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Old 03-29-2021, 08:07 AM   #31
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Old 03-29-2021, 08:29 AM   #32
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Old 03-29-2021, 09:05 AM   #33
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oh the therapy scenes in vieuphoria were satire

 
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Old 03-29-2021, 09:13 AM   #34
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Random-access memory.

 
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Old 03-29-2021, 09:14 AM   #35
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I'm no doctor, but I think we call this symptom "pressured speech."

Reprise, am I using that term right?

 
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Old 03-29-2021, 09:53 AM   #36
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Old 03-29-2021, 10:25 AM   #37
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i took what you said more like "you are what you are and ain't nothing that can really be done about it".

i guess we're inversely sort of on the same page. it's just additive vs. reductive.

but i don't think we are merely the sum of our decisions and experiences, at all. there's so much more to it than that. in the same way that one off night doesn't define an athlete. "You" are more than what happened to you and what your thoughts are. "You" are much more than whatever became embedded into you since infancy.

in that way, there is definitely something to "find", as you put it, in oneself.
I mean in a way, yes, you were born with DNA and an otherwise clean slate (sort of, stuff also happened in the womb) and became something different. But although one off night doesn't define an athlete, someone who has more off nights than on nights has to develop oneself to grow, not find something inside of them that already exists that will make them a great athlete. Maybe in little league they had some natural skill that worked enough to make them good at it, but their true self is not a great athlete just because they were at one time without having to work for it. They have potential where other people may not have as much potential, though, that is true.

I am curious what exactly you think "you" is if not your experiences and your biology. And if you're saying "you" is your biology, it's been changing since the second you've been born, and even before you were born. Is there some snapshot time that was the real "you"? Where does this essence or whatever come from if not consciousness?

I do think biology plays the greater role in many things than anything else, but I think saying biology is destiny is even shittier than saying there's some "you" you need to find that will unlock your potential. It implies these experiences changed you in a bad way, and you've been corrupted from the original you. Even if that's true, I don't see how someone can get back something like that or ever know what could have happened if not for x.

As someone with a dissociative disorder that messed with personality development, there are two schools of thought on this in the dissociative world. One is that there is an original you/true self that therapy is attempting to get back together to help functioning/meaning/lessen symptoms/etc. The other is that personality development happens over years (esp first 5-7 years) and that if it is messed up significantly in that time, there's no whole functioning "you" to get back, it's a matter of parts of self learning to work together as a personality structure. In other words, taking what is and growing from it instead of trying to put something together that never existed together in the first place. You can tell where I stand on that. And while it is sad and shitty, it's also realistic and helpful. When I first started with therapy I had someone in the former camp and didn't do nearly as well (although of course correlation is not causation).

Although we are not talking about the same thing here with Ram, I do think whatever potential a person had (good or bad) is not fully redeemable as an adult because you're not the person you were during the period of potential as you were before it. So you can't discount experiences/thoughts as not the real you because you can't reverse what happened.

Sorry I got off track there at the end but hopefully this makes sense.

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Old 03-29-2021, 10:26 AM   #38
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Old 03-29-2021, 10:31 AM   #39
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I'm no doctor, but I think we call this symptom "pressured speech."

Reprise, am I using that term right?
yes I think so, although it's hard to tell without actually hearing the speech. not an expert on bipolar symptoms though

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Old 03-29-2021, 11:21 AM   #40
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Old 03-29-2021, 11:25 AM   #41
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Old 03-29-2021, 03:37 PM   #42
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Old 03-29-2021, 03:40 PM   #43
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Old 03-29-2021, 03:40 PM   #44
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Old 03-29-2021, 04:13 PM   #45
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Old 03-29-2021, 05:03 PM   #46
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Old 03-29-2021, 05:16 PM   #47
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Old 03-29-2021, 05:18 PM   #48
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Old 03-29-2021, 06:02 PM   #49
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Old 03-29-2021, 06:04 PM   #50
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Old 03-29-2021, 06:15 PM   #51
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Old 03-29-2021, 06:17 PM   #52
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Old 03-29-2021, 06:22 PM   #53
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haha damn ram

go easy dude

 
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Old 03-29-2021, 06:23 PM   #54
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i am still not entirely sure what this thread is about congrats for your new band i think and sorry for uh , yes ?

 
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Old 03-29-2021, 07:27 PM   #55
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sorry i don't know any other way to handle happy feelings

 
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Old 03-30-2021, 02:15 AM   #56
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Old 03-30-2021, 04:07 AM   #57
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Old 03-30-2021, 04:10 AM   #58
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I mean in a way, yes, you were born with DNA and an otherwise clean slate (sort of, stuff also happened in the womb) and became something different. But although one off night doesn't define an athlete, someone who has more off nights than on nights has to develop oneself to grow, not find something inside of them that already exists that will make them a great athlete. Maybe in little league they had some natural skill that worked enough to make them good at it, but their true self is not a great athlete just because they were at one time without having to work for it. They have potential where other people may not have as much potential, though, that is true.

I am curious what exactly you think "you" is if not your experiences and your biology. And if you're saying "you" is your biology, it's been changing since the second you've been born, and even before you were born. Is there some snapshot time that was the real "you"? Where does this essence or whatever come from if not consciousness?
'you' are what is there to witness your thoughts, but not those thoughts.

i tried thinking about this, and if i had to choose a word for what i think the "real self" is, i think it would be Awareness. becoming aware of yourself, almost like the brain and the soul are two distinct entities. it's a little like a liberating sense of depersonalization - you are not your thoughts. you are there to witness your thoughts. if thoughts are the fish inside the water, you are the water.

like it's a symbiosis of physical/mental/spiritual faculties with an overlap, rather than being one primary, cast-iron "you".


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I do think biology plays the greater role in many things than anything else, but I think saying biology is destiny is even shittier than saying there's some "you" you need to find that will unlock your potential. It implies these experiences changed you in a bad way, and you've been corrupted from the original you. Even if that's true, I don't see how someone can get back something like that or ever know what could have happened if not for x.

As someone with a dissociative disorder that messed with personality development, there are two schools of thought on this in the dissociative world. One is that there is an original you/true self that therapy is attempting to get back together to help functioning/meaning/lessen symptoms/etc. The other is that personality development happens over years (esp first 5-7 years) and that if it is messed up significantly in that time, there's no whole functioning "you" to get back, it's a matter of parts of self learning to work together as a personality structure. In other words, taking what is and growing from it instead of trying to put something together that never existed together in the first place. You can tell where I stand on that. And while it is sad and shitty, it's also realistic and helpful. When I first started with therapy I had someone in the former camp and didn't do nearly as well (although of course correlation is not causation).

Although we are not talking about the same thing here with Ram, I do think whatever potential a person had (good or bad) is not fully redeemable as an adult because you're not the person you were during the period of potential as you were before it. So you can't discount experiences/thoughts as not the real you because you can't reverse what happened.

Sorry I got off track there at the end but hopefully this makes sense.

you are speaking in terms of absolute, raw potential: one is born with X amount of potential, but certain experiences can gravely chip away at that, and then one will never have fulfilled their "full potential". to me that is a fully hypothetical concept. yes, cutting from the fabric of pure potential is reductionist by nature. and yeah, we can definitely experience fucked up shit that can aberrates us severely, and to a degree, irreversibly. but if you perpetually see yourself as damaged and unfulfilled raw potential, you are ultimately looking at yourself through a cruel and unrealistic frame of reference.

to me the idea of fulfilling your potential is rooted in the present, any present - how well are you able to apply yourself fully, to anything? what choices and decisions are you make at every moment and every turn of your life Now? are you run by automatic hardwired habits, or do you make choices consciously?

humanity is very arrogant about itself and how intelligent we think we are, but ultimately i think it's crucial to remember that our animal brains are in a perpetual state of scanning the outside world in search of undesirable stimuli, so that we can always be kept safe and leery of incoming threats. and that mechanism relies on your objective experiences, the fear of pain repeating itself. but once you let that primitive mechanism of survival run you, you are totally at its mercy.


AS YOU CAN SEE I HAD A LOT OF TIME TO THINK

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Old 03-30-2021, 04:19 AM   #59
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Old 03-30-2021, 10:10 AM   #60
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Although we are not talking about the same thing here with Ram, I do think whatever potential a person had (good or bad) is not fully redeemable as an adult because you're not the person you were during the period of potential as you were before it. So you can't discount experiences/thoughts as not the real you because you can't reverse what happened.

Sorry I got off track there at the end but hopefully this makes sense.

and about this, it's not that i'm discounting the power our experiences (particularly subtractive and destructive ones for the sake of this discussion) have on shaping who we become. but i'm saying, when you foster awareness of how you choose to form and address your own thoughts, THEN you are being "the real you".

"the real you" isn't an idealized notion of yourself that only exists in flawless, unattainable realms. it's the way you choose to look at things, and the way you choose how to readjust yourself when you realize your own inclinations and patterns, whatever they may be.

 
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