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01-28-2008, 07:48 PM | #1 | ||||
Master of Karate and Friendship
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Universal Healthcare is Wonderful and Will Ensure Better Health care for everyone
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/ma...dex/nhs127.xml
Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors By Laura Donnelly, Health Correspondent Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 27/01/2008 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/styleshee...rview/form.gif Have your say http://www.telegraph.co.uk/styleshee...w/comments.gif Read comments Doctors are calling for NHS treatment to be withheld from patients who are too old or who lead unhealthy lives.
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01-28-2008, 07:50 PM | #2 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,785
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Whatev. Every system has its detractors. So some doctors have an opinion. Doesn't change the fact that NHS is still a hundred times better than the clusterfuck of human suffering and corporate corruption that we have here in the States.
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01-28-2008, 07:52 PM | #3 |
Banned
Location: i'm from japan also hollywood
Posts: 57,805
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Don't American health insurance companies already do this
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01-28-2008, 07:53 PM | #4 | |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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And what do you mean every system has detractors? We're talking about forcing people to pay via taxes for a system that only protects the very healthy. |
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01-28-2008, 07:53 PM | #5 |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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01-28-2008, 07:58 PM | #6 |
Banned
Location: i'm from japan also hollywood
Posts: 57,805
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it still amounts to not being treated.
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01-28-2008, 08:02 PM | #7 |
Immortal
Posts: 20,964
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Just my two cents.
We have universal healthcare, and it "works". Of course the system has its flaws, the health insurance funds are short of money most of the time and people sometimes have to wait a bit before they can undergo surgeries which aren't immediately necessary, but hey - that's still better than a system where so many people don't even wanna go to the doctor because they simply can't afford it.
In short: The US way of big insurance companies virtually deciding over life and death is inhuman. |
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01-28-2008, 08:02 PM | #8 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,785
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Well first of all, most of the shit you bolded are just opinions of some doctors. But secondly, and most importantly, they said that 1 in 10 hospitals deny SOME treatments to obese and smoking patients. Seems like a much better way to ration treatment that someone's ability to pay. I mean, my health insurance is great and paid in full by my employer, and that's great for me, but a lot of people I know who take care of themselves way better than I do aren't that lucky.
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01-28-2008, 08:04 PM | #9 |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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01-28-2008, 08:06 PM | #10 | |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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01-28-2008, 08:18 PM | #11 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,785
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I'd say the "fantasy world" is the one where we're expecting mega-corporations to be benevolent enough to not try to, for example, fuck me out of coverage if I need major surgery and need to exercise my insurance policy. |
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01-28-2008, 08:31 PM | #12 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 7,240
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Because as we all know, no one in America ever has surgery.
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01-28-2008, 08:51 PM | #13 |
Immortal
Posts: 20,964
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Wow.
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01-28-2008, 09:05 PM | #14 |
$ W▲ G
Posts: 6,576
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isn't it just?
i am continually amazed and alarmed at the idea that there is no public health care system in the united states i just take it for granted that part of the taxes i contribute are used to maintain a public health system here. if something unexpected and horrible were to happen, i have peace of mind that i won't be battling insurance companies and banks to get treatment. |
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01-28-2008, 09:14 PM | #15 |
Immortal
Posts: 20,964
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The only argument I am able to understand is that they don't want higher taxes [duh], but everything else is beyond me.
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01-28-2008, 09:31 PM | #16 | |
$ W▲ G
Posts: 6,576
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i think the best way forward is to have a mix of public/private options - so keep your public system in place and allow universal access, especially for chronic-acute emergency. then allow for private insurances and services to establish themselves and take the burden off the public system by focusing on para-medical services (dental, optical, physical therapy) and elective procedures the government can reward those who take out private insurance by offering a rebate based on premium/level of plan and age. thereby the government contribution is seen as delivering a saving to the group of people who are paying for their own insurances blah blah blah as well as reducing the burden on the public system |
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01-28-2008, 09:37 PM | #17 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 7,240
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I'd rather battle an insurance company than the government. At least when your insurance company fucks you over, you can always switch to another one.
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01-28-2008, 09:49 PM | #18 |
Immortal
Posts: 20,964
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Yeah, but why would you have to battle the government when it's paying for everything, anyway?
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01-28-2008, 09:57 PM | #19 |
$ W▲ G
Posts: 6,576
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and for those that cannot afford to play the company game? what becomes of them?
biggest group we are talking about here is the elderly |
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01-28-2008, 09:58 PM | #20 | |
$ W▲ G
Posts: 6,576
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if you're fucked up - under a public health system you will get treatment the time taken to receive the treatment is the biggest point of failure in a public system |
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01-28-2008, 10:04 PM | #21 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 7,240
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Who says they're paying for everything? Trying to get the US government to pay for the health care related things they're already obligated to pay for (Medicare and things of that nature) is like pulling teeth as it is, what with all the ridiculous amount of red tape and all. I don't see how the government is going to somehow get less tight fisted and easier to deal with when they're in charge of everything. I think it's really naive to think that the government is going to be any more willing to write a big check for a medically questionable procedure than an insurance company would be.
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01-28-2008, 10:08 PM | #22 | |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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Also it's not just the taxes, it's that anything we let the government run is shit. Everything. You want hospitals that work like the DMV, by all means, let the government run them. |
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01-28-2008, 10:10 PM | #23 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,785
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01-28-2008, 10:14 PM | #24 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,785
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Can't really argue with that. |
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01-28-2008, 10:15 PM | #25 |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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01-28-2008, 10:15 PM | #26 |
The Man of Tomorrow
Posts: 26,965
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i agree with everything said in this thread by everyone except nim and corg. ill come back and read it later.
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01-28-2008, 10:17 PM | #27 | |
$ W▲ G
Posts: 6,576
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Corganist you could look at examples from outside the United States to understand how a public health system works, and how it fails. |
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01-28-2008, 10:20 PM | #28 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,785
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Now you're just being petty. I didn't say that. And I reiterate, some doctors have an opinion that certain people are a lost cause and a waste of resources. This happens in the US Free-market Fuck-you Corporate health care system too. I don't understand how this is any sort of argument against socialized medicine.
From the article: "One in three said that elderly patients should not be given free treatment if it were unlikely to do them good for long." This is an opinion of not even the majority of doctors in the system, and even still, they have to treat whatever the gov't says they have to treat, so fuck their personal opinion. This is no failing in the public health care system. |
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01-28-2008, 10:21 PM | #29 | |
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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01-28-2008, 10:23 PM | #30 | ||
Master of Karate and Friendship
Location: in your butt
Posts: 72,975
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