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Old 06-29-2014, 06:14 AM   #31
D.
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ezra koenig' voice is beautiful u fuck!!!!!!!

 
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Old 06-29-2014, 06:33 AM   #32
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right, i know. with VW it's always Style > substance

pitchfork album of the year

 
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Old 06-29-2014, 09:54 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Charmbag View Post
I don't think anybody actually thinks either of those people are "bad vocalists"
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Originally Posted by Charmbag View Post
By lots of people do you mean the general public who is looking for Josh Groban or Beyonce type vocals when they say "good singer"? Admittedly Billy's singing has been hosed for about 10+ years now but I think among fans of the genre he has one of the most iconic voices out there
You said "anybody", so I assumed that included the general public.

I love BC's voice but it's technical shitty in the majority of cases. I have known plenty of people who flat out refuse to listen to post-SD Corgan because of his voice. His voice was very pretty on softer songs and great on aggressive shit like BWBW and Fuck You, but a lot of people hate it. It is very unique and very emotionally expressive, but if you don't connect personally with the emotionality it probably isn't very appealing.

 
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Old 06-29-2014, 10:29 PM   #34
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it's not technically shitty

 
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Old 06-29-2014, 10:30 PM   #35
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I was responding to rbg's post in which he stated Billy is "known for being a bad vocalist and a good lyricist". Considering "the general public" has probably not given thought to Billy's lyrics I assumed we were talking about more interested and educated listeners and the music press. In that context I would say his lyrics are much more widely reviled than his vocals.

 
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Old 06-29-2014, 10:32 PM   #36
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With any art that is even the least bit off-center someone can always say "oh my mom thought that was weird/bad/not as good as Santana" so I kind of don't see the point in mentioning it.

The majority of voices in alternashit are technically imperfect and kinda out-there.

 
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Old 06-29-2014, 10:55 PM   #37
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bill is an overrated lyricist by his fans
a technically good singer
a weird, abrasive voice
a gifted composer when he's working hard
and a redonkulous guitar player

 
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Old 06-30-2014, 10:55 PM   #38
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Most of the time I give more importance to lyrics, but I like some pretty adolescent bs lyrics, so that's not necessarily quality.

Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen aren't good vocalists imo, but I think that adds to the music. Something about ugly male vocals make the music seem sincere to me. That's probably a dumb comment, but whatever.

 
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Old 07-01-2014, 12:35 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
bill can definitely hit a note on demand
this is only really true after he got the singing lessons in 1997 and there are about a million youtube videos which highlight his complete inability to hit notes consistently in the old days

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Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
like how come he's unable to get the fact that i was being a little bit ridicluous when i said that it was possible for someone to make a career being a baseball player when they were "completely out-of-shape"
probably because I literally said "I can't tell if you are being serious but..." and then you decided to just run with it and act like I'm the idiot later on for believing you? OH LOL JUST JOKING U R STUPID

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charmbag View Post
I was responding to rbg's post in which he stated Billy is "known for being a bad vocalist and a good lyricist". Considering "the general public" has probably not given thought to Billy's lyrics I assumed we were talking about more interested and educated listeners and the music press. In that context I would say his lyrics are much more widely reviled than his vocals.
I don't even know what to say to that, it's just not true. I am indeed talking about the music press and people who are knowledgeable about alternative music. His voice is the thing the band is most reviled for, beyond his personality, or the lyrics (which I'm just not sure where you are coming from, where do you see all these people who think he's a terrible lyricist?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
bill is an overrated lyricist by his fans
a technically good singer
a weird, abrasive voice
a gifted composer when he's working hard
and a redonkulous guitar player
I can see how his lyrics are not everyone's cup of tea but he was quite gifted in the poignancy of many of his lyrics. It's always been very impressive to me how he was able to form cogent moods and feelings and atmospheres out of mostly abstract imagery and word play.

And no dude, Reprise is right, really not a technically good singer until he got some training. Even in the very early days before he started screaming his head off, he has terrible pitch and his voice is all over the place. It sounds beautiful to me because I love it for its emotional intensity and honesty, but no, not a technically good singer really by any measure. These days it's the opposite. He is technically a... well at least a much better singer, but the feeling is completely absent.

 
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Old 07-01-2014, 12:40 AM   #40
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bullet with butterfly wings sealed his fate as a awful lyricist. because of the sellout factor too. i've never heard or read anyone complain about his actual vocal abilities though. he's a little nasal but he's not dean ween.

 
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Old 07-01-2014, 04:15 AM   #41
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that moment when you realize the day has come when someone wants to actually argue with you that billy corgan has a technically good voice


headdesk

 
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Old 07-01-2014, 05:13 AM   #42
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I wouldn't go that far. never said it was technically good. his voice is just distinct. lots of "singers" are indistinguishable from each other now a days. There's only a select few I think that have voices with their personality all over it. like Robert Smith. You know it's him when he's singing on anyone's record. I wouldn't say his voice is technically good either. Just emotive like Billy's used to be. They've both done their fair share of awful lyrics I think. It's not much of an argument. The consensus seems to be that because he is a douchebag (billy) it's easier to have issue with his lyricsm if he is so critical of his fans it only seems fair his fans return the criticism. And using the cure to compare again, Robert Smith is not known to be douchey so fans seem much more forgiving of his musical atrocities committed after wish and wild mood swings. He also has led fans on for decades on promised releases that have never come through. Like he enjoys torturing people. I guess kinda like Billy.

 
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Old 07-01-2014, 09:11 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by noyen View Post
I wouldn't go that far. never said it was technically good. his voice is just distinct. lots of "singers" are indistinguishable from each other now a days. There's only a select few I think that have voices with their personality all over it. like Robert Smith. You know it's him when he's singing on anyone's record. I wouldn't say his voice is technically good either. Just emotive like Billy's used to be. They've both done their fair share of awful lyrics I think. It's not much of an argument. The consensus seems to be that because he is a douchebag (billy) it's easier to have issue with his lyricsm if he is so critical of his fans it only seems fair his fans return the criticism. And using the cure to compare again, Robert Smith is not known to be douchey so fans seem much more forgiving of his musical atrocities committed after wish and wild mood swings. He also has led fans on for decades on promised releases that have never come through. Like he enjoys torturing people. I guess kinda like Billy.
yeah I agree with this 100%.

Rat in a cage is silly but it's not any sillier than any Nirvana hit. The lyrics are probably still more inventive than most modern rock singles. There are just so many amazing lyrical moments that came from the original SP, I guess it's hard for the overblown angsty ones to drag down my opinion too much.

 
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Old 07-01-2014, 11:16 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
I mean I would rather the lyrics be good as well and I don't deny that adds another layer of goodness to good music....

but to use an example we have been talking about here lately, Interpol. Horrible, cringe-worthy lyrics in pretty much every song. In the context of the music, really makes no difference.
I wanted to mention that in that thread. But the truth is this band would have been a lot better with better lyrics. Its a band i liked well enough on the first two recorda but liked, not loved. With good lyrics it might have made the difference.

 
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Old 07-01-2014, 11:33 AM   #45
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The thing with voice is you can't account for taste. A lot of bands i liked throughout the years have shall we say, unique singers... I may have grown out of most SP but my issue is still not the voice. It's not really a good one but it's fine for what it is. Obviously i'm a Cure fan, no one would say Robert Smith can sing (in fact in a few cases i think he's really ruined his own songs with his voice, he had mannerisms some time in the late 80's that were really annoying, Kiss me kiss me kiss me should have been called oh oh oh).

I really like Altered Images and might be one of the only person on earth to like them that much because most people would agree the lyrics are insipid to say the least and Claire Grogan can't really sing and tries to sound like a naive little girl (which normally should piss me off but doesn't here). But for what the band was, it works for me.

Definitely a LOT of bands turn me off on a voice level right away but generally it's voices the average person likes. and there's not just voice, there's vocal melodies which is a different skill in itself. I think for one there's been a real problem in the past ten years with women voices in music. Indie happened and suddenly singing was about not really knowing how to sing and kinda whispering and going lalala. On the other side of the coin you've got american idol type voices, trying to sound like a black woman singing regardless of your skin color. I rarely hear women voices nowadays that CAN actually sing but don't OVERsing. Then again i suppose its the same with men but i tend to notice it more when girls sing i guess.

 
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Old 07-01-2014, 02:27 PM   #46
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The thing with voice is you can't account for taste.
this is true obviously because we're all on this message board for a band with one of the weirdest voices in popular music. I think there is a lot of conflation going on in this thread between what people find personally palatable and what has good form from a technical standpoint. I like Billy Corgan's voice, I like Bob Dylan's voice, I like Neil Young's voice. That does not mean they are technically proficient any more than my appreciation of Kurt Cobain's guitar work means he is a virtuoso. I can't help but feel that people saying they've never heard or read anyone say something negative about b0lly's voice are just being contrarian for the sake of it. There is nothing else in SP's legacy in the public consciousness that even comes close to his weird voice.

 
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Old 07-01-2014, 04:06 PM   #47
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I can't help but feel that people saying they've never heard or read anyone say something negative about b0lly's voice are just being contrarian for the sake of it. There is nothing else in SP's legacy in the public consciousness that even comes close to his weird voice.
I haven't though. and im old and have read a lot. I however am not stating it as fact the way "some people" are that no has ever. I have never seen it personally. I find his voice annoying as hell myself but I'm not the media. I've only read or seen people attach his personal dickishness and maybe throw in a "his voice is annoying". There is nothing that you know of that comes close to his weird voice. I don't see this as an argument or trying to be right. I am quite wrong on a lot of things. I am unaware of a lot too. Anyway carry on.

 
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