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Old 11-24-2006, 10:27 PM   #1
the_marked
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Default This might sound a little weird, but Re: Hummer

If anyone here has ever read and analyzed John Stuart Mills "Utilitarianism" essay...it is basically the song Hummer.

The essay argues that people go through different phases of happiness, and that higher degrees of happiness are better for you, but also require some sort of pain upon yourself. People who reach their happiest states because of more intellectual realsons are actually less content than those who take happiness in insignificant things, because they realize the limitations on life, but it's better to be a human that is unsatisfied with life than it is to be a pig that is satisfied (because they have this dreamy little picture of life, they're blissfully ignorant of the realities).

I know most of you probably won't care , but as I sat through my political theory course that came to mind, and maybe some of you will find it of some interest...though I doubt Billy was thinking of Mill while he was doing acid and writing Hummer.

Last edited by the_marked : 11-24-2006 at 10:39 PM.

 
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Old 11-24-2006, 10:50 PM   #2
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but did you get head

 
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Old 11-25-2006, 06:20 AM   #3
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i think you read too deeply into the song, t_m.

have you met our ernest chum catherine wheel?

 
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Old 11-25-2006, 07:47 AM   #4
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Interesting read that, ive read some things along the lines while doing philosophy that branced to physchology.
In this song its got other themes that point to an overall feel that he is entrenched in his ways. But it comes off as more scared of being happy and unrelenting analyzation of whats right to do/feel.
The way you had written that his song relates to the piece you read would make it seem intentional. I find that highly unlikely, i think its more just Billy's life experience affecting his judgement and an honest statement of uncertainty.

 
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Old 11-25-2006, 08:43 AM   #5
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i have read John Stuart Mills "Utilitarianism" essay but neglected to analyze it.

 
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Old 11-25-2006, 09:41 AM   #6
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no one care

 
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Old 11-25-2006, 09:49 AM   #7
ChrisChiasson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_marked
If anyone here has ever read and analyzed John Stuart Mills "Utilitarianism" essay...it is basically the song Hummer.

The essay argues that people go through different phases of happiness, and that higher degrees of happiness are better for you, but also require some sort of pain upon yourself. People who reach their happiest states because of more intellectual realsons are actually less content than those who take happiness in insignificant things, because they realize the limitations on life, but it's better to be a human that is unsatisfied with life than it is to be a pig that is satisfied (because they have this dreamy little picture of life, they're blissfully ignorant of the realities).

I know most of you probably won't care , but as I sat through my political theory course that came to mind, and maybe some of you will find it of some interest...though I doubt Billy was thinking of Mill while he was doing acid and writing Hummer.
Didn't BC say he was going to be a political science major in college?

 
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Old 11-25-2006, 04:19 PM   #8
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I think it should be pointed out that only a small part of the essay deals with higher and lower pleasures in an attempt to take the edge off hedonistic interpretations of Utilitarianism.

And i really dont see Hummer as an analogue to the essay. Im assuming that you are interpreting 'the ways of sin' as base pleasures ( consider also that there are many complex and intellectually rewarding ways to sin ), but i see no indication that he's moving onto anything more enriching, hell it reads like he's just kicking his heels in misery.

 
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Old 11-25-2006, 04:34 PM   #9
teh b0lly!!1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzle
i think you read too deeply into the song, t_m.
i never thought i'd hear you say that, isle

 
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Old 11-25-2006, 04:40 PM   #10
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but did you get head?

 
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Old 11-25-2006, 04:41 PM   #11
Isle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1
i never thought i'd hear you say that, isle

oh shit you're right.

hey check me out!!

 
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Old 11-25-2006, 04:52 PM   #12
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so what's the difference between isle and izzle?

 
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Old 11-25-2006, 05:57 PM   #13
the_marked
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlasgowKiss
I think it should be pointed out that only a small part of the essay deals with higher and lower pleasures in an attempt to take the edge off hedonistic interpretations of Utilitarianism.

And i really dont see Hummer as an analogue to the essay. Im assuming that you are interpreting 'the ways of sin' as base pleasures ( consider also that there are many complex and intellectually rewarding ways to sin ), but i see no indication that he's moving onto anything more enriching, hell it reads like he's just kicking his heels in misery.
True...again, I never really thought Billy had the essay in mind when writing Hummer. What I am arguing is the basic idea behind Hummer - that life is not meant for those who are happy all the time, and the truly informed will actually be less content (but overall more satisfied) than those who are 'blissfully ignorant' because they realize the limitations on life - is identical to part of Mill's argument in Part 1 of Utilitarianism.

I'm not alluding to 'ways of sin' at all...the basic definition of utilitarianism from Bentham is that we should achieve the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people...so if some people are happy playing Tetris, and some are happy listening to Mozart, so be it...as long as they are happy. Mill deviates from this, and would argue that those playing Tetris are not going to be as happy as those listening to Mozart (presumably because Mill was raised and bred to be an intellectual, and there is no evidence that he ever experienced simple pleasures in life - booze/partying/sex/intellectually devoid activites). The problem with these high levels of happiness is that it makes a person less content as they realize how little they can do in life. That is what I am comparing to Hummer.

k i'm going to get a life now...

 
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Old 11-25-2006, 06:07 PM   #14
Isle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyfritters
so what's the difference between isle and izzle?
well in april / may 06 i asked pakula to ban me (isle) because phoria was distracting me from studying for exams. but, weak spirit that i am, i straight back on under the Izzle moniker. but now i'm back. i missed my orange stars. almost 20k!

 
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Old 11-25-2006, 06:19 PM   #15
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interesting story!

 
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Old 11-25-2006, 09:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_marked
True...again, I never really thought Billy had the essay in mind when writing Hummer. What I am arguing is the basic idea behind Hummer - that life is not meant for those who are happy all the time, and the truly informed will actually be less content (but overall more satisfied) than those who are 'blissfully ignorant' because they realize the limitations on life - is identical to part of Mill's argument in Part 1 of Utilitarianism.

I'm not alluding to 'ways of sin' at all...the basic definition of utilitarianism from Bentham is that we should achieve the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people...so if some people are happy playing Tetris, and some are happy listening to Mozart, so be it...as long as they are happy. Mill deviates from this, and would argue that those playing Tetris are not going to be as happy as those listening to Mozart (presumably because Mill was raised and bred to be an intellectual, and there is no evidence that he ever experienced simple pleasures in life - booze/partying/sex/intellectually devoid activites). The problem with these high levels of happiness is that it makes a person less content as they realize how little they can do in life. That is what I am comparing to Hummer.

k i'm going to get a life now...
So, its this verse you chiefly refer to?

Happiness will make you wonder
Will I feel OK?
It scares the disenchanted
Far away

I see where you are coming from, i would only say that perhaps he was referring to dips down to baser delights like drugs and alcohol, or other base contentments like being in a warm cosy bed with a lover, and the fear of returning to normality.

Billy Corgan you're terrible unclear with your ideas. Fuck you.

 
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Old 11-25-2006, 10:31 PM   #17
e10sc
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Not to mention, "Life's a bummer when you're a hummer"
I've always read that as meaning that life sucks when you're a person who's easily satisfied. It sucks to be someone who is content humming instead of someone who goes out and will sing. Or something.

 
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Old 11-26-2006, 04:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisChiasson
Didn't BC say he was going to be a political science major in college?
Law I thought.

 
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Old 11-26-2006, 04:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e10sc
Not to mention, "Life's a bummer when you're a hummer"
I've always read that as meaning that life sucks when you're a person who's easily satisfied. It sucks to be someone who is content humming instead of someone who goes out and will sing. Or something.
I always thought it was about how it sucks when you smell really bad and nobody wants to go near you.

 
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Old 11-26-2006, 04:37 PM   #20
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...

Last edited by smashingjj : 11-26-2006 at 04:37 PM. Reason: cgxcvgx

 
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Old 11-26-2006, 08:42 PM   #21
e10sc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccririck
I always thought it was about how it sucks when you smell really bad and nobody wants to go near you.
My interpretation wins

 
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