Libertarians

[Bread Regal]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

There are libertarians, and then there are libertarians and then libertarians. There are republitarians. There are objectivists. There are libertarians. There are anarcho-libertarians. There are libertarian socialists. I could go on. Even socialism, which has come to have a similarly nonsensically broad definition, is still arguably more concise than libertarianism.

Critiquing 'libertarianism' is nonsensical, because the spectrum of ideas which intersect with libertarianism or are claimed by 'libertarians' is simply too broad. That is not to say that you can't intelligently critique aspects, ideas or groups within whatever 'libertarianism' is, but my experience has been that most people who want to broadly critique 'libertarianism' are usually doing so from some kind of pre-existing party line.

I would add that libertarianism in the United States right now is largely right wing and I think most American self-identified 'libertarians' probably came out of or moved into right-of-center thinking. In parts of Europe, however, libertarianism is an impulse which equally suits the left. England, for example, has a political party for the libertarian right (UKIP) and the libertarian left (Lib Dems).

Which one professes that taxation is slavery.

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by Bread Regal

Which one professes that taxation is slavery.

Some do. Some don't. Objectivists don't mind taxation. Anarcho capitalists do. Republitarians like it.ft-libertarians are divided on it. Friedman was happy with it.

[Elphenor]

They like tax systems that create horrible income inequality...

[Trotskilicious]

i think that maybe academic objectivists don't mind taxation because your run of the mill rand fan does

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

Some do. Some don't. Objectivists don't mind taxation. Anarcho capitalists do. Republitarians like it.ft-libertarians are divided on it. Friedman was happy with it.

Hey everyone, different people believe different stuff

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

Hey everyone, different people believe different stuff

It is significant that 'different people believe different stuff' if someone is trying to say that 'different people' are really one homogenous blob.

[Bread Regal]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

Some do. Some don't. Objectivists don't mind taxation. Anarcho capitalists do. Republitarians like it.ft-libertarians are divided on it. Friedman was happy with it.

i was being half-facetious because i remember seeing a picture of you wearing a shirt with that slogan on it several years it. it always comes to mind when people mention libertarianism.

you're right though. philosophies held by self-described libertarians have become so diverse that the word itself has become meaningless without some qualifier. and honestly, who doesn't want "liberty" to be the root word in the name of their political philosophy.

i think when most non-politically braindead people hear libertarianism, they think of anarcho-libertarianism, when in reality "libertarians" believe in a piece-meal combination of anarcho-libertarianism and the status quo, especially when it serves them specifically.

example: "libertarians" support vouchers because they are usually well-off enough financially to send their kids to private school, but don't want it to cost as much. school vouchers are totally useless to poor families because they wouldn't even come close to covering private school tuition, and it drains money from the public school system.

order 66 upthread said republicans call themselves libertarians out of embarrassment, and i think that is absolutely true. "The Big Tent" just has a new banner on it, but we all know it's the the "fuck you i got mine" party.

[Elphenor]

I feel like if you say "Libertarian" by itself you are referring to right wing thought without the religious hypocrisy.

Pretty much some sort of Ayn Randish thinking. So pointing out that there are multiple kinds is both obvious and uneeded.

Like if someone is talking about "Liberals" there are a lot of different kinds but it's still obvious to everyone what you're talking about

[Trotskilicious]

we can also talk about liberal conservative democrat republican and what they REALLY mean until the mark manginos come home but ultimately we're talking about the parlance of our times man

[Luke de Spa]

in my experience, self-identified "libertarians" are usually people white men who want the state to do nothing that doesn't directly benefit them

[Luke de Spa]

i once met a boomer libertarian. claimed he'd never used a single taxpayer dollar in his life. i asked him where he was born, went to school, how he gets around without using roads. that was a short conversation

[null123]

The fascinating part about (American) libertarianism to me is how it seems to rapidly lead to a mentality of American exceptionalism and constitution worship and NWO George-Washington-worshipped-the-devil skepticism of all forms of power and authority, in equal measure, often within the same person.

[Trotskilicious]

i know right? it's like how the GOP is the free market religious control state party

[Trotskilicious]

and how free market is a "conservative" value and economic controls are a "liberal" one

[Trotskilicious]

i feel like americans don't really understand how political theory works on a base level

this goes for the left, too. OH I WANT EVERYONE TO BE FREE TO DO ANYTHING THEY WANT BUT NO PLASTIC BAGS

[Trotskilicious]

plastic bag bans are another inconvenience to the poor, not environmental protection

besides i'm still getting plastic bags from food joints so what the fuck was the point. now i just have to pay a dollar to HEB because daft white people banned plastic bags and i don't remember to bring all that shit with me

[D.]

more like libretardians amirite

[Order 66]

i go through like 100 plastic bags and water bottles a day. i don't care that i'm a bad person

[Trotskilicious]

you live in houston, nobody there cares about the environment

[null123]

Here they charge 10 cents for paper bags and no plastic bags allowed. I'm slowwwly learned to remember to bring a bag. I also generate huge amounts of recycling from my bottled water habit although I do buy the 1.5L bottles

[MyOneAndOnly]

Wait. Order lives in Houston?

It makes sense now.

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by Charmbag

The fascinating part about (American) libertarianism to me is how it seems to rapidly lead to a mentality of American exceptionalism and constitution worship and NWO George-Washington-worshipped-the-devil skepticism of all forms of power and authority, in equal measure, often within the same person.

This

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by Bread Regal

i was being half-facetious because i remember seeing a picture of you wearing a shirt with that slogan on it several years it. it always comes to mind when people mention libertarianism.

I haven't owned that shirt for ten years and I haven't owned that view point for about four or five.

[Bread Regal]

i know but it's still funny.

[Bread Regal]

it gives me something to say when i'm trolling paul ryans facebook page

[Luke de Spa]

what's up with librarians anyway

[The Omega Concern]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

and how free market is a "conservative" value and economic controls are a "liberal" one

The current crop of pol's front those as monikers to fleece the sheeple. The essence of the philosophies are diffused when they become excuses for criminality, or as they say in D.C., 'extralegal'.

[Elphenor]

You are the definition of a sheep bro

[The Omega Concern]

No. I'm the anti-thesis of a sheep. I'm not following this argument as an example and not because I don't understand it has some academic merit. It does, just only in the glass houses of academia.

The way the world really works, y'all just circle jerking yourselves feeding into the false left-right paradigm aimed to divide and conquer. But hey, knock yourselves out as you follow each other round and round and round...bahahahhh!!!

[The Omega Concern]

Originally Posted by Bread Regal

example: "libertarians" support vouchers because they are usually well-off enough financially to send their kids to private school, but don't want it to cost as much. school vouchers are totally useless to poor families because they wouldn't even come close to covering private school tuition, and it drains money from the public school system.

order 66 upthread said republicans call themselves libertarians out of embarrassment, and i think that is absolutely true. "The Big Tent" just has a new banner on it, but we all know it's the the "fuck you i got mine" party.

It's dangerous to base that much belief on an assumption. Spouting off liberal platitudes does not an argument make.