Machina / NK Analysis Teaser

[Nachtkabarett]

A slight teaser of what's to come in the first launch:

Teaser 1

Teaser 2

Coming Soon...

Dozens of pages of material are done and ready to launch. The first incarnation will launch within the next couple of months. This will continue to expand with future Nachtkabarett updates.

Thought I'd share this for the 2% who actually care. I'll let you all know when the site is launched; I just felt like sharing in the meantime.

- Brad

[Slurpee]

Billy, I blame you for this.

[Caine Walker]

this guy also does stuff for marilyn manson. oh good.

[T&T]

I'll say thanks!!!!!

[exactlythesame]

I remember when you came here asking for info on Machina and subsequently getting shot down because no one one care.

[slunken]

I'll say thanks too. I was just checking the NK site last week to see if anything had been added.

[Pizza Club]

Site would be better if ChristJesus would have done it.

[rolmos]

Paradoxa Emblemata !

[???]

i'm very excited about this. great work nk.

[topleybird]

Based solely on those screenshots (which quite possibly just don't accurately reflect the full content), it looks like you are essentially annotating the artwork, explaining what it means in an alchemical sense or what its historical referents are, without using that to actually analyze Machina. Do the articles eventually get in to what the artwork means for the album? Like if I read the full article about the Try, Try, Try single, would it eventually get around to talking about how the artwork relates to the song?

[porkfried]

What a big waste of time. Man, seriously?

All writings, images and content © 2004-2008 Nick Kushner

You can't copyright that big ass promotional image of SP on the coming soon page.

[slunken]

y'know as much as everyone is boo-hooing about this it's the most exciting thing i've read on this board in about 3 weeks knowhatimean? at least it's not another proposal or what if...

[Phoenix Down]

some of you guys are real assholes.

Thanks for the update, NK.

[zPolishBloodz]

Yeah I agree with whatever ChristJesus said..

Nice site by the way!

[slunken]

Originally Posted by zPolishBloodz

Yeah I agree with whatever ChristJesus said..

yea whatever that was i totally agree

[Slurpee]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Down

some of you guys are real assholes.

Better than being a poseur douche.

[slunken]

Originally Posted by Nachtkabarett

. The first incarnation will launch within the next couple of months.

http://estb.msn.com/i/48/22A73010EA2...53C7BB334C.gif

scaaaaaaaaaaary

[Reggaeluv2000]

looks semi interesting....

[IWishIWasBlank]

but schtooputt.

(No really, it does look interesting.)

[epinson]

Looks pretty cool.

[Nachtkabarett]

Originally Posted by rolmos

Paradoxa Emblemata!

Dionysus A Freher’s work is but a miniscule amount of the occult and alchemical references drawn upon. While the source of the Hermetic maxim, “It is finished when seven are one”, and three or four other images central to the Machina concept derive from those plates, there are literally countless dozens of direct references, parallels and sources which have gone –for eight years- almost completely unnoticed. Not to mention the primary source still goes unmentioned…but that’s significantly flushed out in our work, and becomes quite obvious upon discovery.

Originally Posted by topleybird

Based solely on those screenshots (which quite possibly just don't accurately reflect the full content), it looks like you are essentially annotating the artwork, explaining what it means in an alchemical sense or what its historical referents are, without using that to actually analyze Machina. Do the articles eventually get in to what the artwork means for the album? Like if I read the full article about the Try, Try, Try single, would it eventually get around to talking about how the artwork relates to the song?

This article has been handled like all of the work on The NACHTKABARETT; which is that our emphasis is on the alchemical, the occult, and the otherwise esoteric. My job is not to hold anyone’s hand, or force my position upon them. I take a step back, and make observances based on provable, direct connections. By providing people with the framework to properly recognize the intention, meaning and origin of the artist’s usage of any given symbol, you set them up with the knowledge and insight to make their own informed decision about the “Machina Mystery”. It would be arrogant, counter productive and downright spiteful for me to try and limit the possible interpretations of an artist’s intentions; given all that I have done was only possible via the free marketplace of ideas.

On another note, the songs and the artwork are not necessarily always “connected”, per say. Alchemy is a poetic language told through symbolism and metaphor, and stands on it own, ripe for interpretation. That’s not to say that there aren’t direct connections (because there are) as several plates quite evidently take inspiration (or even directly quote) lyrics from particular songs within them - and those are most certainly brought to the discussion. I think it’d be unfair to compare a pelican and phoenix to the lyrics in Try, Try, Try – and if I were to do so, those connections would be murky and indirect at best. The NACHTKABARETT prefers testable, evident parallels, and we supply dozens of those within the articles.

The solution to the Machina Mystery isn’t an answer – it’s a question.

Originally Posted by ChristJesus

"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine..." Matthew 7:6

Matthew always was a bit of a dick. Irrelevant to the discussion, but I always preferred Mark; he seemed a little more earnest in Jesus' teachings, and less of a drama queen. But for those which have eyes to see, and see not and have ears to hear, and hear not, the articles will go without notice or care. It’s perfectly fine to give truffles to swine, only to have them feed upon the wrapper. Those who find contentment -even in ignorance- it is not your or my place to judge them, for (supposedly), that is the province of one and one alone.

The NACHTKABARETT has always had that internal struggle, debating whether or not it is morally prudent to share lofty ideas with a great number of people who will either not care, or dilute and debase our intentions. What Nick and I have learned over the years is that you cannot hold that smug authority over someone else. What an unnecessary baggage to inflict upon yourself. To those who don’t care or can’t understand, it’ll make no difference whether or not we release this.
Conversely, we do this for the fans that have genuine interest in the album, and want to see another perspective. With any luck, doing so helps to build their understanding of certain erudite concepts, so that they may achieve a greater understanding of it, on their own.

Being esoteric and alchemically inclined doesn’t mean one has to be morally and intellectually condescending to others. That’s just low, and reflects poorly on the person who presupposes themselves as superior.

A final note (and the only one I originally intended to make) – thank you kindly to all of you who have given general interest and positive feedback; your enthusiasm keeps me energized in my endeavors.

[???]

nk does your work cover stuff like astrological and numerological symbolism. i noticed a couple of things which may be of interest to you; not necessarily related directly to machina, but still discussion worthy

[Nachtkabarett]

Originally Posted by ???

nk does your work cover stuff like astrological and numerological symbolism. i noticed a couple of things which may be of interest to you; not necessarily related directly to machina, but still discussion worthy

Indeed it does. Astrological symbols were also of importance to the alchemists, as they used the planetary symbols interchangeably to denote particular elements (eg, Sol (The Sun) as Gold; Luna (The Moon) as Silver). As such, those symbols are brought up in discussion quite frequently; especially as they coincide with the central maxim of "it is finished when seven are one", which is a symbol directly composed of the union of the original seven planetary/astrological symbols. As it stands in this launch, the purpose of numbers is more so brought up as it relates to Vasily Kafanov's plates, usually in the guise of relating back to other hermetic maxims that they infer, or if they are used with purpose (such as the transcendent number of perfection that is 7).

I know the interest in numerology is there, so I would like to make an article on just the numerology itself –with everything else stripped away- for a future update.

Based upon the reactions to the launch, I’m going to see what people are most cl******g for next, and I’ll probably handle them on a priority and interest basis. Other future updates will feature the GATMOG episodes, more websites which were around at the time such as Panopticon, the Paracell Corporation, etc (The initial launch also has two sites discussed in great detail – blackwings.org and likepaincomefromheaven.com), and a host of other subjects.

Nothing is ever final on the NK. I do look at the reaction of the public, and if more clarification is needed on certain terms, or they want even more material about a particular plate or concept, I’m more than happy to oblige and amend the article.

For this launch, the centerpiece is most definitely all of the main plates contained in the album booklet (along with several – but not all (yet)) of the lithographs, etchings, and promotional images released during that era as well.

[???]

awesome, i think you're doing a really amazing thing here.


but there's one thing that i want to know above all else: obviously VK drew the album artwork, but the overall alchemy theme was no doubt billy's idea- what is the ultimate significance of the machina concept, and how the hell did billy (presumably) gain such a deep knowledge of it to begin with? obviously he is probably THE most 'alchemically-inclined' musician out there and symbolism has been used consistently throughout his career, from the gish 'sacred heart' to the Saturn tshirt he's been wearing this year being related to the number 8 etc etc. i'm no expert on any of this, but what would it mean if billy was somehow secretly aligned with alchemical wisdom? he's been a busy guy since his teens, where'd he find the time to learn all this without ever discussing it publically?

maybe i'm way off but there's something fishy about it. the auric energy and symbolism surrounding bc and sp is unparalleled by another band, if not any other person or group, imo.

[suncrashesdown]

Originally Posted by ???

the auric energy and symbolism surrounding bc and sp is unparalleled by another band, if not any other person or group, imo.

this sentence made me fall out of my chair

[Nachtkabarett]

Originally Posted by ???

awesome, i think you're doing a really amazing thing here.

but there's one thing that i want to know above all else: obviously VK drew the album artwork, but the overall alchemy theme was no doubt billy's idea- what is the ultimate significance of the machina concept, and how the hell did billy (presumably) gain such a deep knowledge of it to begin with? obviously he is probably THE most 'alchemically-inclined' musician out there and symbolism has been used consistently throughout his career, from the gish 'sacred heart' to the Saturn tshirt he's been wearing this year being related to the number 8 etc etc. i'm no expert on any of this, but what would it mean if billy was somehow secretly aligned with alchemical wisdom? he's been a busy guy since his teens, where'd he find the time to learn all this without ever discussing it publically?

maybe i'm way off but there's something fishy about it. the auric energy and symbolism surrounding bc and sp is unparalleled by another band, if not any other person or group, imo.

I wholeheartedly agree that Billy was quite precise and articulate in his direction for the album, both in concept and in its artistic framework, and that he employed the talent of Kafanov to help illustrate many of his ideas.

Obviously I cannot speak with any authority about how he came across the knowledge that he did, but it’s always fun to speculate once in a blue moon. I imagine he gathered the knowledge about alchemy and other esoteric subjects just the same as anyone else would – through self discovery, a curious nature, possibly prolific reading, and always being receptive to new ideas and perspectives. Another way to further your own gnosis is to network with others, learning from them their own paths and pursuits. Additionally, open discussion and argument helps refine and solidify your own knowledge and perspective on just about any subject.

I also agree with you that theological symbolism has been used by Billy consistently throughout the years (Just take a look at Gish’s “Siva” for a blatant Hinduism reference to the deity of the same name [which incidentally, is also present in one of the plates of Machina]).

I know this will probably piss off a lot of Smashing Pumpkins fans, but Billy Corgan and Marilyn Manson used to be somewhat close, and they still seem to have a great deal of respect for each other. Billy is cited as a consultant for Manson’s Mechanical Animals, and I find it to be no surprise that Manson’s “Holy Wood” and SP’s “Machina” were released in 2000; both extensively drawing from the same sources and occult principles. Both Billy and Manson have historically shown an extensive knowledge and history of association with these principles.

I almost picture (with a certain level of jest), the two of them as being book buddies during the conceptual period of Machina and Holy Wood. As everyone will eventually see, both used the same primary, secondary, and tertiary sources and materials, that coincidence is almost certainly out of the question. I have no doubt in my mind that they both had an influence on each other, and that this is at least partially reflected in what they would go on to do.

Neither artist pilfered from each other, but I have no doubt that they both shared a love of similar materials and subjects, and this may have been one of the cornerstones of their friendship during this period. Both albums coincided with a 2000 release, and both albums use identical symbols on a number of occasions.

The two of them have preformed together, and both artists have on numerous occasions spoken favorably of each other; defending their art, message and intentions.

Take a look at the Holy Wood artwork sometime – all the Paradoxa Emblemata symbols are shared between both artists. They both also had a great deal of interest in the tarot (Billy Corgan hosting several tarot cards from Crowley’s “Thoth” deck on his website for a period of time in a gallery), and Manson himself redesigned and reinterpreted several of the cards for Holy Wood’s release. Similarly, other topics such as astrology, numerology and transcendence were openly and covertly evoked in both albums.

A future NK update will actually go into vivid detail the innumerable parallels between the albums, characters, message, etc…

Billy Corgan and Manson obviously have different goals and intentions and go about their music in very different ways, and their messages are not always congruent, but they seem to share a great deal of love in the same subjects, and I wouldn’t at all be surprised if they both shared material or interests with each other at some point.

Irrelevantly, I take this all very seriously – the symbol denoting “It is finished when seven are one” is tattooed on my body both out of the alchemical reference and purpose, as well as a permanent tribute to SP and MM. Which is why I’m being very precise in my work…I’d like to think Billy could look upon it favorably, just as Manson does with our material on his work.

EDIT - PS: Sorry if my responses are delayed...as it stands I'm trying to wrap up Plate XI, "The I of the Radio", which has been exhausting, to say the least.

[topleybird]

Originally Posted by Nachtkabarett

This article has been handled like all of the work on The NACHTKABARETT; which is that our emphasis is on the alchemical, the occult, and the otherwise esoteric. My job is not to hold anyone’s hand, or force my position upon them.

Oooooooooooookay. Sorry I'm unfamiliar with the work on The NACHTKABARETT! It sounds like your article has little to do, then, with the album as a piece of music, but is more an annotated guide to the promotional artwork included with that album. I wasn't asking about any hand-holding; I was asking if you were addressing the music or the "story," whatever story there may be. I am clear now that you are not, except when lyrics are printed within the artwork.

On another note, the songs and the artwork are not necessarily always “connected”, per say.

Whoa dude, let go of my hand already! Not in your job description! Also: "per se."

[T&T]

oh, thanks.

warsaw can you post my machina mystery posts?

[Nachtkabarett]

Originally Posted by topleybird

Oooooooooooookay. Sorry I'm unfamiliar with the work on The NACHTKABARETT! It sounds like your article has little to do, then, with the album as a piece of music."

That is correct. The music is beyond description for me. It stirs in me sentiments that I cannot put to words.

[???]

out of curiosity, how old are you nk?