Other bands with James/D'arcy situations

[Mals Marola]

I was talkin' with someone today about The Holy Bible by Manic Street Preachers, and when we got to talking about Richey Edwards & his role in the band I said I thought it seemed like a James/D'arcy situation where he had a minimal presence on the records but was a huge part of the band's image & persona.

Another one could I guess be Happy Mondays, with Bez, though I don't know how much they actually "inducted" him as a full-on member of the band. & after reading Peter Hook's book on New Order, it seems Gillian Gilbert was a similar situation as well

One thing at least half of these have in common is that despite the arrangement, when these members left their respective bands for even a finite amount of time, fans complained that the music "wasn't as good" because of it

I dunno, seemed like a good diversion from all the Monuments to an Allergy talk, so have at it

[Catherine Wheel]

James has songwriting credits on mayonnaise and soma and I am one. Those are considered important songs by most fans. You could say that Darcy was all image / no substance but not James.

[Catherine Wheel]

As far as Mellon collie didn’t he also co-write farewell and goodnight another song that is considered important and he came up with guitar solo for zero and love even though he’s not credited. He really did play enough songwriting role with first three albums to say he’s more than just a pretty face.

[Mals Marola]

I said minimal presence on the records not none ya fuckin' TIT

[FoolofaTook]

he's just trying to get ppl riled up by talking shit about darcy

that's some low level trollationing, kimono sharter. i would know.

[Catherine Wheel]

James doesn’t have a minimal presence on sp songs. That’s what I’m trying to say. I don’t agree. His Role in the band is a lot like Kim thayils role in soundgarden to me. James has way too many songwriting credits in early days of band for me to see him as having a minimal presence

[Zer0 Hour]

LOL, what? Kim Thayil’s presence is noticeable on like every fucking Soundgarden song.

[redbreegull]

The Beatles. George Harrison is a James Iha and D'arcy is a Ringo

[Catherine Wheel]

Kim doesn’t have many songwriting credits on later stuff like down on the upside. But on earlier stuff like superunkown and the one before that he has bigger role. But even on those early albums he’s not songwriter on every song.

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Catherine Wheel

Kim doesn’t have many songwriting credits on later stuff like down on the upside. But on earlier stuff like superunkown and the one before that he has bigger role. But even on those early albums he’s not songwriter on every song.

He is the focus guitar player in the band. Billy is the primary guitar player in SP, not James. Every single Soundgarden song has what is blatantly obviously Kim Thayil jizzing fat riffs all over it.

James' influence is way more sparse and subtle, and even if you believe he played or wrote parts for most songs, that's a huge assumption we don't have evidence for

[Sonic Johnny]

WTF Kim Thayil is the thing that makes Soundgarden sick. Down on the upside is a snoozer anyway. That's like saying Jerry Cantrell isn't important to Alice In Chains.

[redbreegull]

yo Kim Thayil has some sick fucking guitar work on Down on the Upside.

I understand that it's like their Machina, but it's kind of an underrated record IMHO

[Mals Marola]

I knew I was skirting somewhat close to Cat Wheel territory with this thread but little did I know the Mad Cat would come in & fuck shit up in such a beautiful, trademark way. God bless you Cathy

[Slurpee]

Chris, Tina, and Jerry from Talking Heads all played James-ish roles, their influence is there, but it just adds flavor. Byrne is Billy and Eno, when present, is Jimmy. They other three, as one reviewer described them, are just David Byrne's somewhat talented backing band.

And yes, I know about the Tom Tom Club.

[Catherine Wheel]

Ed o Brian comes to mind. Haven’t people remarked over years that he’s the only Radiohead member with no real talent? And what about the bass player for Coldplay? Wasn’t he just hired cus of his looks essentially?

[smashingjj]

agreed, the talents of their bass player are DWARFED by those of the other Coldplay members

[Zer0 Hour]

Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny

WTF Kim Thayil is the thing that makes Soundgarden sick. Down on the upside is a snoozer anyway. That's like saying Jerry Cantrell isn't important to Alice In Chains.

Hey now, we shouldn’t discount Cornell’s incredible vocal performance. Best singer of the grunge/alternative era, technically at least.

[Shallowed]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

The Beatles. George Harrison is a James Iha and D'arcy is a Ringo

Fuck oooooooooff. The George-James comparison is worse than anything Kimono Shithead has ever conjured up.

[Shallowed]

Bilinda Butcher is kind of like a combination of D'arcy and James, I feel.

She joined the band on the condition that she learned to play guitar. I don't know if she actually plays guitar on any of their records. Definitely not Loveless. When they play live, she often doesn't even play guitar at all. On most live recordings, her guitar is almost always completely inaudible, or extremely quiet.

However she does write a lot of the lyrics and of course sings and is a huge part of MBV's image. See: the To Here Knows When music video.

[FoolofaTook]

man i don't know. bilinda has an wonderful voice. fits the music perfectly.

[Mals Marola]

Andy Fletcher of Depeche Mode seems to do nothing, or at least very, very little musically in the band & is often credited as their "financial manager" despite having always been credited & presented as a full-on member of the band

Ever since Alan Wilder left the actual musical "core" of the band has basically been Martin, Dave and whoever's producing them at the time

[Mals Marola]

Curt Smith of Tears for Fears was relegated from lead vocalist/bassist to bassist/vox on maybe one song if he was lucky and additional "pretty boy" within like an album

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Shallowed

Fuck oooooooooff. The George-James comparison is worse than anything Kimono Shithead has ever conjured up.

George Harrison was more talented than any Pumpkin, but I think the dynamic is similar. His guitar style makes a subtle impact in their music but he didn't write very much of it, and when he did attempt to contribute he was often edged out by the more extreme personalities in the band.

the main difference in this analogy is that George proved himself to be an astounding songwriter and musician in his own right once he graduated from the band, and James' most glorious post-band moment was playing Mayonaise live in Japan and having people call it a cover

[Mals Marola]

There was also the difference of George's Beatles songs being ones you'd often here in "best of Beatles" lists, i.e. Taxman & While My Guitar Gently Weeps. Who's out here reppin' "Blew Away" as a top 5 Pumpkins? Not to undercut James because I do like some of his tracks, but he wasn't really on par with Corgan in the way Harrison was with Lennon/McCartney

[redbreegull]

That is certainly true, but I still think it is a fairly accurate comparison vs. most of the others which have come up ITT. Two guys dominate the band, then there is an underappreciated, understated 3rd person, and a 4th person who actually contributes almost nothing to the creative process, but the 3rd and 4th person are perceived as being critical to the band's identity regardless.

[myosis]

george played on the records

[myosis]

what about the boys in Prodigy?

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by myosis

george played on the records

James also played on the records.

Paul McCartney would also go back and rerecord the parts played by other band members.

[Mals Marola]

Originally Posted by myosis

what about the boys in Prodigy?

I guess if we're going this direction might as well throw in The Real McCoy

[Shallowed]

Some bands have a member that is analogous to George Harrison. As in, the under-appreciated occasional songwriter that was allowed a couple of their songs on each album, and were usually the best, or at least stand outs.

Sonic Youth - Lee Ranaldo
The Brian Jonestown Massacre - Matt Hollywood