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Old 01-24-2014, 03:45 AM   #1
Extremis
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Default Jeff vs. James

Im not going to say that Jeff is a bad musician and quite frankly I think he has TRIED to save the smashing pumpkins songs live by giving them new life but at the end of the day.. hes not it.. not James. If it was never for James there would have never been smashing pumpkins

 
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:11 AM   #2
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They have the same amount of stage presence as each other, i.e. very little.

 
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:13 AM   #3
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If Jeff were to say, have co-founded Smashing Pumpkins, would you say he is it... James?

Or perhaps that would make James it... Jeff?

 
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Old 01-24-2014, 05:28 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shallowed View Post
They have the same amount of stage presence as each other, i.e. very little.
Nah, until '96 or so James was the banter king.

 
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Old 01-24-2014, 05:55 AM   #5
Shallowed
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Yeah especially in 92.

But I was more referring to stage presence while actually performing music. OP admits that Jeff holds up well on the guitar while he's playing, but doesn't goof off and doesn't add any personality to the band when he's not playing guitar like James does.

But really the criteria for OP to be happy with Jeff has nothing to do with his guitar playing, it has to with him not being James.

 
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:03 AM   #6
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you can easily say that jeff is a more skilled guitarist, but does that make him better for smashing pumpkins than james? not really. I mean, you can play the hardest van halen lick, but that doesn't mean you can contribute to the band in terms of writing and creating a better sound.
what proves that? the sole fact that after james left, none of the SP albums have matched the earlier ones in terms of quality and creativity.

 
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:55 AM   #7
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shit thread is shit

 
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:26 PM   #8
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if a long haired asian guy (and a girl) weren't in the band it wouldn't have been as iconic in the 90s

but people who miss the bandmates for that reason are generally the dumbest. i admit the interviews and documentaries will never be the same, but i think people overemphasize how that shaped the music, especially in the latter years where their relationship became more and more of a business one.

i miss the atmospherics james would add. but on the other hand jeff is way more skilled

 
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:44 PM   #9
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oh who the fuck cares

 
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:47 PM   #10
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I don't agree with much said about Jeff and James.

I have always found that James' personality was balanced with the rest of the band when you think of the old SP. Also, James also has discussed many times about working with dynamic front men. I think James just as jeff knows that Billy is the star of the show (jeff was probably told though) and not interested in taking a lot of the limelight.

James unlike jeff is a comedian and also unlike jeff wasn't on stage with his boss.
I do miss James and D'arcy a lot because they were so silly and sarcastic and balanced Billy out. The silly and sarcastic remarks of SP were what made them so likeable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream View Post
shit thread is shit
agree with this, tired of the jeff/james debate.

 
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Old 01-24-2014, 05:09 PM   #11
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http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...jpg?1317088942

 
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Old 01-24-2014, 06:32 PM   #12
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james had a salmon suit and had a plastic lobster on his amp that i believe tessa gave him on the machina stop in austin

what the fuck does jeff do, i mean really

there's a thing about stage presence

plus he did the zero solo

is this a contest i'm so bored

 
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Old 01-24-2014, 06:32 PM   #13
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worst part is that bill was mad about the salmon colored suit because he wanted james to wear a stupid constume of bill corgan's design

when you got a bandmate with flash already you just let him go do his damn thing, okay? salmon colored suits!

 
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Old 01-24-2014, 08:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
worst part is that bill was mad about the salmon colored suit because he wanted james to wear a stupid constume of bill corgan's design

when you got a bandmate with flash already you just let him go do his damn thing, okay? salmon colored suits!
Billy wanted James to wear a t-shirt with Corgans bald head on it. True story.

 
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:07 PM   #15
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I feel like I've written this post and deleted it a million times but here's my take:

James is a lazy, laid back, mellow player. He has a less is more style.

Jeff is an academic and plays like one, trying to express as much information as possible.

 
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:32 PM   #16
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:58 PM   #17
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the appeal of listening to live james era recordings is the punk rock sound of it. jimmy always rushing, darcy always dragging, james always playing slightly out of tune, billy always improvising every solo never singing in tune. the hired guns now play "properly" which i'm sure billy loves, but the aesthetic appeal of everything sounding like it's going to fall apart any second is simply not there. it's a different band entirely and while the technical proficiency is there (i rag excessively on byrne, he's better than decent) i think they sound like a karaoke act.

 
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Old 01-25-2014, 12:04 AM   #18
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think about it this way: if you heard the marked demos in 1988, would you stick with bill thinking to yourself "hell yeah, this guy is going places. straight to the fucking top". i feel like james was the only guy that would actually be in a band with bill, and bill knew the value of that loyalty. james was irreplacable in that respect. even if he, quite honestly, kind of sucked shit at playing guitar.

 
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Old 01-25-2014, 12:19 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bread Regal View Post
if you heard the marked demos in 1988, would you stick with bill thinking to yourself "hell yeah, this guy is going places. straight to the fucking top". i feel like james was the only guy that would actually be in a band with bill, and bill knew the value of that loyalty.
There's a quote from yet another guitar magazine where Corgan says, regarding one of the first times he got together with James, that James had a song and Corgan fucked with it so hard and rode James about it that James left and he didn't hear from him for about 3 months. BC thought he pissed him off for good that early on.

I think this set the tone for "don't mess w/ james' songs at all and subsequently don't care about t**** further down the line

 
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Old 01-25-2014, 12:49 AM   #20
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D'arcy fought his battles after that.

 
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Old 01-25-2014, 01:15 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliana View Post
D'arcy fought his battles after that.
truth.

i use james and d'arcy's breakup as the marking point.

i think it was when that happened that they were both finally forced to take what would become their roles in the band - d'arcy becomes more assertive in the studio and eventually more daring personally (and mind-reading for james) while james slowly withdraws to the point of non-involvement.

meanwhile jimmy had his own thing going on...

Last edited by slunken : 01-25-2014 at 01:20 AM.

 
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Old 01-25-2014, 01:31 AM   #22
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James was a passive aggressive bitch behind closed doors. D'arcy enabled james to put up with Billy and Billy found it easier to not fight D'arcy. Jimmy was a cock sucker who made their lives hell but they put up with him because of his talent. Billy had extreme mental issues; rage, depression, nagging...

My guesses:
Billy wanted James to be his bff but james only liked D'arcy.
D'arcy hated Jimmy.

 
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Old 01-25-2014, 01:41 AM   #23
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Jeff is a far superior musician technically and his style is much more similar to Billy's. A lot of his influences are 70s/80s masturbatory lead guitar bands.

James really had his own thing going with the orchestral parts and other shit he added to songs, and I think he probably brought more to the table because his style was so different than Billy's.

didn't we just have this thread

 
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Old 01-25-2014, 01:48 AM   #24
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Yes we did.

 
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Old 01-25-2014, 01:55 AM   #25
slunken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliana View Post
James was a passive aggressive bitch behind closed doors. D'arcy enabled james to put up with Billy and Billy found it easier to not fight D'arcy. Jimmy was a cock sucker who made their lives hell but they put up with him because of his talent. Billy had extreme mental issues; rage, depression, nagging...

My guesses:
Billy wanted James to be his bff but james only liked D'arcy.
D'arcy hated Jimmy.
basically yes. rough sketch but extremely accurrate (this is all purely speculative). But to his credit jimmy always went out of his way to be nice to d'arcy - she just hated him for superficial reasons.

 
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Old 01-25-2014, 01:56 AM   #26
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jimmy was always on extra goofball mode around her - trynna make her laff and stuff.

she hated what she thought he stood for.

 
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Old 01-25-2014, 02:00 AM   #27
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in an attempt to steer back onto topic, in the studio i imagine before james ever got around to saying anything regarding a song billy was already onto something else with other ideas

which is why all james' best work was recorded in a separate room and just trusted to come up with "parts" (mcis and adore).

 
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Old 01-25-2014, 02:07 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slunken View Post
in an attempt to steer back onto topic, in the studio i imagine before james ever got around to saying anything regarding a song billy was already onto something else with other ideas

which is why all james' best work was recorded in a separate room and just trusted to come up with "parts" (mcis and adore).
Billy gave them that room so they could do things on their own. I think Billy wanted to figure out a way to make James happy and not compromise the album. But only as much as a billy could.

Billy even now says he wishes he should have realized what james was coming up with. He says he gets it now. James' new album fixes a lot of the issues he had prior.

 
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Old 01-25-2014, 02:17 AM   #29
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Anyone got examples of D'arcy hating Jimmy?

 
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Old 01-25-2014, 02:19 AM   #30
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There are probably pics some where of a dump she took on his drums.

 
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