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07-27-2019, 11:01 AM | #361 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 3,862
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What made it was the reference to 4 minutes of audio nobody on this forum has or wants access to.
For the record I have a ton of home recordings better than SP 3.0 and I just keep it in a vault. People say it's the best work I've ever done and it's just sat there. |
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07-27-2019, 12:38 PM | #362 |
Apocalyptic Poster
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The music would be so much better if they’d just jam
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07-27-2019, 02:02 PM | #363 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: A very stable individual
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I think this is a lot of the problem with rock music today. None of it really sounds like a band in the room anymore. I like what METZ are doing as they have a raw In Utero type sound to their music. But most rock music today, It's all piecemeal production / editing / splicing together people who aren't even in the same room nor played together at the same time. It sounds all too sterile and lifeless. A lot of the edge is lost.
Pumpkins were all about not playing to a click, but now they're slaves to it. The same happened to Korn around the time of Issues. I ain't a huge fan of Korn, but I'm big enough into music to hear that there was a huge change with them and a lot of that came from playing to a click and not recording together in a room anymore. Their original drummer would come out later and say the very same exact thing. If Billy and co. can get together to rehearse for a tour, then get together and jam out some frigging tracks. Even if the tracks were written by Billy separately and he just got some of the structure somewhat down, it would still benefit to bring the guys in to actually perform these songs first before just recording parts alone. A lots of new ideas and changes can come out of the jamming environment and help take the song up a notch. It's not the greatest song, but Solara developed a bit with James actually there on guitar. But you got sterile, isolated recordings that are then overproduced and glossed up to the point of sounding inhuman. |
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07-27-2019, 02:15 PM | #364 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: SP, Sao Paulo - Brazil
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But that's what they did. They demoed 20+ songs together Billy's now working on them and writing more songs along the process.
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07-27-2019, 02:53 PM | #365 |
Apocalyptic Poster
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It doesn't sound like James nor Jeff were even in the studio. Just sounds like Billy showed some song ideas he recorded alone. Jimmy just sat there and was like, "Yea, that's cool. That needs work. That sucks." And when it does come time to record them, they won't be playing them live together. Each member will come in on their free time and perform their parts alone.
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07-28-2019, 12:36 AM | #366 |
dumb
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07-28-2019, 04:03 AM | #367 | ||
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: SP, Sao Paulo - Brazil
Posts: 4,846
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Quote:
Quote:
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07-28-2019, 04:08 AM | #368 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: SP, Sao Paulo - Brazil
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07-28-2019, 08:58 AM | #369 |
Apocalyptic Poster
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Funny how the year started out with: the 3 of us are going back to the studio to record organically together, we have 30 songs! And 6 months later Billy's deconstructed everything, can't decide on format or songlist, obsessed with modern process, and is tinkering away by himself without assistance with minimal input from Jimmy and James.
He needs a producer or voice of reason to guide his impulses. |
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07-28-2019, 10:09 AM | #370 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Travelling between Ukraine and Russia
Posts: 5,305
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There's no budget for a good producer anymore with this decline of record sales...
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07-28-2019, 10:12 AM | #371 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: SP, Sao Paulo - Brazil
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They did exactly that tho, they recorded/worked on a bunch of songs together, and now Billy is revisiting them. Wasn't that how they always worked in general? With Billy revisiting e re-recording stuff? I only hope they had a producer working with them this time.
I wished James could produce their album. He'd shameless go for the traditional pumpkins sound. |
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07-29-2019, 04:27 AM | #372 |
Apocalyptic Poster
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Is he working with pre-recorded Jimmy tracks? If so then it would be possible for him to edit arrangements and so on. Might interfere with the "flow" of the drums, but if Shiny 1 is anything to go by, there's a lot of repeated sections and patterns in this era's songs.
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07-29-2019, 10:44 AM | #373 |
Demi-God
Posts: 494
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He's not wrong though with the need for space and more standout moments.
Lots of the post-2000 songs have felt really rushed, like say a Doomsday Clock. Verse right into chorus. 4 bars of intro riff, back into verse into rushed chorus. Not a lot of guitar solos or the weird meandering slow down sections they used to put into their songs. So if he's really critically looking at the way he's writing songs for this album, it might be a good thing. I'd rather have the Doubting Billy who wants to get it right but isn't sure how than the All-Knowing Billy who has 1 jillion platinum albums and you can fuck off if you don't like what he's doing. |
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07-29-2019, 11:06 AM | #374 |
Minion of Satan
Location: the institute
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he needs some kind of deadline though, otherwise it will just spiral
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07-29-2019, 09:51 PM | #375 |
Apocalyptic Poster
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The crazy thing is Billy could just release rough demos all online right now and it would likely sell more to SP fans who wanna hear unpolished SP insteaded of polished turds.. but yet this production billshit will drag on for another 6 months.
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07-30-2019, 05:47 AM | #376 |
Apocalyptic Poster
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He should really be working with Butch / Flood / Alan Moulder if he wants to recapture that spark. He's got the old band back together (to a point), so why not the backroom guys as well?
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07-30-2019, 06:04 AM | #377 |
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07-30-2019, 07:09 AM | #378 |
dumb
Location: $8.6 million embezzled funds
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lol
Butch didn't seem....pissed off or anything in that SD retrospective interview |
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07-30-2019, 01:28 PM | #379 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: SP, Sao Paulo - Brazil
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07-30-2019, 06:10 PM | #380 |
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Ive said it before- Billy’s best songs were the ones he wrote on the fly, last minute, in his bedroom at 6am, during jam sessions, with little overkill and as simple as possible. etc. When he over thinks, over produces, adds layers, over orchestrates, the songs , and albums, aren’t as great. Unfortunately he sounds like he’s over thinking and overproducing again. Which doesn’t bode well.
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07-30-2019, 07:03 PM | #381 |
BOTTLEG ILLEGAL
Location: I'm faced with so many changes that I just might change my face
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lots of his best material is stuff that is very intricate, stuff like porcelina, rocket - lots of moving parts
the notion that his best songs are the ones he wrote in an hour watching regis and cathy lee is kind of ridiculous imo. yes i love some of those songs, but he clearly thrives when he has good producers helping him flesh out his ideas and adding layers. yes now he sucks at it and adds stuff he should and has no direction, but it's not the process killing the songs necessarily. it wasn't like that before |
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07-30-2019, 08:04 PM | #382 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: SP, Sao Paulo - Brazil
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I think his best songs are the good ones. When he doesn't work good songs they are bad.
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07-31-2019, 01:27 AM | #383 |
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Majority of his earlier stuff was under produced, or minimally tinkered with/evolved. Live takes (Starla with sirens in back ground), 1979 last minute addition, AOI last minute, 33, zero, etc done in his home studio and final product ended up very similar. Porcelina, came out of jam sessions and didn’t stray much from original ideas. Contrast that with the change in 99-2000 as highlighted by machina (derived from versions pre arising tour ) and you can see the over productions effect in and on his songs. Yes, butch vig produced and layered on the final product, on SD, that’s not what I mean. When he doubts, when he pushes song further and further from it’s original incarnation, it tends to get muddier, dense, and not as “pure” and well, “successful “. Think the last three albums, where he pushed and twisted and tinkered way too much with the songs, ending in an inferior product, imho. Maybe you like that. Matt walker sessions (ransom soundtrack) which was just a jam session shows this. A lot of the gravity demos were rough tracks done during touring that they put down on tape - but held true to final product. When he over thinks things, it goes sour. He’s not trusting his talent emotion and subconscious. That’s what made him who he is. He’s chasing things too much, over thinking, analyzing things, which to me, isn’t his smartest approach. As proven last three albums. You can even argue zwan- before album was great music, energy and better product-album itself was forced and over thought. Compare. I can guarantee you that he didn’t spend one twentieth as much time thinking and forcing and pushing any song on the pastichio medley as he does the “new” songs and hey, honestly which are “better” - which would you prefer as a product? Plus I don’t like him scheduling Monday to force write a song, Tuesday to force a catchy riff and figure out a bridge, and then sitting in a room with the door shut until a song is constructed. That’s not rock and roll. You can’t have an artist schedule the creation of a masterpiece, it’s not conducive to the imagination or the creative spark. Painters don’t s hedule creativity - that’s what he’s doing now, and that’s why songs are flat. He should be jamming with jimmy and James and see what happens- organically and creatively- not schedule every minute part of the songs production with its sole purpose to appeal to certain customers and demographics and then get upset when people smell your lack of imaginative creative spark!
Last edited by Gooch : 07-31-2019 at 01:39 AM. |
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07-31-2019, 02:51 AM | #384 |
Demi-God
Location: Sweden
Posts: 286
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That must be the great wall of text in China we’ve heard so much about.
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07-31-2019, 02:52 AM | #385 |
Demi-God
Location: Sweden
Posts: 286
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Magnificient.
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07-31-2019, 03:13 AM | #386 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Travelling between Ukraine and Russia
Posts: 5,305
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Creativity comes back when Auggie runs in and plays with some knobs.
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07-31-2019, 09:46 AM | #387 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: SP, Sao Paulo - Brazil
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07-31-2019, 11:07 AM | #388 |
Demi-God
Posts: 494
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I really felt what was lacking from the post-2000 SP output was definitely MIDI keyboards.
Another confirmation though that he's reverting to old work habits, so I have some hope the overall quality of the songs will be better. |
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07-31-2019, 11:39 AM | #389 |
Socialphobic
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at least "electronic percussion elements" gives hope that certain earlier posts didn't necessarily mean post-production washing out of jim chamb's drum recordings
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07-31-2019, 04:09 PM | #390 |
dumb
Location: $8.6 million embezzled funds
Posts: 11,358
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there's a guy called jimmy who i think knows a bit about drums
maybe get him to do something |
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