Libertarians

[Elphenor]

"The glass house of academia"

lololol

[Elphenor]

No he's not. Saying that there is a "false left-right paradigm aimed to divide and conquer" is more conspiracy nonsense that comes from a place of zero understanding of American history and politics.

[Elphenor]

Except that's not true.

What is true is that the country has moved so far right politically that what are moderate ideas in every other developed democracy are considered liberal ideas in The States.

But there are significant differences between our mainstream right and left.

But the actual point is that the words Liberal and Conservative do have general meanings that exist because of America's political history and not because of some sort of scheme from the powerful to divide people.

[jczeroman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyzi9GNZFMU

[Trotskilicious]

What were you thinking bosnor? Reason has no place in political debate!

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyzi9GNZFMU

Do you know why so few people live in the mountains? Because it fucking sucks.

The whole idea behind civilized life is that when we work together we can create a better life for everyone. When you take our ability to form groups away we pretty much suck as a species.

[Elphenor]

Anarchism is a rejection of the best part of humanity, our ability to organize and care about things other than our own personal gain.

The problem is not Democracy, the problem is that Americans have rejected democracy in exchange for fake Capitalism and corporate rulers.

[Elphenor]

I feel like you're trolling me

[Elphenor]

I assume you're packing your bags for "shack in Alaska" where everyone is better off so that's cool.

[Trotskilicious]

this country was indeed founded to make a few rich guys more money

common person is dead at 25 if they lived in a shack in alaska by themselves

unfortunately monkeys have this habit of hanging out with each other, crazy weird i know :S

[Trotskilicious]

CIVILIZATION HAS PRODUCED NOTHING BUT MISERY RICHARD DAVID JAMES AVATAR TOOL VIDEO

[Elphenor]

I think it was founded on the idea of representation but the founders were still elitist garbage who didn't trust the average citizen.

[Trotskilicious]

i mean if that makes you feel better then you're not the first

[Luke de Spa]

i'm far from an american history buff so i can't really comment on the viability of this, but i found it pretty interesting: http://weeklysift.com/2014/08/11/not...ederate-party/

[Order 66]

as a libertarian i don't think we have anything to do with confederates or republicans or anything else coherent because [/incompressible word salad

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyzi9GNZFMU

I just think its interesting. I was interviewing for a job in Scotland and met a guy who told me about James C. Scott and I've since been reading his stuff. It's compelling at the very least.

While there is no question I am enjoying civilisation right now, I think that if I felt at greater risk of oppression by the state, yes, I would probably flee to the hills and the forests.

[Eulogy]

What kind/level of oppression?

[duovamp]

Level 5.

[Elphenor]

Libertarians just have the wrong enemy. The government at least in the US barely does anything. Everything is run by the private sector pretty much.
The State is not about to take over everything but corporations already have.

[Elphenor]

Do you know what democracy is?

[Elphenor]

Would you rather have elected leaders or would you rather have unelected corporate kings?

Because those are the only real options, man. Any sort of anarchy with result in the unelected powerful ruling over the weak.

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

What kind/level of oppression?

Originally Posted by duovamp

Level 5.

Yup.

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by Poots

The real question is: does it matter who is in control? The problem is that it's not us.

Originally Posted by Elphenor

Do you know what democracy is?

Originally Posted by Elphenor

Would you rather have elected leaders or would you rather have unelected corporate kings?

Because those are the only real options, man. Any sort of anarchy with result in the unelected powerful ruling over the weak.

I can think of no democracies currently on the planet. The US is definitely far from one. Those governments which are pseudo-democracies are ruled by the wealthy and the well-connected.

Even the most extreme democracy in human history (5th century BC Athens) was ruled by wealthy elites. There offices were filled by lot, with term limits - and it was still the elites who made policy.

[Elphenor]

Ugh.

I don't mean literal democracy. But the idea of democracy which leads to representative governments.

We're still ruled by the wealthy and elite, but there is a forced agreement between us that they have to respond to our needs and desires.
Is there corruption? Yes, a fuck ton of it. But at the end of the day when you look at policy it almost always matches the will of the people. It's not so much the actual elections that effect things, tons of Americans don't even vote, it's the threat of passing a law that would cause people to vote that scares politicians into doing things that benefit us even if they are wealthy elites who don't give a fuck about us.

It's this "It's all about me" uber-libertarian attitude that has made so easy for the powerful to fuck us. When we band together and fight for the well-being of a fair and just society they are beholden to us.

It's not all or nothing.

[Elphenor]

The elites are going to rule no matter what. It's simply a case of whether you want the ability to contain their influence via a strong republic, or if you want to let them openly rape you in an every man for himself anarchy

[Elphenor]

Anarchism is such a half-baked idea.

YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD BE COOL GUYS. IF WE DIDN'T HAVE FOLLOW RULES. YEAH!

It's the idea you come up with after you get in a fight with your Dad for the first time

[Elphenor]

Hate to break this to you, but most policy that's unpopular now was popular when it was enacted
People were happy to re-elect Bush, let the government tap our phones, go to war etc.
The dude didn't do anything that people were not asking for.

People were overwhelming happy to elect Reagen and they loved when he busted unions and handed all the power to the banks.

We spend ridiculous amounts on military because that's what Americans asked for. Corporations run everything because we asked for a super powerful private sector.

Half the country is fucking stupid and that's why half our government is stupid.

We don't tax the wealthy enough because most Americans still worship rich people.

It could be an issue of education, culture, and brainwashing but pretty much this country sucks because Americans suck.

[Elphenor]

If Americans REALLY wanted to take this country back from the elites it would happen.
But they don't give a fuck because they're too busy trying to become rich themselves

[Trotskilicious]

elph shut the fuck up

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

I can think of no democracies currently on the planet. The US is definitely far from one. Those governments which are pseudo-democracies are ruled by the wealthy and the well-connected.

Even the most extreme democracy in human history (5th century BC Athens) was ruled by wealthy elites. There offices were filled by lot, with term limits - and it was still the elites who made policy.

just need to kill those elites and take their money every now and again