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Old 05-15-2021, 08:23 PM   #91
Oklahoma Sexual
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SP has sold around the same amount of records as The Cure and they are in. It’s not just about sales.

SP will get in, but likely in a slower year. Those “two huge albums” were immensely influential to a generation of musicians. That’s the same argument people are making for Devo to get in and they have just one platinum album and one gold album.

People on this forum that think SP will never get in are just factoring in the bad taste many of us have here from Billy’s past shitty behavior. Most people don’t know or care about post 2000’s SP but have strong nostalgic feelings for Today, Disarm, BWBW, Zero, and Tonight Tonight.

Once the smoke fades and people can look at the impact SP had on a generation without Billy’s mouth tainting it, it’s easier for the voters to put them in.


 
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Old 05-15-2021, 08:28 PM   #92
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SP has sold around the same amount of records as The Cure and they are in. It’s not just about sales.

SP will get in, but likely in a slower year. Those “two huge albums” were immensely influential to a generation of musicians. That’s the same argument people are making for Devo to get in and they have just one platinum album and one gold album.

People on this forum that think SP will never get in are just factoring in the bad taste many of us have here from Billy’s past shitty behavior. Most people don’t know or care about post 2000’s SP but have strong nostalgic feelings for Today, Disarm, BWBW, Zero, and Tonight Tonight.

Once the smoke fades and people can look at the impact SP had on a generation without Billy’s mouth tainting it, it’s easier for the voters to put them in.

 
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Old 05-15-2021, 09:55 PM   #93
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You’re truly in denial about the status of the Foo Fighters but k
No, I’m fully aware of their status. I just think it’s undeserved.

 
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Old 05-15-2021, 10:05 PM   #94
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SP will never be in the HoF and do not deserve it. They released two huge albums. So did Collective Soul.
They do deserve it and that’s a ridiculous take. Siamese Dream is almost universally regarded as possibly the best album of the 90’s. Even from people that will otherwise hate on Corgan. Mellon Collie was iconic. They were one of the biggest bands of the era and they captured the zeitgeist far more than the FF’s or Trent ever have. Both those bands have had more continued success than SP, yes. But they never peaked at the same height as SP in 1995/1996.

 
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Old 05-15-2021, 11:41 PM   #95
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We need to chill on the "2 good albums" stuff too. The reissues have been a major victory for the band, showcasing that SP had about 3 times as much great material as had previously been released in any formal capacity, some of my favorite SP material ever I've discovered on the reissues. I don't know how popular those reissues were but they were awesome.

 
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Old 05-16-2021, 02:14 AM   #96
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They did focus on pre-90s music scene, didn’t they? the blues up to the ‘70s-‘80s.
That's true, with a big focus on Albini and Big Black which I get as he produced In Utero. Still, it seems like professional jealousy not to mention SP on that episode. If someone who was looking to learn about the Chicago music scene was watching Sonic Highways they would come away from that show thinking Big Black and Naked Ray Gun were more integral to Chicago than SP, and that's just a Dave Grohl and Steve Albini fantasy.

 
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Old 05-16-2021, 03:02 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Spaceboy88 View Post
Once the smoke fades and people can look at the impact SP had on a generation without Billy’s mouth tainting it, it’s easier for the voters to put them in.
Bill's mouth is still running off though

 
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Old 05-16-2021, 05:07 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by GreenDogGlynis View Post
That's true, with a big focus on Albini and Big Black which I get as he produced In Utero. Still, it seems like professional jealousy not to mention SP on that episode. If someone who was looking to learn about the Chicago music scene was watching Sonic Highways they would come away from that show thinking Big Black and Naked Ray Gun were more integral to Chicago than SP, and that's just a Dave Grohl and Steve Albini fantasy.
True, I don't think Dave was particularly eager to have Billiam sporting a Zuzu baseball cap babbling about "holding the white flag on indie island" and other classic Billiam nonsense. All while trying to get his latest reverend signature nicely into frame.

Can't say i blame Dave.

via Gfycat


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Old 05-16-2021, 08:33 AM   #99
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Bill's mouth is still running off though
Is it really though? He’s been pretty quiet for a while now. He’ll occasionally make passive aggressive comments about being disrespected on Instagram, but shit-talking contemporaries that he’s immensely jealous of hasn’t happened in quite some time.

 
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Old 05-16-2021, 09:51 AM   #100
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LEARNIN' TO SUCCCK AGGHAAIINN

 
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Old 05-16-2021, 11:26 AM   #101
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who cares?

 
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Old 05-16-2021, 01:59 PM   #102
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Yeah 2 great albums ...in the alternative sector..... their influence on todaxs musician is brutally overrated...

 
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Old 05-16-2021, 05:26 PM   #103
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SP is 100% going into the R&RHoF... how is this even a conversation? They are going to run out of acts to put in eventually.

One of the primary things they care about is influence: SP influenced all the emo shit of the 2000s. I can't believe we're even questioning SP when most of those bands (Fall Out Boy, Panic, MCR, etc) will most likely get in (as fucked up as that may be).

The only reason I care about the Rock Hall is cause Todd Rundgren finally got in, and that dude basically wrote the playbook on how not to get in.

SP will probably start appearing as nominees in 5 years and be inducted within 20. They are a top 5 '90s band for fuck's sake. This is when the reunion with D'Arcy will happen, even if it's just Bullet and 1979.

 
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Old 05-16-2021, 11:42 PM   #104
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This thread has been probably the most non-dysfunctional and coherent thread netphoria has had in the past twenty years. There’s actual conversation, well thought out statements and pure discussion without anyone throwing a tantrum, making fun or bullying anyone, or using terms like poopie, balls, or cooter, and nary an insult of anyone’s mom or dad. Back in the day someone would have posted a trick link to the goatse guy by now. Well done netphoria! This thread is HOF worthy!
Shut up ya big stinky butthole!

 
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Old 05-17-2021, 03:14 AM   #105
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The only reason I care about the Rock Hall is cause Todd Rundgren finally got in, and that dude basically wrote the playbook on how not to get in.
wow, that sounds like a very good reason to care about the hall thing.

 
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Old 05-18-2021, 11:42 PM   #106
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Default I'll try to keep it short since this isn't the first time I've mentioned this

Trent Reznor has been relevant within the last 20 years and they weren't even letting him in until he gave that speech inducting the Cure. It raised his profile among the hordes of blues and pop musicians who make up the Rock HoF membership—who otherwise wouldn't understand or care about him.

Years ago, I was looking at the newly eligible inductees for the pumpkins' 2016 class. IMO, their biggest competition was Alice in Chains, and I remarked (incorrectly) on some forum that SP was an eventual shoe-in. For many years, the Rock Hall's inductees were significantly made up of newly eligible members. Then right around the time the grunge era became eligible, they started allowing in only 1 new band a year. If you weren't a Green Day or a Nirvana in terms of influence and extended success, you weren't getting in. It remains like this today for the "grunge era" bands. 2016, 2018 and 2020 saw zero new inductees except for Notorious B.I.G. in 2020, who only released two albums, neither of which were rock. The truth is they'd rather induct Cat Stevens and Janet Jackson than let The Smashing Pumpkins in.

Of course it doesn't hurt that Billy can be quite immodest, and plenty of people find him off-putting. But it's mostly not about Billy or TSP on this issue.

Last edited by selection7 : 05-19-2021 at 12:04 AM.

 
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Old 05-18-2021, 11:47 PM   #107
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I noticed a little trivia as I was looking at the Rock hall inductees from 2016. Had they inducted the pumpkins, that year's inductees would've been Cheap Trick, The Smashing Pumpkins, and Chicago... all from Chicago, and Steve Miller cut his teeth in Chicago before he formed The Steve Miller band (in San Francisco).

I remember Billy didn't seem to mind too much not getting inducted that year just because Cheap Trick finally did, FWIW.

 
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Old 05-19-2021, 12:40 AM   #108
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That was too short. Can you try the long version?

 
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Old 05-19-2021, 01:02 AM   #109
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literally every band who's sold more than 100 records since 1982 is in this fucking "hall o fame"

long live the MIGHTY SP

 
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Old 05-19-2021, 01:02 AM   #110
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4 real tho someone on this "panel" for sure has it out for him big time

 
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Old 05-19-2021, 01:02 AM   #111
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& that is a Goldberg PROMISE

 
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Old 05-19-2021, 08:45 AM   #112
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why do we care about the HoF?

 
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Old 05-19-2021, 10:27 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Spaceboy88 View Post
SP has sold around the same amount of records as The Cure
What's your source for this? Nielsen Soundscan says SP are at like 13 mil us/can album sales. Billboard puts them around 20mil but they're not adjusting MCIS' numbers.

The Cure has Foo Fighters level of sales with 30 mil.

 
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Old 05-19-2021, 04:07 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by T&T View Post
why do we care about the HoF?
dumb rock fans love creating false heirarchical systems

 
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Old 05-19-2021, 04:44 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
Great drummer and his drumming in SDRE was great. The FF sounded the best live from 1995-1996 when Goldsmith was in the band.

His new band (https://assertion.bandcamp.com/album/intermission) >>>





 
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Old 05-19-2021, 04:50 PM   #116
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LP2 is one of my fave albums all time, largely b/c of the drumming

Haven’t followed him since SDRE and whatever he did with foos. Where should i start

 
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Old 05-19-2021, 05:10 PM   #117
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if you love drums wait until you learn about vibraphones

 
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Old 05-20-2021, 04:19 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by AveryLoren View Post
What's your source for this? Nielsen Soundscan says SP are at like 13 mil us/can album sales. Billboard puts them around 20mil but they're not adjusting MCIS' numbers.

The Cure has Foo Fighters level of sales with 30 mil.
Jesus. SP has sold 30 million worldwide, the same amount as the Cure.

 
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Old 05-21-2021, 01:09 AM   #119
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Edit: plus, they have no contenders.
I think this is a biggggg piece of it.

The 90s bands had to have somebody eventually step up to the arena stage. And Foo consistently put out at least one big single from each album then could bring on some guest big names and fill stages for three hours with songs that are really hard to dislike. It's damn hard to not love "Everlong", still.

But with all of the other bands falling apart/overdosing, somebody had to power through and keep selling records. And the nice guy Dave Grohl with the street cred of punk rock background into Nirvana makes him the perfect guy to do just that.

One other thought - I think that because of this string of "the last album had one good song" paired with big label money, they could do little gimmicky things to make the next album exciting even if the music wasn't fully so - double record with one electric one acoustic! Documentary about little venues! Recording in Dave's garage and you get a piece of the actual tape when you buy the album!

Good thread, good read, good minute to rewind and look back at the Foo discography on Wikipedia to do some play by play comparisons.

For shits and giggles, how about we do a side by side of their albums?


------------------------------------
Gish vs S/T: Same-ish production value. Dave had Nirvana to ride on, SP just had live shows and solid backing of Virgin once signed, but nothing prior to that. Gish sells 700k and S/T sells 1.4 million.

Siamese Dream vs Colour and the Shape: Biggest albums by both bands. Yet, Siamese Dream whips it wholehandedly. I think even as a SP Messageboard in 2021 guy, that's a safe statement. Siamese is just so much deeper, richer. Siamese sells 4.9 million and Colour sells 2.3 million.

MCIS vs Nothing Left to Lose: Perfect summary of this ridiculous exercise that I'm already questioning. Billy took a huge creative risk on Mellon Collie and Dave polished the hell out of Colour and put out "Learn to Fly". 'Nothing' is great, but it's miles away from Mellon Collie in terms of level of devotion from folks on the street today. Nobody ever says how Nothing turned them onto music and made them a music fan. My favorite album by both bands. MCIS sells 4.9 million and Nothing sells 1.3 million.

Adore vs One by One: Again, Billy goes out on a limb, Dave drills down into the same sound. Dave pulls out a few more singles that still are in setlists today, being played at the White House, etc. Billy puts out an album that most readers of this thread can sing 80% of the words to because it means something deeply to them. Granted, it's an SP messageboard, but still - Adore, by a mile. Adore sells 1.2 million and One by One sells 1.4 million.

Machina vs In Your Honor: Dave goes out on a limb here, but puts out a double CD that has one good song on it and 19 others that are WHOLLY forgettable. I remember being excited for In Your Honor, but it's just not good. I put it on earlier as I started writing this thread, and the acoustic album is even worse than the back half of the electric one. Machina is almost as long as a double album, rammed onto one 74 minute CD. And while it's bloated, it's got some great gems in there. Machina sells 607k and Honor sells 1.5 million. (That low Machina sales number surprised me.)

Zeitgeist vs Echoes, Silence, Patience and Grace: Somewhat similar here, both released in 2007. Bloated rock albums that really don't go anywhere or have anything truly original to say, when you strip away whatever degree of sentimentality I've got for "Stellar" and the optimism I scrounged up when my band reunited in 2007. Zeit sells 426k and Echoes does 915k. (Wish I knew what the average number of copies of Zeit per SP fan sold were - I know I ended up buying like 3?)

Oceania vs Wasting Light: Hmm. Not a lot to compare here. Oceania is Billy and Bam Bam and Co. and Dave gets Smear back, hits the garage, and writes an amazing album. Pretty stark comparison here, actually. One where I would handily give it to Foo. Wasting Light showed me that Dave can still do an album as solid as the first three. Oceania does 102k and Wasting Light does 602k.

Monuments vs Sonic Highways: Honestly haven't ever listened to Sonic Highways, despite watching a good chunk of the episodes of the show on HBO. Again, BC had nothing budgetary wise to help Monuments get seen/heard the way that Sonic Highways did. But is the quality of the songs THAT different behind the two? Sales figures drop off here.

SAOSBV1LPNPNFNS vs Concrete and Gold: Haven't ever done Concrete in full - but I can say that I'm NOT into that "The Sky is a Neighborhood" song that still shows up sometimes on the radio. Really don't think that these two are that different quality-wise.

Cyr vs Medicine at Midnight: Weirdly, this is kind of where this side by side thing started in my brain. When "Cyr" came out around the same time as "Shame Shame" it seemed like both bands were doing something more electronic-y and experimental. Difference there? SP had all of Adore, had a solid single with "Eye" and had done it before. For Dave, it seemed like it was a "well, we haven't attempted that yet" type deal. I've only listened to Medicine all the way thru once, which I guess is more than I can say for Cyr, despite the fact that I own Cyr; thing is just too damn long and too samey-samey.
----------------------------------------------------

Man, long post. Interesting mental exercise for me, sorry you had to sit through that.

Moral of the Story: SP needs to get inducted. My dad's favorite band are the Moody Blues, and they got dogged for years. I think I can see the same happening with Pumpkins. It's gonna be a minute before they get the recognition they deserve.

But by then, maybe there will have been enough time for the BC/Darcy thing to cool off, they can get the four of them on the stage together, icy hearts can melt with a warm rendition of Bullet and then maybe we'll get a little tour with the original four?

 
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Old 05-21-2021, 03:15 AM   #120
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if you love drums wait until you learn about vibraphones
mike garson the greatest drummer of all times

 
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