Bowe Bergdahl = Impeach Obama

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Starla

The point is this, what about all of the other people out there who cannot afford high premiums, or can only afford what is in the marketplace, but are not going to get the medications or doctors that they need? If these plans will not offer the full range of care, then they still go without. This act was supposed to provide affordable care for everyone, and let me tell you, it's not affordable for me.

these are great questions, but i'd like to know why you blame obama and this nebulous concept of "obamacare" (a conservative buzzphrase for the ACA that "liberals" like Futureboy further extended to make it some kind of pejorative catch all for a multifaceted program with a lot of ins and a lot of outs) instead of the private insurance companies that are literally profiting from human misery

further, again, the fact that half of the states have denied the expansion of medicare is why A LOT of the people you feel are being victimized are actually being victimized

one of the reasons the declination of expansion of medicaid is such a slam dunk for GOP states is because they know people will blame obama for the fact that they don't have access to affordable care, and you're feeding directly into that misconception

[FutureBoy]

Originally Posted by Order 66

thats cool. i know you don't have the intellectual capacity for a coherent rebuttal so maybe you should neg rep a bunch of people and go make sandwiches at subway or whatever it is you do

so at what point would the launch window close, like next year or something

[FutureBoy]

drugs are bad trots

[Trotskilicious]

like i said, ultimately the for-profit health industry is the issue as well as the fact that general americans are terrified of socialized medicine

perhaps the failures of obamacare will open that discussion more, perhaps it won't, but ultimately a lot of the things obama is being held accountable for are systemic problems that extend well beyond his grasp

[Order 66]

Originally Posted by FutureBoy

so at what point would the launch window close, like next year or something

10 million people were insured early in the year you fucking idiot

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

most of your criticism seems to stem from the fact that it's difficult to get uninsured people covered, or the fact that they now have to pay for something they were flirting with disaster in the first place for not having, and assorted apocryphal my cousin's friends sister nonsense

yeah it's inconvenienced some, mostly the young and healthy, and benefited the old, the poor in states that expanded medicaid, and people with pre-existing conditions

also i'm fairly sure your state didn't expand medicare so blame your state republicans for that not this nebulous "obamacare" you scapegoat for everything

also i like how you refer to "obamacare wouldn't have helped me." that doesn't even make sense. you can't be denied coverage for pre existing conditions and a host of other things are benefiting you already, even if you're not using them. your daughter, for example, will be able to use your health coverage until she's in her mid 20s.

yeah health care is expensive and now people have to buy it. oh dear the sky is falling

No, it makes perfect sense. If I had to go through any of the plans in the market place, I would not get the medication or coverage I need. Thankfully, I don't have to, but what about other people?

Medicaid expansion goes on the ballot this fall, and will be left up to the people to decide.

[FutureBoy]

Originally Posted by Order 66

10 million people were insured early in the year you fucking idiot

so it's still going then, let me know when it ends

[Order 66]

it did close. and it was a success. and you're fucking retarded

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Starla

No, it makes perfect sense. If I had to go through any of the plans in the market place, I would not get the medication or coverage I need. Thankfully, I don't have to, but what about other people?

your experience isn't universal, for one thing

and second, well shit mostly it's the first thing. but still, you're complaining about the high cost of something they didn't ever have access to at all before. Further, ultimately the people being "hurt" by obamacare are the young & healthy, and the people who benefit are mostly the old, poor, and people with chronic conditions and other situations. I'm sure there are exceptions but there's going to be outliers for everything. i'm not discounting their experience but ultimately it's a systemic problem, not a result of the grim specter of "obmacare"

So, I'm still not certain how you act as if this is somekind of universal truth that the fact that you couldn't get cheaper care through the marketplace means that everyone in the country is getting fucked...it's just not true and it's coming out of conservative propaganda machines (like alex jones and infowars) that you often get sucked into for some reason

yeah my service industry buddies now need to cough up like 200 a month or more that they didn't have to before because of the ACA, but ultimately why isn't their place of employment contributing like mine is? Again, systemic exploitation of labor, not "obamacare"

Medicaid expansion goes on the ballot this fall, and will be left up to the people to decide.

and it will be rejected because obama and socialism

[FutureBoy]

Originally Posted by Order 66

it did close. and it was a success. and you're fucking retarded

ok thanks

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

these are great questions, but i'd like to know why you blame obama and this nebulous concept of "obamacare" (a conservative buzzphrase for the ACA that "liberals" like Futureboy further extended to make it some kind of pejorative catch all for a multifaceted program with a lot of ins and a lot of outs) instead of the private insurance companies that are literally profiting from human misery

further, again, the fact that half of the states have denied the expansion of medicare is why A LOT of the people you feel are being victimized are actually being victimized

one of the reasons the declination of expansion of medicaid is such a slam dunk for GOP states is because they know people will blame obama for the fact that they don't have access to affordable care, and you're feeding directly into that misconception

Those are some great questions.... and I'd love to know what is going to be done to fix the problems.

I'm not against medicaid expansion, I never was. BUT, I have said that medicaid offers poor care, and I stand by that. Medicaid is the same thing as what I had growing up on tribal health... and I've watched too many die on it, from poor care and poor outcomes, and a lot of the doctors who accept it, are not that great either.

This act is not going to stop insurance companies from profiting from human misery.

I think debating all of the reasons I don't like Obama (and it's not just health care issues) is a waste of time.

[FutureBoy]

you feel better order, been sitting on that for a while huh champ

[Trotskilicious]

yeah lets just trash the program because it doesn't benefit you

spoken like true conservatives

[Order 66]

Originally Posted by FutureBoy

ok thanks

no prob dumbass

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

your experience isn't universal, for one thing

and second, well shit mostly it's the first thing. but still, you're complaining about the high cost of something they didn't ever have access to at all before. Further, ultimately the people being "hurt" by obamacare are the young & healthy, and the people who benefit are mostly the old, poor, and people with chronic conditions and other situations. I'm sure there are exceptions to everything but there's going to be outliers for everything.

So, I'm still not certain how you act as if this is somekind of universal truth that the fact that you couldn't get cheaper care through the marketplace means that everyone in the country is getting fucked...it's just not true and it's coming out of conservative propaganda machines (like alex jones and infowars) that you often get sucked into for some reason

yeah my service industry buddies now need to cough up like 200 a month or more that they didn't have to before because of the ACA, but ultimately why isn't their place of employment contributing like mine is? Again, systemic exploitation of labor, not "obamacare"



and it will be rejected because obama and socialism

Do you know how many people in America have multiple sclerosis and need expensive drugs that they will not be able to access through the market place?

The only drugs available right now is Copaxone and Rebif, but neurologists do not prescribe those as much anymore because they are older, and do not work as well.

My problem is common..... and if people with ms cannot get the care they need through the marketplace, they will go without it, especially if they cannot afford another plan outside of that.

That's one example for you. I haven't even gotten into the cancer medications and experimental treatments no longer offered.

This has not just hurt the young and healthy. It's hurting people who can no longer afford their insurance premiums...

Thank you for assuming that my information (which is based on what I see on the job) is all based on Alex Jones and infowars.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

yeah lets just trash the program because it doesn't benefit you

spoken like true conservatives

Are you talking to me?

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Starla

Those are some great questions.... and I'd love to know what is going to be done to fix the problems.

well that's no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water

this thing does A LOT of good for people, but you seem not to even give it that much credit, apparently because the marketplace didn't save you any money.

I'm not against medicaid expansion, I never was. BUT, I have said that medicaid offers poor care, and I stand by that. Medicaid is the same thing as what I had growing up on tribal health... and I've watched too many die on it, from poor care and poor outcomes, and a lot of the doctors who accept it, are not that great either.

No kidding. America's social programs suck, that's not the fault of the social program itself. You're using personal experiences to justify conservative narratives. Instead of being mad at the people who make medicaid suck, you're mad at medicaid itself. A fat, rich white guy smiles in his leather bound chair somewhere when he reads things like this.

I think debating all of the reasons I don't like Obama (and it's not just health care issues) is a waste of time.

i'm not here endorsing obama, i'm just getting really sick of people complaining about something that they seem not to understand

and it's not about pointing out how it under-serves people or its shortcomings, that would be productive, it seems more like you ultimately want it repealed for a lot of emotional reasons that fall apart under scrutiny

ultimately i think you don't like this because you can't see how it benefits you directly

ultimately why i think FB doesn't like it is because he is a cynical dickhead

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Starla

Are you talking to me?

absolutely

do you know how much you sound like a republican?

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Starla

Do you know how many people in America have multiple sclerosis and need expensive drugs that they will not be able to access through the market place?

The only drugs available right now is Copaxone and Rebif, but neurologists do not prescribe those as much anymore because they are older, and do not work as well.

My problem is common..... and if people with ms cannot get the care they need through the marketplace, they will go without it, especially if they cannot afford another plan outside of that.

still blaming the marketplace for this

what would occur without the marketplace

That's one example for you. I haven't even gotten into the cancer medications and experimental treatments no longer offered.

i'd love for you to get into cancer treatment and the ACA.

It's hurting people who can no longer afford their insurance premiums...

for the last time, how is this the ACA's fault and not the insurance industry

[Trotskilicious]

i mean seriously starla, what is the alternative? how has the marketplace made it "worse" than the pre-ACA status quo?

[Starla]

This wasn't about ME. It's about how it affects OTHERS. I'm giving my experience as an example for what MANY OTHERS are facing.

Social programs SUCK .... I want to see better for everyone. Even if the act is just a beginning, we have one hell of a long way to go to address all of the new problems created by it.

You're the one bringing politics in to this in regards to my posts, where all I have discussed is the problems with health care alone.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

absolutely

do you know how much you sound like a republican?

I'm not upset with this program because it doesn't benefit ME. Do you really think I'm a selfish person or what?

[Trotskilicious]

still haven't told me exactly how the ACA has created these problems for others, one of the things was that marketplace insurance doesn't provide coverage for certain drug treatment

on the other hand, if there was no ACA or the marketplace they wouldn't even have a fucking option AT ALL

[FutureBoy]

republican scum

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Starla

I'm not upset with this program because it doesn't benefit ME. Do you really think I'm a selfish person or what?

no, but you led with that example so i can't help but hammer on it

ultimately i think you are a leftist that cares about people, but you place the blame on the wrong culprits

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

still blaming the marketplace for this

what would occur without the marketplace



i'd love for you to get into cancer treatment and the ACA.



for the last time, how is this the ACA's fault and not the insurance industry

I'd like for you to do the research on your own, because anything I present here might come from info wars.

[Trotskilicious]

don't deny you dip into that pond from time to time

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by FutureBoy

the launch would be when the website opened, a fairly limited length of time. you can still shop, it will be around for years, that is not it's launch window. but thank you for playing order, please come again

Launch would be the first open enrollment period. Its like you define shit strictly to support you fox news argument

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

no, but you lead with that example so i can't help but hammer on it

ultimately i think you are a leftist that cares about people, but you place the blame on the wrong culprits

I think I place the blame on anyone responsible, from dems to repubs. I really wish politics wasn't involved in health care. It shouldn't be.

I think people who do not work in health care, don't understand how much this has hurt others, because they don't see the denials, and the programs/medicines/treatments/surgeries that medicaid or marketplace plans won't cover.

Ultimately, how will expanded medicaid stay afloat and will people get what they need. Those are my concerns....

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

don't deny you dip into that pond from time to time

I don't read info wars. Do you honestly take me as someone who believes everything I read? As much as I have joked on this forum about conspiracies... seriously?