Sequel to Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness and Machina (33-song album) - Page 15

Greatvegetable · 04-08-2021, 06:13 AM

It's a weird argument because MCIS had more variety and power than all the post Zeitgeist albums put together, probably because it went to the extremes, which none of the post 2007 music has. I say 2007 because although Zeitgeist is much derided, I still think it has the power and conviction of an SP album.

So, when people talk about going back to MCIS style, what do they mean? It's tough to find five songs on that album that sound like they were written with one project in mind. That's what I love about double albums - they often throw the stylistic element out of the window. Can he do that convincingly with another one? I doubt it.

So, I think the question is will he ever make ambitious music with an expansive variety of extreme elements (and that includes extreme heaviness, extreme beauty, extreme delicacy, extreme wildness) again?

TheAlter · 04-08-2021, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1

why is everyone who's making this claim oblivious to the fact that he unsuccessfully tried already?

a song like Quasar is a clear example of trying to bring back the SD rawr

AMEN

And Doomsday fucking Clock? United Statez? Solara?

If he were able to write another Cherub or Bullet or 1979 he would do it in a heartbeat.

incubator · 04-08-2021, 07:07 AM

He's going to take the sweet outside with this MCIS sequel. You'll see.

TheAlter · 04-08-2021, 07:42 AM

Can't wait! Think about all the dry-ass metal riffs and factory preset synth sounds he's going to cram into a 33-song opus magnum.

VoxUpDoc · 04-08-2021, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Art Rioter

Oceania was the deep dive revisit of some old school Pumpkins tropes. Looking back it was pretty successful compared to what came after but I'd bet Corgan would think it didn't work to push the band to the levels of the 90s

There were no singles on it! None!

A few ok hooks later on in the album but the first half of Oceania is forgettable bottom-tier Pumpkins.

incubator · 04-08-2021, 08:52 AM

that was on purpose it was an absolutely groundbreaking full album experience.

VoxUpDoc · 09:57 AM

I mean he'd just recorded Tom, Tom, Owata etc. Nobody heard them because they part of the Teargarden project, and their production was crappy.

But scrub them up and they'd have made a stronger first half than... I can't even remember the tracks from the first half of Oceania honestly... One Candle One Fart, The Celestials... whatever Zzz.

Yes, those Teargarden tracks are better songs than most of Oceania, they were just produced in the worst possible way.

VoxUpDoc · 10:15 AM

If you were sat on the material for Oceania... something like this would've been more commercially viable (pretending for a second the TG tracks were re-recorded).

Teargarden (Theme)
Panopticon
Freak
Tom Tom
My Love Is Winter
Owata
The Chimera
Pinwheels
Oceania
Pale Horse
Glissandra
Inkless
Spangled (Hidden track: Cottonwood Symphony)

Quasar is fucking terrible, replaced with Teargarden theme out of disrespect.

incubator · 04-08-2021, 10:11 AM

Something like this would've been more commercially viable:

Produced by Jack Antonoff
Beautiful woman on the cover instead of a tower that contains such fragile beauty
Same songs but played slower and 2 steps down
WPC sings like Roger Miret of Agnostic Front fame
Put a banging donk on it

VoxUpDoc · 04-08-2021, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by incubator

Something like this would've been more commercially viable:

Produced by Jack Antonoff
Beautiful woman on the cover instead of a tower that contains such fragile beauty
Same songs but played slower and 2 steps down
WPC sings like Roger Miret of Agnostic Front fame
Put a banging donk on it

Triple platinum.

incubator · 04-08-2021, 10:15 AM

Cyr could also be improved by having Roger Miret do all of the vocals and changing the lyrics to cover typical Roger Miret topics like living for the scene, dying for the scene, defending the scene and being betrayed by people within the scene.

eviltimeban · 04-08-2021, 11:53 AM

Oceania would've been better with Jimmy on drums (clearly) and a little bit of trimming. Like, we didn't really need One Diamond One Heart. But on a recent listen I was surprised as to the quality of tracks like Pale Horse, especially in comparison with the more recent albums.

SD existed because at that time that was a sound - shoegaze / grunge / 70s rock all went into the stew. He just took elements from Catherine, MBV, Zeppelin, Queen, and heavy metal, sang like a girl and gave the songs weird one-word titles. But that was a very 90s thing anyway.

This 33 track album could be anything, but I doubt we're getting another Cyr. I'd say what we'll get is something more like Teargarden, but with Jimmy on drums.

incubator · 04-08-2021, 12:18 PM

He said recently on Later...With Jools Holland (uk people can catch it on iplayer) that they set "a marker" in the 90s and then gave everyone 20 or so years to catch up. Now he's heard some contemporary acts that have caught up (he named Ohhms, The Microdance, Guilty Parents and some others) he's going to set another market but this time he's "extremely confident" that'll take way more than 20 years for anyone to catch up. He described it as "SP plus plus".

VoxUpDoc · 04-08-2021, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by incubator

He said recently on Later...With Jools Holland (uk people can catch it on iplayer) that they set "a marker" in the 90s and then gave everyone 20 or so years to catch up. Now he's heard some contemporary acts that have caught up (he named Ohhms, The Microdance, Guilty Parents and some others) he's going to set another market but this time he's "extremely confident" that'll take way more than 20 years for anyone to catch up. He described it as "SP plus plus".

Not actually a recent episode I take it?

TheAlter · 04-08-2021, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eviltimeban

SD existed because at that time that was a sound - shoegaze / grunge / 70s rock all went into the stew. He just took elements from Catherine, MBV, Zeppelin, Queen, and heavy metal, sang like a girl and gave the songs weird one-word titles. But that was a very 90s thing anyway.

Had it been so easy, everyone would have done it.

A lot of it was a product of pure, young, unfiltered talent, sensibility and luck. The moment he started overthinking, everything went to shit. The fucking gowns...

jimmy drevpile · 04-08-2021, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by incubator

He said recently on Later...With Jools Holland (uk people can catch it on iplayer) that they set "a marker" in the 90s and then gave everyone 20 or so years to catch up. Now he's heard some contemporary acts that have caught up (he named Ohhms, The Microdance, Guilty Parents and some others) he's going to set another market but this time he's "extremely confident" that'll take way more than 20 years for anyone to catch up. He described it as "SP plus plus".

Link? Recently... (?)

Greatvegetable · 04-08-2021, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by incubator

He said recently on Later...With Jools Holland (uk people can catch it on iplayer) that they set "a marker" in the 90s and then gave everyone 20 or so years to catch up. Now he's heard some contemporary acts that have caught up (he named Ohhms, The Microdance, Guilty Parents and some others) he's going to set another market but this time he's "extremely confident" that'll take way more than 20 years for anyone to catch up. He described it as "SP plus plus".

I can guarantee with utmost certainty that he's never heard The Microdance and even if he had, he'd hate it with spiteful venom!

TheAlter · 04-08-2021, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greatvegetable

I can guarantee with utmost certainty that he's never heard The Microdance and even if he had, he'd hate it with spiteful venom!

Of course he’d be upset. Track #2 off your album is basically a rip-off of Mouths of Babes!

Greatvegetable · 04-08-2021, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAlter

Of course he’d be upset. Track #2 off your album is basically a rip-off of Mouths of Babes!

Oh yeah, those mellow verses, female vocals and shoegazy/new wavey outro. Almost identical.

Thanks for listening though, really appreciate that. X

VoxUpDoc · 04-08-2021, 05:09 PM

Can’t believe I’ve been visiting a Microdance forum for 20 years.

Greatvegetable · 04-08-2021, 05:16 PM

Anyway, I'm going to shush my beak, lest I get banned forever. Carry on with the abuse and I'll just lurk.

Although, I should imagine without me going on, my band would be beneath all of your levels of interest.

TheAlter · 04-08-2021, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greatvegetable

Anyway, I'm going to shush my beak, lest I get banned forever. Carry on with the abuse and I'll just lurk.

Although, I should imagine without me going on, my band would be beneath all of your levels of interest.

The main riff is pretty similar, c’mon. Anyway my bad, this is not the right thread for microdance critique, I reckon.

Greatvegetable · 04-08-2021, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAlter

The main riff is pretty similar, c’mon. Anyway my bad, this is not the right thread for microdance critique, I reckon.

Hadn't listened to that song for probably 10 years when I wrote it. Definitely not intentional!

Anyway... Shhhh.

slunken · 04-08-2021, 07:49 PM

Cyr would be much more interesting if the lyrics weren't absolute garbage.

slunken · 04-08-2021, 07:50 PM

I bet in this sequel we're going to songs with titles like "Let's Go (To The Rock Show)"

slunken · 04-08-2021, 07:50 PM

and there are going to be little references like "i bought my ticket for a ride" I bet you a thousand dollars

slunken · 04-08-2021, 07:51 PM

it's going to be so lame

Ram27 · 04-08-2021, 08:46 PM

the circus costs five pence
don't you guys hate mike pence

slunken · 04-08-2021, 10:04 PM

"it was supposed to be my daydream but it was my mistake" *GIANT WINK*

UGH

slunken · 04-08-2021, 10:06 PM

"the world is a radio"

04-08-2021, 09:10 AM	#427
VoxUpDoc Apocalyptic Poster Posts: 2,354	I mean he'd just recorded Tom, Tom, Owata etc. Nobody heard them because they part of the Teargarden project, and their production was crappy. But scrub them up and they'd have made a stronger first half than... I can't even remember the tracks from the first half of Oceania honestly... One Candle One Fart, The Celestials... whatever Zzz. Yes, those Teargarden tracks are better songs than most of Oceania, they were just produced in the worst possible way. Last edited by VoxUpDoc : 04-08-2021 at 09:57 AM.

04-08-2021, 09:54 AM	#428
VoxUpDoc Apocalyptic Poster Posts: 2,354	If you were sat on the material for Oceania... something like this would've been more commercially viable (pretending for a second the TG tracks were re-recorded). Teargarden (Theme) Panopticon Freak Tom Tom My Love Is Winter Owata The Chimera Pinwheels Oceania Pale Horse Glissandra Inkless Spangled (Hidden track: Cottonwood Symphony) Quasar is fucking terrible, replaced with Teargarden theme out of disrespect. Last edited by VoxUpDoc : 04-08-2021 at 10:15 AM.

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04-08-2021, 06:13 AM	#421
Greatvegetable Ownz Posts: 981	It's a weird argument because MCIS had more variety and power than all the post Zeitgeist albums put together, probably because it went to the extremes, which none of the post 2007 music has. I say 2007 because although Zeitgeist is much derided, I still think it has the power and conviction of an SP album. So, when people talk about going back to MCIS style, what do they mean? It's tough to find five songs on that album that sound like they were written with one project in mind. That's what I love about double albums - they often throw the stylistic element out of the window. Can he do that convincingly with another one? I doubt it. So, I think the question is will he ever make ambitious music with an expansive variety of extreme elements (and that includes extreme heaviness, extreme beauty, extreme delicacy, extreme wildness) again?

04-08-2021, 07:07 AM	#423
incubator Ownz Posts: 963	He's going to take the sweet outside with this MCIS sequel. You'll see.

04-08-2021, 07:42 AM	#424
TheAlter Demi-God Posts: 321	Can't wait! Think about all the dry-ass metal riffs and factory preset synth sounds he's going to cram into a 33-song opus magnum.

04-08-2021, 08:52 AM	#426
incubator Ownz Posts: 963	that was on purpose it was an absolutely groundbreaking full album experience.

04-08-2021, 10:11 AM	#429
incubator Ownz Posts: 963	Something like this would've been more commercially viable: Produced by Jack Antonoff Beautiful woman on the cover instead of a tower that contains such fragile beauty Same songs but played slower and 2 steps down WPC sings like Roger Miret of Agnostic Front fame Put a banging donk on it

04-08-2021, 10:15 AM	#431
incubator Ownz Posts: 963	Cyr could also be improved by having Roger Miret do all of the vocals and changing the lyrics to cover typical Roger Miret topics like living for the scene, dying for the scene, defending the scene and being betrayed by people within the scene.

04-08-2021, 11:53 AM	#432
eviltimeban Ownz Posts: 907	Oceania would've been better with Jimmy on drums (clearly) and a little bit of trimming. Like, we didn't really need One Diamond One Heart. But on a recent listen I was surprised as to the quality of tracks like Pale Horse, especially in comparison with the more recent albums. SD existed because at that time that was a sound - shoegaze / grunge / 70s rock all went into the stew. He just took elements from Catherine, MBV, Zeppelin, Queen, and heavy metal, sang like a girl and gave the songs weird one-word titles. But that was a very 90s thing anyway. This 33 track album could be anything, but I doubt we're getting another Cyr. I'd say what we'll get is something more like Teargarden, but with Jimmy on drums.

04-08-2021, 12:18 PM	#433
incubator Ownz Posts: 963	He said recently on Later...With Jools Holland (uk people can catch it on iplayer) that they set "a marker" in the 90s and then gave everyone 20 or so years to catch up. Now he's heard some contemporary acts that have caught up (he named Ohhms, The Microdance, Guilty Parents and some others) he's going to set another market but this time he's "extremely confident" that'll take way more than 20 years for anyone to catch up. He described it as "SP plus plus".

04-08-2021, 05:09 PM	#440
VoxUpDoc Apocalyptic Poster Posts: 2,354	Can’t believe I’ve been visiting a Microdance forum for 20 years.

04-08-2021, 05:16 PM	#441
Greatvegetable Ownz Posts: 981	Anyway, I'm going to shush my beak, lest I get banned forever. Carry on with the abuse and I'll just lurk. Although, I should imagine without me going on, my band would be beneath all of your levels of interest.

04-08-2021, 07:49 PM	#444
slunken Virgo Posts: 40,095	Cyr would be much more interesting if the lyrics weren't absolute garbage.

04-08-2021, 07:50 PM	#445
slunken Virgo Posts: 40,095	I bet in this sequel we're going to songs with titles like "Let's Go (To The Rock Show)"

04-08-2021, 07:50 PM	#446
slunken Virgo Posts: 40,095	and there are going to be little references like "i bought my ticket for a ride" I bet you a thousand dollars

04-08-2021, 07:51 PM	#447
slunken Virgo Posts: 40,095	it's going to be so lame

04-08-2021, 08:46 PM	#448
Ram27 dumb Location: corgan cult Posts: 8,744	the circus costs five pence don't you guys hate mike pence

04-08-2021, 10:04 PM	#449
slunken Virgo Posts: 40,095	"it was supposed to be my daydream but it was my mistake" GIANT WINK UGH

04-08-2021, 10:06 PM	#450
slunken Virgo Posts: 40,095	"the world is a radio"