47 |
Socialphobic
Location: we are champions, bathed in the heat of a thousand flame wars in the grim future of the internet there is only netphoria
Posts: 12,467
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There is no proof of his divinity and as you say, stories about the resurrection seem to have surfaced a number of years after his death, rather than immediately afterward, so if that were the proof it wouldn't be enough for most inquisitive people anyway. And yet many of us still trust that he is and was divine, without trusting that he was physically resurrected after his execution.
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04-21-2014, 06:23 PM | #48 | |
Socialphobic
Location: we are champions, bathed in the heat of a thousand flame wars in the grim future of the internet there is only netphoria
Posts: 12,467
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Quote:
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04-21-2014, 06:25 PM | #49 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: all over the Internet
Posts: 44,548
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look what you started, john.
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04-21-2014, 06:29 PM | #50 |
**************
Location: I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
Posts: 8,661
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I'm still laughing about an argument between two kids of befriended neighbors today.
Younger one is five and apparently learning about resurrection and ascension in pre-school. Her 7-year-old brother suggested that Jesus could have used some sort of hot-air balloon "to get up there." That drove the little one to scream in a hysterical voice (the sort of sound that makes your skin crawl and only a girl that age can produce): "WRONG, JESUS WAS A MAGICIAN!" Followed by her brother stating Jesus must have been a shitty magician, otherwise he would have escaped crucifixion in the first place. Highly entertaining. |
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04-21-2014, 06:35 PM | #51 |
Socialphobic
Location: we are champions, bathed in the heat of a thousand flame wars in the grim future of the internet there is only netphoria
Posts: 12,467
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Ha, kids.
I heard once that if Jesus has been ascending to heaven at the speed of light, he is currently still in the Milky Way. Kinda comforting I guess. |
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04-21-2014, 06:49 PM | #52 |
*****
Posts: 15,731
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This is my church
No one tells me I'm going to hell No one tells me I'm not worthy to receive it I don't have to be anything that I'm not I don't have to tithe to it I don't have to feel guilty about anything I can come and go when I feel like I can dress however I please I can sing, dance, or be silent I'm accepted here http://i61.tinypic.com/fvbqdi.jpg |
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04-21-2014, 06:55 PM | #53 |
*****
Posts: 15,731
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A lot of people do. I have. I've gone through phases where I'm searching for something, but everywhere I went, it never felt completely right. There was always something missing. I do believe in God, but I cannot attach myself to any specific doctrine. When I try there's always something that goes up against my personal beliefs and it ultimately never works out because I'm not willing to change who I am.
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04-21-2014, 07:00 PM | #54 | |
Virgo
Posts: 42,781
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Quote:
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04-21-2014, 07:41 PM | #55 | |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
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Quote:
you are incorrect about your "no bigger tent" point. First of all, Christianity began as many, many tiny little extremist cults, and the diversity of belief that existed in the first few decades after Jesus' death is striking. Later it was absorbed into larger and larger units, but the first "Christians" were probably almost all extremists practicing in secret. The early Christians were primarily Jews but they were also inspired by the Greek stoics and cynics, "pagan" local religions in the near-east, contemporary mystery cults, and tons of other places. Read Mark by itself (it was written first) and shelf all contextual and background knowledge you have about greater Christianity. You will find it is less familiar than you remember. The four gospels themselves each came from different groups of worshipers in very different places. And that is obviously excluding the enormous amount of early-Christian texts that were not canonized, usually because they were too far removed from the vision of the Church and its grip on power. I mean, the Gnostics came from the exact same tradition as Roman Catholicism except they were eliminated. That alone pretty much pulls the rug out from under your assertion that there was no "bigger tent." You are also not really correct about the resurrection being a refutation of Judaism (an oversimplification if you will). The followers of the Gospel of Mark were almost certainly still Jewish by identification, yet right at the end, you see Jesus' body mysteriously missing from his tomb. Perhaps not an explicit resurrection like you get in John, but the idea is already there that the Jewish Messiah is not as afflicted by death as his followers at first thought. |
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04-21-2014, 07:45 PM | #56 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
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So I actually lean more towards vixnix' argument that Jesus' Christology and his resurrection are not directly linked. Except that the idea of the resurrection (or at least of something supernatural happening to his body after death) most likely predates the idea that he is divine.
But either way, no resurrection seems to fly in the face of even the most liberal interpretation of the canonical gospels. |
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04-21-2014, 07:47 PM | #57 | |
Banned
Posts: 5,711
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i'm just going to ignore this because it's ridiculous |
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04-21-2014, 07:53 PM | #58 |
Banned
Posts: 5,711
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it's ridiculous that you're snarking on me for this. who gives a shit.
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04-21-2014, 07:53 PM | #59 |
Braindead
Location: I was just reading, right?
Posts: 15,023
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Maybe you shouldn't. Netphoria hasn't had a decent argument turned flame war in at least 3 or 4 days or something.
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04-21-2014, 07:55 PM | #60 |
Brazilian Blouselord
Location: heavy metal pool party
Posts: 35,781
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Charmbag is a bully. Who cares what she thinks?
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