Jeff vs. James - Page 2

Shallowed · 01-25-2014, 02:22 AM

See there was that thing on Vieuphoria in the therapy session thing, but I thought that was all a joke, I mean James said he was bothered by his bandmates' shoes ferchrissake

slunken · 01-25-2014, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juliana

Billy gave them that room so they could do things on their own. I think Billy wanted to figure out a way to make James happy and not compromise the album. But only as much as a billy could.

Yea I totally agree that part of that arrangement was billy's "concession"

HereIsNoWhy4U · 01-25-2014, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slunken

There's a quote from yet another guitar magazine where Corgan says, regarding one of the first times he got together with James, that James had a song and Corgan fucked with it so hard and rode James about it that James left and he didn't hear from him for about 3 months. BC thought he pissed him off for good that early on.

I think this set the tone for "don't mess w/ james' songs at all and subsequently don't care about t**** further down the line

Yep, this happened during '87, the drum machine days.

panda show · 01-25-2014, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shallowed

See there was that thing on Vieuphoria in the therapy session thing, but I thought that was all a joke, I mean James said he was bothered by his bandmates' shoes ferchrissake

"i'm not sure if it's just .. anyone's shoe but mabye just.. the thought of it.. the thought of what's on their feet at any given moment.."

Quote:

Originally Posted by slunken

basically yes. rough sketch but extremely accurrate (this is all purely speculative). But to his credit jimmy always went out of his way to be nice to d'arcy - she just hated him for superficial reasons.

how the hell can it be extremely accurate when it's purely speculative?

reprise85 · 01-25-2014, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shallowed

See there was that thing on Vieuphoria in the therapy session thing, but I thought that was all a joke, I mean James said he was bothered by his bandmates' shoes ferchrissake

I think they all treated it differently. James made it a joke. Jimmy was half-serious. I don't even know about D'Arcy. Exaggerated, I'm sure. Billy played to his public persona, even though I'm sure he actually sort of believed what he was saying.

juliana · 01-25-2014, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reprise85

I think they all treated it differently. James made it a joke. Jimmy was half-serious. I don't even know about D'Arcy. Exaggerated, I'm sure. Billy played to his public persona, even though I'm sure he actually sort of believed what he was saying.

Billy still doesn't shut up about the circus today.

Ram27 · 01-25-2014, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juliana

James was a passive aggressive bitch behind closed doors. D'arcy enabled james to put up with Billy and Billy found it easier to not fight D'arcy. Jimmy was a cock sucker who made their lives hell but they put up with him because of his talent. Billy had extreme mental issues; rage, depression, nagging...

My guesses:
Billy wanted James to be his bff but james only liked D'arcy.
D'arcy hated Jimmy.

ANYONE WHO'S EVER BEEN IN, AROUND, ASSOCIATED WITH, OR EVEN LISTENED TO THE SMASHING PUMPKINS IS AN ASSHOLE

/board

Ram27 · 01-25-2014, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reprise85

I think they all treated it differently. James made it a joke. Jimmy was half-serious. I don't even know about D'Arcy. Exaggerated, I'm sure. Billy played to his public persona, even though I'm sure he actually sort of believed what he was saying.

I always thought it was entirely sarcastic. They can't be that deluded, right? r-right?

slunken · 01-25-2014, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panda show

how the hell can it be extremely accurate when it's purely speculative?

Scary right?

reprise85 · 01-26-2014, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ram27

I always thought it was entirely sarcastic. They can't be that deluded, right? r-right?

I'm sure JC felt marginalized in the band
And D'Arcy was the "voice of reason"
James used dry humor to communicate in weird and vague ways
And Billy, the martyr, suffering for his work

The truth tends to make a presence whether you want it to or not.

themadcaplaughs · 01-26-2014, 01:26 PM

Billy is pretending like he is hamming it up in that segment in Vieuphoria, but his is completely serious.

themadcaplaughs · 01-26-2014, 01:31 PM

Reading his Confessions, along with all the other stuff he's said about James since the band got revived, I feel like there are two issues that ultimately drove Billy and James apart.

1. The songwriting. As Slunken posted, this seems to be an issue that has plagued the band since early days. With the few notable exceptions (i.e. "Take Me Down" and "Go") it seems like anything James wrote on his own was immediately relegated to b-side status. I'm not saying Billy wasn't right in making his songs (or the handful of songs he co-wrote with James) the primary focus of the band, but that being said I can understand why James felt his contributions were not being appreciated. To have six albums of original material and only have two of your own songs featured is pretty rough.

2. The other issue seems to be the "celebrity" factor. After the success of Mellon Collie, James seemed more content to hang around and live the "rock star life" while Billy (who certainly enjoyed the perks of being a star) was interested in diving right into the next big work and reinventing the sound of the band. Billy's resentment of this really came through in the Confessions (feeling betrayed that James wouldn't live at that house with them, James coming to the studio only when needed and playing only on songs that he thought he could contribute to in a direct manner).

slunken · 01-26-2014, 05:11 PM

Go wasn't even finished when BC lumped it onto M2

pavementtune · 01-26-2014, 05:51 PM

https://fbcdn-photos-h-a.akamaihd.ne...37427649_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-photos-d-a.akamaihd.ne...43600456_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-photos-f-a.akamaihd.ne...81548914_n.jpg

Trotskilicious · 01-27-2014, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themadcaplaughs

1. The songwriting. As Slunken posted, this seems to be an issue that has plagued the band since early days. With the few notable exceptions (i.e. "Take Me Down" and "Go") it seems like anything James wrote on his own was immediately relegated to b-side status. I'm not saying Billy wasn't right in making his songs (or the handful of songs he co-wrote with James) the primary focus of the band, but that being said I can understand why James felt his contributions were not being appreciated. To have six albums of original material and only have two of your own songs featured is pretty rough.

Well James songs suck i mean

HereIsNoWhy4U · 01-27-2014, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

Well James songs suck i mean

James wanted Take Me Down as a single.

T&T · 01-27-2014, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HereIsNoWhy4U

James wanted Take Me Down as a single.

that would have been stupid.
he was in the billy corgan band to start off with anyways. don't be an idiot james.

how high did any james's solo singles ever chart? Let it Come Down hit 171 on the billboard 200.

juliana · 01-27-2014, 12:56 PM

James was a little bitch. Ya Billy is one too, but James just didn't get his somgs weren't that good and refused any help from Billy. Billy is an annoying little cunt who probably would try to take over the songs but he could have asked billy to help with some. Also, maybe james couldn't take criticism.

However, James really fixed a lot of his issues on the last album. His current friends helped him and taught him a different way to work that wasn't as time consuming as when he worked with Corgan. I think both style of oceania and look to the sky were combined you would have an amazing new sp album.

ANYWAYS, the more important question is: WHO HAS THE BIGGER DICK, Jeff or james?

HereIsNoWhy4U · 01-27-2014, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T&T

that would have been stupid.
he was in the billy corgan band to start off with anyways. don't be an idiot james.

how high did any james's solo singles ever chart? Let it Come Down hit 171 on the billboard 200.

James would never have gotten anything released if he wasn't in SP.

Trotskilicious · 01-27-2014, 01:14 PM

take me down is the worst james song that made it on a "real" album

Trotskilicious · 01-27-2014, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juliana

ANYWAYS, the more important question is: WHO HAS THE BIGGER DICK, Jeff or james?

jeff because he's half white

...

i apologize for that joke in advance

Trotskilicious · 01-27-2014, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juliana

Also, maybe james couldn't take criticism.

just a hunch, but i think bill can't give it either

he's probably like "Well james this is boring and lifeless like yer DICK hahaha just kiddin ol pal. no not really your songs are horrible HAHAHAHAHA nah just kiddin you're an alright guy hahaha but no seriously your songs are real bad."

juliana · 01-27-2014, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

just a hunch, but i think bill can't give it either

he's probably like "Well james this is boring and lifeless like yer DICK hahaha just kiddin ol pal. no not really your songs are horrible HAHAHAHAHA nah just kiddin you're an alright guy hahaha but no seriously your songs are real bad."

yup, he was probably a cunt face about it. I also do not know why Take Me Down made the album – James had better songs, maybe it most fit? It is pretty bad. It is also funny how James was pissed about where it was placed. I always thought it was good where it was. BC said they worked on it more than any other song.

T&T · 01-27-2014, 08:02 PM

I really don't see how the bookend to disk 1 is a diss.
but then again james thought it was a single.... he can't be that much of an idiot can he?

redbreegull · 01-27-2014, 08:36 PM

is there a source for that factoid other than genre master hereisnowhy?

T&T · 01-28-2014, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbreegull

is there a source for that factoid other than genre master hereisnowhy?

your right. "James wanted Take Me Down as a single." is something Genre Master just made up. Billy has only (MCIS deluxe liner notes) said that James wanted the song to have a more prominent position on the album, yet no mention of wanting it as a single

http://i.imgur.com/1MfdB18.jpg

Cool As Ice Cream · 01-28-2014, 03:48 AM

didn't belly once talk about how he and james met, and james brought some of his songs over, and belly was all like "this is not good, we have to change this, we have to change that" and james got angry and left, and belly thought that was the last he had seen of james.
but then the next time, james was there again, and they started the pumpkins.

i think it was in one of those documentaries. graceful swans of never or full circle or what have you.

pavementtune · 01-28-2014, 03:50 AM

I remember that, too.
That's what worked, though. At least for a couple of years.

slunken · 01-28-2014, 04:19 AM

something worth mentioning - about james singing a song on an album or maybe live - i always thought it was kind of a throwback to 70s bands where the bass player (usually) would lead and sing a song. kind of a fun thing for the fans who picked favorite members - it gave them more to latch onto.

HereIsNoWhy4U · 01-28-2014, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T&T

your right. "James wanted Take Me Down as a single." is something Genre Master just made up. Billy has only (MCIS deluxe liner notes) said that James wanted the song to have a more prominent position on the album, yet no mention of wanting it as a single

http://i.imgur.com/1MfdB18.jpg

It was a fucking joke you imbecile. Also, it's "you're".

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01-25-2014, 02:22 AM	#31
Shallowed Braindead Posts: 18,608	See there was that thing on Vieuphoria in the therapy session thing, but I thought that was all a joke, I mean James said he was bothered by his bandmates' shoes ferchrissake

01-26-2014, 01:26 PM	#41
themadcaplaughs Apocalyptic Poster Posts: 2,628	Billy is pretending like he is hamming it up in that segment in Vieuphoria, but his is completely serious.

01-26-2014, 01:31 PM	#42
themadcaplaughs Apocalyptic Poster Posts: 2,628	Reading his Confessions, along with all the other stuff he's said about James since the band got revived, I feel like there are two issues that ultimately drove Billy and James apart. 1. The songwriting. As Slunken posted, this seems to be an issue that has plagued the band since early days. With the few notable exceptions (i.e. "Take Me Down" and "Go") it seems like anything James wrote on his own was immediately relegated to b-side status. I'm not saying Billy wasn't right in making his songs (or the handful of songs he co-wrote with James) the primary focus of the band, but that being said I can understand why James felt his contributions were not being appreciated. To have six albums of original material and only have two of your own songs featured is pretty rough. 2. The other issue seems to be the "celebrity" factor. After the success of Mellon Collie, James seemed more content to hang around and live the "rock star life" while Billy (who certainly enjoyed the perks of being a star) was interested in diving right into the next big work and reinventing the sound of the band. Billy's resentment of this really came through in the Confessions (feeling betrayed that James wouldn't live at that house with them, James coming to the studio only when needed and playing only on songs that he thought he could contribute to in a direct manner).

01-26-2014, 05:11 PM	#43
slunken Virgo Posts: 42,781	Go wasn't even finished when BC lumped it onto M2

01-26-2014, 05:51 PM	#44
pavementtune ************** Location: I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all. Posts: 8,661	https://fbcdn-photos-h-a.akamaihd.ne...37427649_n.jpg https://fbcdn-photos-d-a.akamaihd.ne...43600456_n.jpg https://fbcdn-photos-f-a.akamaihd.ne...81548914_n.jpg

01-27-2014, 12:56 PM	#48
juliana Apocalyptic Poster Location: Crestfallen News Dumpster Posts: 3,056	James was a little bitch. Ya Billy is one too, but James just didn't get his somgs weren't that good and refused any help from Billy. Billy is an annoying little cunt who probably would try to take over the songs but he could have asked billy to help with some. Also, maybe james couldn't take criticism. However, James really fixed a lot of his issues on the last album. His current friends helped him and taught him a different way to work that wasn't as time consuming as when he worked with Corgan. I think both style of oceania and look to the sky were combined you would have an amazing new sp album. ANYWAYS, the more important question is: WHO HAS THE BIGGER DICK, Jeff or james?

01-27-2014, 01:14 PM	#50
Trotskilicious Banned Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship. Posts: 39,439	take me down is the worst james song that made it on a "real" album

01-27-2014, 08:02 PM	#54
T&T Socialphobic Location: montreal Posts: 11,679	I really don't see how the bookend to disk 1 is a diss. but then again james thought it was a single.... he can't be that much of an idiot can he?

01-27-2014, 08:36 PM	#55
redbreegull Just Hook it to My Veins! Location: N3t4Euh Haus Posts: 32,753	is there a source for that factoid other than genre master hereisnowhy?

01-28-2014, 03:48 AM	#57
Cool As Ice Cream Just Hook it to My Veins! Location: František! How's the foot of your turtle? Posts: 32,743	didn't belly once talk about how he and james met, and james brought some of his songs over, and belly was all like "this is not good, we have to change this, we have to change that" and james got angry and left, and belly thought that was the last he had seen of james. but then the next time, james was there again, and they started the pumpkins. i think it was in one of those documentaries. graceful swans of never or full circle or what have you.

01-28-2014, 03:50 AM	#58
pavementtune ************** Location: I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all. Posts: 8,661	I remember that, too. That's what worked, though. At least for a couple of years.

01-28-2014, 04:19 AM	#59
slunken Virgo Posts: 42,781	something worth mentioning - about james singing a song on an album or maybe live - i always thought it was kind of a throwback to 70s bands where the bass player (usually) would lead and sing a song. kind of a fun thing for the fans who picked favorite members - it gave them more to latch onto.