http://bitingbeaver.blogspot.com/2006/09/morality-clauses-ec-and-broken-condoms.html

[Corganist]

Originally Posted by To Starla

All Plan B is, is a mega dose of levonorgestrel, the same synthetic hormone found in the birth control pill called Alesse. Plan B is the equivilant to taking four pills at once. (nevermind I just read where you already know that)

Anyway, had the girl been raped, would they have handed it over to her a little more easily and not risk legal implications?

Probably. I imagine that there aren't a lot of legal implications in prescribing plan B. That's why I distinguished it from prescribing painkillers or narcotics, which are tightly controlled and could get a doc in big trouble if he prescribes them willy-nilly. My main point was that doctors probably don't want to get a reputation for prescribing plan B no questions asked because they could end up fielding random calls every weekend from all over the place asking for "emergency" plan B prescriptions.

[Ol' Couch Ass]

"Surely she could have gotten someone to prescribe her an over the counter coat hanger... OH!"

http://content.answers.com/main/cont...11582S0RS5.JPG

And yes, I am ashamed for making this joke.

mariner thank you for making me realize i'm not a libertarian

[Dice]

Originally Posted by The Juerto

"Surely she could have gotten someone to prescribe her an over the counter coat hanger... OH!"

http://content.answers.com/main/cont...11582S0RS5.JPG

And yes, I am ashamed for making this joke.

You got a fuckin' problem over here, snapperhead?

[Mariner]

Originally Posted by ravenguy2000

But wait - it is. You'd just rather dismiss the other issues brought up by simply labelling her as "irresponsible" and just leaving it at that.

so the whole point of you posting this article and starting this thread is to say that you think it's dumb that some people think that EC is wrong. am i right or am i missing some other issue here?

[Mariner]

Originally Posted by Graveflower

mariner thank you for making me realize i'm not a libertarian

would you care to say why? what about this situation was anybody's fault but the two people who had sex?

i'm just bothered by the ridiculous everyone for themselves no sympathy attitude shared by everyone with similar political views as me except for me

someone makes mistake, gets upset about it
"too bad, fuck 'em"
cool

sorry people living in the most affluent (can i get a ruling on this from whatcolor?) nation in the world forgot to make sure their doctors wouldnt morally object to providing them needed (it was, fuck you) medication in the event that other precautions they were taking didn't work

everyone who wants to have sex should just have a vasectomy or get their ovaries taken out

although it'll be pretty funny if it turns out she didn't get pregnant

[ravenguy2000]

I just find it confounding that, correct me if I'm wrong, your sentiment is that she was irresponsible in her actions which somehow leaves these doctors off the hook for treating her as if she was some sort of filthy harlot. Seriously, asking her if she's married? I mean what the fuck?

I just don't get it. If people were denied medical treatment all the time because they were behaving irresponsibly, half the people in the emergency room right now would be screwed. What about people who get into car crashes without their seatbelts on? Or kids who aren't wearing their helmets when they fall of their skateboards? Or people who dive head first into shallow pools? All irresponsible, but because she's a woman in rural Ohio who's problem happens to be sex related she has to meet some fucked up male doctor's criteria to be treated? It's sad.

[Corganist]

Originally Posted by ravenguy2000

I just find it confounding that, correct me if I'm wrong, your sentiment is that she was irresponsible in her actions which somehow leaves these doctors off the hook for treating her as if she was some sort of filthy harlot. Seriously, asking her if she's married? I mean what the fuck?

I just don't get it. If people were denied medical treatment all the time because they were behaving irresponsibly, half the people in the emergency room right now would be screwed. What about people who get into car crashes without their seatbelts on? Or kids who aren't wearing their helmets when they fall of their skateboards? Or people who dive head first into shallow pools? All irresponsible, but because she's a woman in rural Ohio who's problem happens to be sex related she has to meet some fucked up male doctor's criteria to be treated? It's sad.

I think the point is that her irresponsiblity doesn't obligate the doctors to prescribe her medicine just because she thinks she needs it without so much as speaking to a doctor. The condom breaking is not her fault, but her expecting other people to make it easy on her to correct the consequences of that is. It obviously wasn't much of an emergency situation. The condom broke on Friday. She sat on her ass until Saturday before discovering the shocking news that doctors just don't hand out prescription medication to anybody who decides to call the ER on the weekend. You don't actually expect doctors to prescribe medicine to people they've never seen without screening them do you? It just doesn't work that way. If she was really dead set on having EC as a backstop in case the condom broke, that's fine. But its not something you try to throw together on a Saturday afternoon.

[Orenthal James]

what irritating about the story is having to pay an ER bill to get a prescription. that doesn't make sense to me.

anyway, if she made this mistake 4 months in the future, none of this would have happened.

[GlasgowKiss]

Edit: I cant be bothered being involved with this argument, because its medicine being withheld on moral grounds, which to me is on a par with denying niggers a heart transplant cos they're niggers.

[Lie]

Originally Posted by Graveflower

i'm just bothered by the ridiculous everyone for themselves no sympathy attitude shared by everyone with similar political views as me except for me

someone makes mistake, gets upset about it
"too bad, fuck 'em"
cool

No, I'm with you. Personally, I have sympathy for anyone who experiences a situation like this in real life. That does not necessarily conflict with the fact that this was a situation involving someone being irresponsible, or that I may not like this person, or that this person may be a lying cunt, or what have you.

Frankly, though I have no desire to attack anyone in particular, this is one of the more disjointed discussions I've seen on this board. Saying this woman was irresponsible is a closed statement. It is not a political statement and hardly even a moral one, it's closer to simple fact.

Thinking or feeling that there was something shitty about this situation and that this may have something to do with the climate of politics in the medical industry does not presuppose that you support the government enforcing a code of moral levity upon individual doctors.

IMO, if there is any interesting or especially relevant point to be made here it is that the combination of legal insinuation in the medical industry combined with the relative freedom of individual doctors makes for inefficient practice in some areas of the country. It seems to me that there is a ton of political conflict concerning the American medical industry such that the moral constraints we've excercised on it, combined with the lack of constraints that are also dictated by a certain feeling of morality, and the manifestation of these things has caused certain obvious problems, real-life problems of efficiency that COULD be solved by less political restraint rather than more. I think this is worth talking about.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by ravenguy2000

I just find it confounding that, correct me if I'm wrong, your sentiment is that she was irresponsible in her actions which somehow leaves these doctors off the hook for treating her as if she was some sort of filthy harlot.

That was her perception and personally the way she told her tale it sounded a bit blown out of proportion.

Seriously, asking her if she's married? I mean what the fuck?

Many people who go through triage for initial assessment get asked those basic questions. I think this woman took the ball and ran with it, claiming they were treating her like a harlot just because they didn't hand over the goods.

I just don't get it. If people were denied medical treatment all the time because they were behaving irresponsibly, half the people in the emergency room right now would be screwed.

This woman ALREADY has children. Maybe I'm being a bitch here, but seriously, if a woman doesn't know how to chart her own cycles and know when she can/can't get pregnant, how to use back up and not rely upon just condoms after already having children, then she is acting irresponsible having sex without back up.

What about people who get into car crashes without their seatbelts on? Or kids who aren't wearing their helmets when they fall of their skateboards? Or people who dive head first into shallow pools? All irresponsible, but because she's a woman in rural Ohio who's problem happens to be sex related she has to meet some fucked up male doctor's criteria to be treated? It's sad.

I never said she didn't deserve help.

No seatbelt, you could die. Dive into a shallow pool without using common sense, you could die. Have sex with just a condom and nothing else, it could break or you could get knocked up. All these scenarios are still about one thing, they had a choice in them.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Corganist

I think the point is that her irresponsiblity doesn't obligate the doctors to prescribe her medicine just because she thinks she needs it without so much as speaking to a doctor. The condom breaking is not her fault, but her expecting other people to make it easy on her to correct the consequences of that is. It obviously wasn't much of an emergency situation. The condom broke on Friday. She sat on her ass until Saturday before discovering the shocking news that doctors just don't hand out prescription medication to anybody who decides to call the ER on the weekend. You don't actually expect doctors to prescribe medicine to people they've never seen without screening them do you? It just doesn't work that way. If she was really dead set on having EC as a backstop in case the condom broke, that's fine. But its not something you try to throw together on a Saturday afternoon.

Damn. I actually agree with Corganist.