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Old 06-10-2018, 12:33 AM   #1
fuzzyroes
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Default Will the new music sucking diminish your opinion of James Iha in the groupe?

I've read a lot over the years that the Pumpkins needed Iha back and that everything would work itself out.

Well, it seems the sane majority hates Solara, which is supposed to be the huge, eagerly anticipated return of James Iha to Smashing Pumpkins... But as I browse online, NO ONE is shitting on Iha, just Corgan...

Does James Iha not deserve a ton of criticism for this massive turd? It's easy to rip on Billy, but Iha signed off on this piece of shit. At least for Jimmy, the drumming rocks on the song, so I can see why he'd like it.

But this is the best Iha has to offer? Or is it true? Is he merely returning as a puppet to receive a big pay day? Either way, it's gotta hurt Iha's reputation within the fan community.

Last edited by fuzzyroes : 06-10-2018 at 02:19 AM.

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 12:53 AM   #2
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Is playing a sustained note really enough to consider Iha in the track?

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 12:53 AM   #3
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Or is he really even there

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:01 AM   #4
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James is...tough to figure out

Lots of people in the Solara thread were talking about how Corgan's success made him not give a shit; he's not hungry anymore. Iha seems so chill, I feel like he'd write good parts and contribute to a song anyway

From Billy's texts, it seems James was barely involved in the sessions.

It's hard to blame James for how shitty Solara is, given how Pumpkins-y To Who Knows Where and Gemini sound, without Billy and Jimmy and D'arcy. He's the perfect foil to Billy musically, when he contributes

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:49 AM   #5
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It doesn't even sound like James is on Solara at all. The song is just rhythm guitar and drums, and Corgan undoubtedly recorded all the guitar on it.

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:53 AM   #6
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Imagine having 3 guitarists (one of whom is known for doing off the wall creative things with effects), and writing a song that rides a palm muted B chord for 4 minutes

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:57 AM   #7
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A lot of it has to do with the fact that Solara sounds like Zeitgeist-era music, but composed in the Monuments style. Those two albums are, undeniably, the two most "billy-centric" albums in the band's catalog, and also the worst (Teargarden doesn't actually count as canon in my mind, fwiw). Why should people not consider this track to be another case of Billy fucking up when it sounds almost indistinguishable from other cases of Billy fucking up? Especially considering he spent so much time trying to convince everyone that SP was always all about him? Especially when Solara is like, four years old anyway, originating sessions that didn't involve either Jimmy or James?

It's hard imagining James contributing more than a shrug of his shoulders to this song. Jimmy did what he could. I used to stick up for Billy all the time; I even hyped the fuck out of Oceania when it was new, and maintain that it was a pretty good effort. But he deserves the brunt of the criticism for this. It's funny, because I think if we just saw this as the lead single for D4N, people would be a bit more positive (if only just a bit- it's not a great song by any stretch of the imagination) but the fact that it was released in this context subjects it to such a different level of criticism. It proves, doubtlessly, that Billy doesn't fucking get it. His band was fucking special, absolutely incredible, but Solara is lazy as fuck. It pushes no boundaries and has no edge. As others have memorably pointed out, it doesn't even have a riff. It feels not so much like Billy tarnishing his legacy, but openly, purposefully disrespecting it. So yeah, people are going to use their criticisms to stretch the song as thin as possible, to find every problem and overemphasize it, because it feels like a fucking affront to something many of us hold special.

Within a year we'll hear Billy saying that this reunion is proof that he was right to do SP 2.0 without James, because it "didn't make a difference anyway." He's got this sick drive to make it so it's all about him, and there's the rub- Solara and its shittiness is all on him. Fuck this 'reunion.'

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 02:06 AM   #8
fuzzyroes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonUnicorns View Post
Is playing a sustained note really enough to consider Iha in the track?
I dunno... Is that all he really did?

That's kind of my problem with this whole project. It seems like they're doing what KISS did in 1996 with the "Psycho Circus" album. They advertised it as the "FIRST ALBUM WITH THE ORIGINAL BAND IN 20 years!" (or however many years it was)... But as the guitarist Ace Frehley writes in his book, he merely laid down a few parts over 3 or 4 existing songs... And the drummer Peter did the same thing. But it was all the record company needed to hype the thing into oblivion.

Is this what we're essentially getting with Iha? And is Iha really down with this?

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 02:13 AM   #9
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I'd like to think that Iha has more integrity than to just "be there in name only"... But really, I don't hear him doing anything in Solara. There was a 2nd guitar part playing a few sustained notes near the end (that you can barely hear). Is that all James has to offer? or is that all Billy is letting him offer? and in that case, why would James even bother?

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 02:17 AM   #10
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on a side note: *** I apologize for my French-Canadian spelling of group*** total typo.

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 02:40 AM   #11
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ok

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 04:34 AM   #12
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James won't save the day.

Regardless how much he contributed to Lolara, I'm sure it wasn't very different in the past. I mean, Billy did write and record great music in the 90's by himself.

Musically, they used to be able to be an avant-garde band, but with pop music added to the mix. When it comes to lyrics, even the dumbest ones sounded like Billy had something to say. Now, Solara is musically conservative and lyrically impersonal.

In my opinion:

1) Billy is lost. He's been writing music from a rational place, overthinking about what the fans want, what he wants, what he thinks the fans want, what he thinks the general public wants, what is radio friendly.

2) He won't take risks. What was the last time he experimented with his music? I'd say it was with TFE, almost 15 years ago. Even though I think Machina is not the greatest album, even the bad songs on it sounded like he was trying to achieve something else than popularity.

3) He's lost his must. Back in the 90's Billy would be inspired by his personal demons, which were battling depression, suicide, his relationship with his parents / lovers / band mates, his childhood and adolescence, his insecurities - even the more positive lyrics like Tonight Tonight had these bittersweet emotions that would appeal to a broad audience, whilst now his approach sounds very 1 dimensional.

That might be happening because, by writing music about all those demons, he learned how to deal with them and can't genuinely take inspiration on them anymore - Poets of the romantic movement would sabotage their relationships/lifes in order to have something to write about, afraid of losing their muse. Or maybe Billy is just too afraid to write about his real emotions because it could be a one-way road - if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee, as it is emotionally draining.

I will say it doesn't matter who's contributing to Billy's ideas if he isn't able to write confessional music anymore. I also think he still has it, cause he showed us some of it with Ogilala for example.

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 05:21 AM   #13
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Billy is able to write good misic and good riffs. Its just that he doesnt choose the right songs and the right style/ mixing-
Iha hasnt much to say i guess. I always liked the interplay of 2 guitarists- that doesnt happen on solala.

What i fear most is that the other songs on ep1 are likely to sound like solala - instrumentationwise , effectwise.
Has anyone heard anything from billy yet?
I reckon he thinks that this is a four star song.

If zeitgeist , oceania and monuments were not really successful why would you release a song like that then?? I dont get it. Bitter alt rock metal

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 06:29 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brothahi4L View Post

If zeitgeist , oceania and monuments were not really successful why would you release a song like that then??
because you don't give a single shit. the arena tour is what makes them money, and quite obviously they phoned this gimmick in.

I didn't expect Iha to be involved besides showing up to the gigs, let alone that somehow Bully would choose to do what he never did, namely consider any writing input for a track. had he planned to do that,there would have been no need to choose an MTAE outtake.

so this track doesn't change how I see Iha in all of this - as lined up for a final SP paycheck, enjoy venue sizes he will never get a chance to play again in his life otherwise.

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 08:00 AM   #15
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Why do we think James was less involved with Solara than he was with, let's say Ruby? I mean, I'm sure the pumpkins have recorded Billy songs he wrote by himself before, without adding anything very different from the original idea. That's his job as the main songwriter, isn't it?

The problem here is basically because the song they picked is a bad one. If instead of Solara they actually decided to finally record As Rome Burns I'm sure we wouldn't care how old the song was.

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 08:31 AM   #16
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You misunderstand / overestimate what a "main songwriter" does.

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 09:08 AM   #17
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A songwriter writes the music. How a band works on it depends on their dynamics. With the Pumpkins we have songs like Methuselah that the band didn't even know about its existence, or Stumbleine, that is Billy and a guitar and nobody else ... so I'm sure we got great songs in the past that didn't even contribute.

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 09:57 AM   #18
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Idk, every time James Iha tried to "express his voice" either in the smashing pumpkins or his solo stuff it sounded like complete garbage and was insufferably boring to me.

It seems he built his entire career out of staying in the background doing not much of anything. Probably the most successful "keep quiet so people think you're smart" con job.

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 11:06 AM   #19
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I would be happier if all we got was the 2016 plainsong reconciliation, then nothing

This fake ass “reunion” horseshit, this “FIRST SONG WITH 3/4 OF THEM IN LIKE, A LONG TIME” that is embarrassingly lazy trash, this shitting on d’arcy meanwhile crowing about how this summer JEFF SHCRODDR WILL CELEBRATE HIS ACHIEVEMENT ON MELON COLLY, it makes me wanna fucken barf, all of it

We were promised humility, reconciliation, redemption

Instead we got pure cynicism and the most transparently depressing cash grab this “band” has ever done. Sickening

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 12:04 PM   #20
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Honestly same

I have a ticket to see Billy, James, and Jimmy in a few months and I can't be less excited. That's fucked

jesus christ

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 12:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run To Me View Post
We were promised humility, reconciliation, redemption
This is why I was so excited about a real original lineup reunion. It's a shame we got none of this.

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 12:36 PM   #22
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What a shame. I'm still wondering what the fuck Billy is doing. In those interviews after Ogilala, he sounded genuine, like he wanted to make amends, reunite, and go somewhere with the band.

and we got solara. a shitty d-side from a shitty album

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 12:59 PM   #23
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No, because as everyone has said for years over this idiotic “reunion” drama IT DOESN’T MATTER. The original band didn’t affect the sound. SP is the Corgan show, Byrne or Jimmy, Iha or D’arcy.

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:29 PM   #24
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james showed up for the $$$. he did nothing in the studio.

can someone explain how " picture that @jamesihaofficial took" if he's in it?


https://www.instagram.com/p/BjNXQwQB...ashingpumpkins

this is the extent of james's contribution..

Last edited by T&T : 06-10-2018 at 01:38 PM.

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:41 PM   #25
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It doesn't hurt James' reputation at all as far as I'm concerned. Why blames James Iha for anything? The only thing he has done which he had a proactive choice in is to rejoin the band. Whether it was for money or not, it's still a step in making things right with fans and the legacy of the band. He didn't write this piece of shit song that came out. I personally don't believe he played a single note on it. But if he did, it's been obvious he would have no personal say in the mixing or how much he was able to contribute. He probably just showed up and said "OK Billy, what do you want me to do?" I mean, how many years has the guy been in A perfect Circle where he probably just shows up and does whatever Maynard Keenan and Billie HOwer-whoever says for him to do? After the D'arcy debacle there's no reason for James to try and force anything. I mean, would you? If he pisses Billy off it will affect the entire tour and reunion and just end up hurting the fans. Which come to think of it, Corgan is probably using that fact for leverage.

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 02:18 PM   #26
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d.arcy has always been the one to protest and contest.

james was probably always a yesman
but since he was getting d/arcy pussy he was her yesman...

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 02:21 PM   #27
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I like james

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 02:36 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T&T View Post
d.arcy has always been the one to protest and contest.

james was probably always a yesman
but since he was getting d/arcy pussy he was her yesman...
Such a dumb comment

D’arcy isn’t the magic bullet

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 03:26 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T&T View Post
james showed up for the $$$. he did nothing in the studio.

can someone explain how " picture that @jamesihaofficial took" if he's in it?


https://www.instagram.com/p/BjNXQwQB...ashingpumpkins

this is the extent of james's contribution..
How about a remote or delayed release to be able for James to be part in the photograph. That could also explain why there's more to see from the ceiling than from the band. His right hand doesn't show up.

..if the big ceiling wasn't a mean message to D'arcy that she could hang now from the ceiling like a carrot, which Billy's finger seemed to gesture.

 
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Old 06-10-2018, 03:31 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T&T View Post
d.arcy has always been the one to protest and contest.

james was probably always a yesman
but since he was getting d/arcy pussy he was her yesman...
They officially parted 1992. Though Richard Patrick told, she and Kerry Brown had an open relationship, which allowed him to have an affair with her in 1998. But at that time it was already clear that they were divorcing.

Last edited by Corgan's Bluff : 06-10-2018 at 04:01 PM.

 
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