Zeitgeist, Oceania, and Monuments

[LaBelle]

It wasn't until very recently that his actions got so obnoxious that they color the music to me.

I think Zeitgeist was fine for what it was and it could as easily have been a stepping stone to a return to form for SP.

Teargarden was what literally killed the momentum between the long delays between songs and how weak the material was.

Everything after that just felt lazy and uninspired to me.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Woody

The thing that prevented me from embracing Zeitgeist was the vocal mix.

The thing that prevented me from embracing Oceania was that it was terrible.

I began to embrace MTAE but then I realised it was a 3 star facsimile of better music with terrible lyrics and vocal mix.

Billy giving douchebag interviews at the same time explained the music rather than influencing my perception of it.

This seems right. Mtae is p decent. I might want to listen to stellar and United States again someday. Oceania is trash.

[FlamingGlobes]

Oceania always felt like a pretty solid alt-rock album from an SP inspired band, just didn't sound like SP. That people would actually prefer Monuments is baffling. There is absolutely zero thought or energy put into the songs or performances on Monuments that I can hear. Oceania at least sounds like a band straining to create together. And it works for a few moments here and there.

[Ram27]

this. OC felt the most warm and organic

worst drums however

[FoolofaTook]

ur dad felt warm and organic

[FlamingGlobes]

[Squish Squash]

lol some of you actually listen to live performances of faux-SP? I can’t bring myself to. Billy’s voice is so weird now too.

[FoolofaTook]

yeah i rather go with falming flobes to a triple h show or whatever the fuck


in other words NOT AT ALL

[VoxUpDoc]

You guys should listen to Dogleg btw. Great debut.

[VoxUpDoc]

Originally Posted by FlamingGlobes

Oceania always felt like a pretty solid alt-rock album from an SP inspired band, just didn't sound like SP. That people would actually prefer Monuments is baffling. There is absolutely zero thought or energy put into the songs or performances on Monuments that I can hear. Oceania at least sounds like a band straining to create together. And it works for a few moments here and there.

Some of MTAE was based on older SP material, the production was slightly better than Oceania and Teargarden, Being Beige was going for a 33-vibe and was convincingly personal from Bill.

Oceania just sounds like an inferior band doing SP but fucking flat. Maybe it’s the drums, maybe that it tried to rehash SD, or maybe it’s that the songs just aren’t good.

In the mid-00’s Bill started singing differently, mixing his voice differently, and to his ears it sounds better. His and no-one else’s. This combined with some of his awful interviews really soured the fanbase on the guy.

[smashingjj]

what do you prefer, meh or w/e?

[Eulogy]

I could never even get through Oceania. It’s that bad. MTAE is a solid pop/alt rock record.

[Forgotten Child]

MTAE is bad. Uninspired kind of bad.

I really like Oceania. Violet Rays, Pinwheels, Pale Horse are solid! Billy should've gone with a noisier mixing tho, like the original mix of Inkless




Zeitgeist is good too, maybe not strong enough for a comeback tho.

[Disco King]

I feel like I should prefer Oceania to Zeitgeist, but whatever, I think Zeitgeist is better.

Oceania does feel more earnest, like Corgan is just writing songs without the intent to "be relevant again" or "show I've still got it" or "appeal to the kids," and it's also more musically complex and sophisticated than Zeitgeist, but I dunno, man… it also just feels kinda flat and muted. It almost feels like dad rock mixed with adult contemporary. Even the tracks that try to bring the rawk, like the opening track, just feel like "'Cherub Rock' as played by Jeff from accounting". Only track where I go "okay, this one is actually good" is the title track. I remember thinking some others, like "Wildflower," "Inkless" (I think? There are three tracks near the end that sound similar, but only one of them I really liked), and "Violet Rays" are almost there, but something is missing (probably Corgan's vocals killing it).

Zeitgeist has some tracks that I can actually bang my head to. That's a dumb criterion for music, but whatever, I'm a dumb rock fan. Sometimes there's just a Doomsday Clock ticking in your heart and you gotta grab your guitar and bang out drop-D power chords to its rhythm. Zeitgeist marks the last album where Corgan could write heavy songs. All his "rawk" stuff since is amongst his most cringeworthy material, and his only passable new songs are his slower, quieter, more somber ones.

I've never listened to Elegy to a Monument or Day for Night, so I can't comment on them. I've only heard the singles from Shiny and Oh So Bright: No D'Arcy, and "Silvery Sometimes" is okay, "Knights of Malta" is unintentionally funny, and "Solara" is just awful.

[Squish Squash]

Originally Posted by Disco King

I feel like I should prefer Oceania to Zeitgeist, but whatever, I think Zeitgeist is better.

Oceania does feel more earnest, like Corgan is just writing songs without the intent to "be relevant again" or "show I've still got it" or "appeal to the kids," and it's also more musically complex and sophisticated than Zeitgeist, but I dunno, man… it also just feels kinda flat and muted. It almost feels like dad rock mixed with adult contemporary. Even the tracks that try to bring the rawk, like the opening track, just feel like "'Cherub Rock' as played by Jeff from accounting". Only track where I go "okay, this one is actually good" is the title track. I remember thinking some others, like "Wildflower," "Inkless" (I think? There are three tracks near the end that sound similar, but only one of them I really liked), and "Violet Rays" are almost there, but something is missing (probably Corgan's vocals killing it).

Zeitgeist has some tracks that I can actually bang my head to. That's a dumb criterion for music, but whatever, I'm a dumb rock fan. Sometimes there's just a Doomsday Clock ticking in your heart and you gotta grab your guitar and bang out drop-D power chords to its rhythm. Zeitgeist marks the last album where Corgan could write heavy songs. All his "rawk" stuff since is amongst his most cringeworthy material, and his only passable new songs are his slower, quieter, more somber ones.

I've never listened to Elegy to a Monument or Day for Night, so I can't comment on them. I've only heard the singles from Shiny and Oh So Bright: No D'Arcy, and "Silvery Sometimes" is okay, "Knights of Malta" is unintentionally funny, and "Solara" is just awful.

[Eulogy]

Listening to MTAE on vinyl rn and one and all is easily one of his best post machina songs.

[Squish Squash]

How did you customize your user title?

[FoolofaTook]

It's easy.

The first step is sending me 1,000 $ (CAD). I will pm you the rest of the details upon receiving payment.

[Squish Squash]

Took is clearly Moby

[FoolofaTook]

shit i wish i had that much game

[Eulogy]

Oh wait I forgot about the future embrace. Half of those are better than any of this.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Squish Squash

How did you customize your user title?

It was like 20 years ago so I could not tell you lol

[Joey Goldberg]

he got in touch with the almighty deity known as ratbastardquinto, the rest is history

[Joey Goldberg]

& that’s that!

[FoolofaTook]

ITT: We Compare Turds

[Joey Goldberg]

i bet you feel like a real big man when you shit on Lord Corgan

[smashingjj]

1. he is a big man
2. you'd have to be pretty enormous to shit on Corgan without a ladder

[FoolofaTook]

Thank you, smashingjj. However, while I may be a big man, I'm nowhere near as big as my father.

[Joey Goldberg]

so your father is big enough to admit Zeitgeist isn't that bad?

[FoolofaTook]

My father's as big as you need him to be, honey bun.