New Billy Interview (circa spirits tour)

[Araneae]

Music-Illuminati.com | Chat: Billy Corgan

Jeff Moehlis: What advice would you give to an aspiring musician?

Billy Corgan: I don’t know, because in the old days it was just, get your shit together and tour, and now I think that’s a complete waste of time. I think if you go recording first, you know, you end up being sort of a victim to the pitchfork[.com] culture, of “you know, that’s really precious.” I think the lack of bands of great width and power says something about the ground level. When we came in at the ground level, we had to be able to play. And I don’t think that exists anymore, so I don’t know.

I mean, your first album could be hailed as a masterpiece, you can play, and there’s forty guys with beards [in the audience], but it’s not going to translate to Iowa.

JM: I’m from Iowa, by the way.

[laughter]

BC: That was always the Pumpkins’ thing. Yeah, things like The Strokes and bands like that, that might work in New York, but it doesn’t work in fucking Iowa. That’s the thing. You can’t really truly succeed in America. You see a lot of English bands that come and play New York, Philly, Detroit, Chicago, Denver, LA, they play like eight cities and then they get the fuck out. Because they can’t go through the heartland.

I think it’s really difficult. Honestly, I don’t know. I think, sometimes, well, if I was eighteen, what would I do?

I think at the end of the day, talent is always the great arbiter. Every system is different. But at the end of the day, it should be that the talented wins. Right now the mediocre seem to be winning. You know, the ones that… if everything’s niche, then you have to somebody who kind of basically attracts four niches to add your thing up. Or be really non-offensive. And I don’t know how you do rock and roll and be non-offensive. Coldplay mastered that [everyone laughs]. I think they’re really good, but I’m saying, they mastered the art of feeling a little dangerous without being dangerous at all.

JM: I asked Cris Kirkwood from the Meat Puppets the same question, and he was like, “Become a dentist. Look at what I did, and don’t do it.” So you have a slightly more optimistic answer, at least.

BC: At one point, they were signed to a major, weren’t they?

JM: Yeah, for a short time, and then [Cris] really got on the drugs.

BC: But even then, at least he was able to work with a system that gave him an opportunity. Now, the opportunities are so ephemeral. I remember reading this article about the band that had this super fast Guitar Hero song, DragonForce. I mean, like 30 million kids are trying to play this super fast song, and I’m reading articles about them, saying they’re the fastest band on the planet, but it doesn’t necessarily translate to …

unknown: sales?

BC: Well, it’s not about sales. Not to be too business-ey, but, why would you go to Wendy’s over McDonalds? Well, at some point you made a decision that it’s more consistent with what you want in terms of what
you want, plus quality. It’s a combo. And once you’re sold on that, unless you have three bad experiences, you keep going back.

For musical artists, the concept should be similar. But in those cases you’re not developing loyalty to the artist, you’re developing loyalty to a concept, or to a moment. Any business, if you can’t string together a series of moments, once they get bored with that moment, they’ll just go to someone else who’s faster, or funnier.

JM: Do you think albums are dead?

BC: Yeah. I think there’s a reason to have things collected. But if you really think about post-Sgt. Pepper, there was a good rosy period there of really strong records. What I’m saying is, I can’t think of one musical artist that put together a string of that level of quality of albums.

unknown: I thought Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness was a great album.

JM: OK, I’m not going to kiss ass here.

BC: The Wilco album [Yankee Hotel Foxtrot] is considered a great album. It will go down as a classic. But even then, again it didn’t reach… like, Dark Side of the Moon reached Iowa. Yankee Hotel Foxtrot did not necessarily reach Iowa. And that’s sort of my thing. It’s not that the mainstream American public has some sort of finger on the pulse. But the great works of art tend to bring people collectively together. So I’m really suspicious when things are successful [only] in their sub-genres. It’s not to take away from them artistically, but something’s getting lost in the translation. Either the systems aren’t there to get them translated, or it’s just become so niche driven, that a band can’t… in essence, they’re going to lose what they have to widen. And then, because there’s no loyalty there, it’s like, there’s just no translation.

[Pink] Floyd, over fifteen years, they were able to build 70,000 people willing to sit in a stadium to listen to them play fucking super-art rock, with an occasional hit song. You don’t see that [anymore]. Why, in thirty-plus years, has no one else perfected that? I mean, if you want to talk about artistic credibility, Radiohead had all the artistic credibility in the world to be able to do that, and yet, they’re not able to do that. And that’s nothing against them, it’s says something about the audience being no longer interested at that level, or they’re not able to draw the mainstream into the system.

unknown: What do you think is the next step for the music industry, in general? I mean, it seems to be pretty much in decline.

BC: Well, I think you have two music industries, now. The labels are essentially going to be catalogs, and sell another version of Sgt. Pepper’s, or whatever, and then you’ll still have kind of a segment that’s interacting with new things. But, I don’t think you’ll see [the old way of] business anymore. I just don’t see how that’s possible. No one’s going to invest the resources necessary to develop artists. So artists are only going to work if they’re able to navigate themselves through youtube, plus, you know, this bloggerland and this bloggerland. I think the chance of anyone getting through that is so small. I’m suspicious because every generation up until the late nineties or early 2000’s had basically produced ten to twenty great bands, that you can [snaps] reel off, you know? Like if you said alternative eighties, you’d be like New Order, and The Cure, and Depeche Mode, I mean you can go on. You don’t have to think really hard.

[BC asked to sign something.]

JM: Who are you going to listen to on the drive back to LA?

BC: Jethro Tull.

JM: Jethro Tull? Which album?

BC: Jethro Tull’s second album.

JM: Stand Up?

BC: That’s what’s on. Exactly.

[The next night, Corgan and the Spirits in the Sky cover "A New Day Yesterday," the lead track from Jethro Tull's Stand Up, at their Long Beach show.]

unknown: How are things different now, with youtube, and the blogs and all that? It’s not the same as it used to be. People can write shit the next day, you know?

BC: Think about the first show of a tour. Say you have a bad night, the reviews come out, the fans all go on there, whatever, and everyone says it sucks, by the time of the third show, the tour’s dead.

unknown: Most of the people didn’t think that it sucked, but the people who thought that it sucked are outspoken.

BC: But let’s look at it differently. Maybe rock and roll enjoyed an exemption that other forms of entertainment didn’t have. Because movies have had that same pressure, Broadway has had that same pressure, so maybe now rock and roll has grown up where it has the same pressure as Broadway. If you don’t hit it ground running from the first…

unknown: It shouldn’t be like that, though.

BC: But saying something shouldn’t be like it doesn’t make it so.

Maybe [rock] is past its maturation point and now it is strictly a business, and either it works or it doesn’t. Why do people go see fucking Cats, you know what I mean, still?

unknown: Because it’s amazing! [everyone laughs]

BC: But I’m saying, maybe if an album drops, or a band hits the road and that don’t get that immediate “this is awesome” reaction, then maybe it deserves to fucking go down in flames.

unknown: I think there’s so many critics out there….

BC: I know, but that’s what I’m saying. It seems counter-intuitive to artistic expression, but that’s the system. Look, you can all sit here and say all that, but you’re not going to go home and change it.

unknown: I’m sure that everyone here is going to go home and talk about how awesome this show was. So that’s going to change something, that’s going to change a little bit.

BC: That would be great. We call it a small fire, it’s a nice small fire. It may be that seventeen small fires eventually add up to something meaningful. But the thing is, you can’t tell me, no manager can tell me, no record executive can tell me what small fires to set, and what actually adds up to anything. And that’s the problem. This [mini-tour] might go down as super-legendary, like, “Oh my God, it was so awesome, you wish you were there,” and tickets will sell for a hundred dollars on eBay, blah, blah, blah, or it could down as, like, “What was that? They did what?”

unknown: So is the last of your shows, or are you going to be doing anything else?

BC: We might play one more show in October, possibly San Francisco area. It’s like part of a thingy, not our show, like a big bill of people.

JM: Are you planning to stay in LA longer?

BC: Hard to say.

unknown: [with something to sign for friend] Can you write, “I love you, Adrian,” or like, “Hi, Adrian”? She loves you!

BC: [declines] I’ve heard “I love you” before from women, and it never worked out. [everyone laughs] I’m going to go this way… [BC bails]

[Catherine Wheel]

He makes a good point about niches. Back when Pink Floyd were big you didn't have niches like you have now so perhaps it was easier in general to be a successful rock band.

[geek_xyu]

I get it now. Smashing Pumpkins is the Wendys of the music industry. That's why I keep getting finger's in my chili.

[Slurpee]

It's too bad Billy's sagacious take on the music industry does not (or cannot) influence his rather shitty evaluation of his own musical output.

[KManXC]

I skimmed but didn't see any mentions of Jebus. That's a win in my book.

[28if]

isn't the OP c_wilson?

also idk what Billy is listening to but I've heard a lot of really good new records recently, also, his music sucks.

[Araneae]

He mentions wanting bands to be "dangerous" but it's hard to hear what is so dangerous about his current musical output. I don't hate it, but it is not groundbreaking or as exciting to me anymore.

[Araneae]

Originally Posted by 28if

isn't the OP c_wilson?

what?

[DaveKShape]

i get tired of him bitching about the music industry. who the fuck cares. he needs to stop thinking about how his music fits into the industry, and just focus on his music. if he's so worried about the initial reaction of people - look at widow wake my mind. the initial reaction was generally "this song is awful" across the board. he's going down in flames.

[Araneae]

The fans didn't like widow much but the critics seem to like it. Apparently, with news of the approved merger of ticketmaster and livenation, Billy is a big supporter of the ticket merger. But that probably had to do more with Azoff being his manager and Billy standing to benefit from it. Billy can be really hypocritical at times, especially when it comes to the business. Which is a shame because he does have a lot of intelligent things to say about it.

[Catherine Wheel]

When he says dangerous I think he means being edgy and controversial like say his history of wearing dresses and gowns in music videos and when performing live

[redbull]

billy is a bigger idiot than i thought if he really thinks good album aren't still coming out

[Pizza Club]

Originally Posted by redbull

billy is a bigger idiot than i thought if he really thinks good album aren't still coming out

i don't think that's what he means.

[Slurpee]

Originally Posted by redbull

billy is a bigger idiot than i thought if he really thinks good album aren't still coming out

I think he means there is now no distinction being made between albums that are actually good and albums that are fulfilling a niche's need (see: Wavves, for the most egregious example). So none of it is getting through to the general public. Pretty hard to get Dirty Projectors on the radio when the same people who pimp it are trying to pretend Vivian Girls have talent.

[redbull]

like vivian girls get played on the radio anyways

[slunken]

What radio are we talking about?

[Phoenix Down]

He's right, but he's also part of the problem. It might be "dangerous" and brave to release crappy plastic pop for a band that was known for noisy hard rock and face melting guitar solos, but the new pumpkins are still less dangerous than coldplay and can fuck themselves.

[dustrock]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Down

He's right, but he's also part of the problem. It might be "dangerous" and brave to release crappy plastic pop for a band that was known for noisy hard rock and face melting guitar solos, but the new pumpkins are still less dangerous than coldplay and can fuck themselves.

don't know if I agree with the coldplay argument.

"Hey, we're almost as big as U2 was. All we need is to hook up with Brian Eno and Daniel Lanois for a couple of albums and then we'll be taken seriously!"


Theoretically, Billy should be quite "dangerous" right now in that he can write and release whatever the fuck he wants without any interference from an A & R man. That frees him creatively, and yet the danger for the fans is that he won't be writing and releasing any amazing songs.

No doubt the record industry has many problems, but I remember reading that the record label was like WTF? when Blur recorded Modern Life Is Rubbish, and asked Damon to write more radio-friendly songs, so he went and wrote For Tomorrow and Chemical World, 2 phenomenal songs that might not otherwise have been written.


And wasn't Billy's zenith as an artist when he was also trying to be successful commercially? Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie.

[tweedyburd]

How very easy it is for Billy to imply that his music transcended in a way that Wilco or Radiohead's music does not. He, whose band was swept up in a movement which had far greater power than the output of any one band. Do you think Heartland America would've instantly embraced that whiny voice had it not been for the enormous push from that movement and its easy assimilation into the mainstream culture and media of the time?

Of course, he also doesn't seem to understand that MTV doesn't play music anymore. It's a lot easier to reach that kid in Iowa when you're exposure rate is as high as Billy's was from 1993-1996. I don't think I've ever seen Wilco on MTV, or any thing like it.

I just think his analysis on this subject has always been self-serving and intellectually lazy. And it's almost like you can hear the subtext of jealousy when he mentions critically acclaimed bands like Radiohead.

[duovamp]

Originally Posted by tweedyburd

How very easy it is for Billy to imply that his transcended in a way that Wilco or Radiohead's music does not. He, whose band was swept up in a movement which had far greater power than the output of any one band. Do you think Heartland America would've instantly embraced that whiny voice had it not been for the enormous push from that movement and its easy assimilation into mainstream culture and media of the time?

Of course, he also doesn't seem to understand that MTV doesn't play music anymore. It's a lot easier to reach that kid in Iowa when you're exposure rate is as high as Billy's was from 1993-1996. I don't think I've ever seen Wilco on MTV, or any thing like it.

I just think his analysis on this subject has always been self-serving and intellectually lazy. And it's almost like you can hear the subtext of jealousy when he mentions critically acclaimed bands like Radiohead.

You sound like a fuck.

[Phoenix Down]

Originally Posted by dustrock

don't know if I agree with the coldplay argument.

Theoretically, Billy should be quite "dangerous" right now in that he can write and release whatever the fuck he wants without any interference from an A & R man.

exactly. of course i was exaggerating, but this is so ironic. he has total freedom and still he is more pop than he ever was.

[Shallowed]

He lost me after he started talking about comparing Dragonforce on Guitar Hero to McDonald's and Wendy's.

Everything else kind of breaks my heart. His output over the last few years has been largely awful, but he continues to try and justify it via know-it-all rants about the music industry and albums etc. :'(

[tweedyburd]

Originally Posted by duovamp

You sound like a .

I think you're on to something...

[nofix]

Too many facets of entertainment these days. Music is no longer as important as it used to be.

[srt4b]

STFU and make good music. that is all I ask Mr Bill. Everything else will fall into place if your product is top notch.

[Shallowed]

Did he bitch this much about the various industries during SD/MCIS?

[dustrock]

maybe there's too many media outlets for him to bitch at now lol

back in the day, you had to get like Rolling Stone or Spin or something to pay attention to you

[Eulogy]

he never said anything about his own music in this interview

he's allowed to have opinions about other things even if his most recent work has sucked. i didn't find anything too objectionable here.

[wHATcOLOR]

does anyone find "the music industry" an interesting topic? it seems like everyone loves to ask him about the music industry, all the time. who gives a shit. artists who are doing well, producing great stuff don't really go on and on about the music industry. they do their thing. it doesn't even seem like he's insisting upon talking about the music industry, people insist upon asking him

[SPLATTER]

So here's what he says:

1) SP was/is better than Radiohead, Coldplay and is pretty much the last big rock band that had genuine mass appeal and could play Iowa, the heartland, not just hipster culure

2) He's not getting recognized and achieving the success he should these days because those assholes on the internet ruin it for me. the ruined my anniversary tour, bastards.