White Pony is a perfect record

[Eulogy]

Can’t believe it’s 20 years old.

That’s all.

[TuralyonW3]

Perfect d tones record = best 2/3 white pony plus best 1/3 of s/t

[FlamingGlobes]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

Can’t believe it’s 20 years old.

That’s all.

When I think about my life then vs. now it feels like way more than 20 years ago.

Album still holds up incredibly well. One of the few things I was actively listening to in 2000 that I still enjoy today. That, and Relationship of Command, Stankonia and Rated R.

[FoolofaTook]

ok

[Joey Goldberg]

this was pretty much my thought when listening to their livestream of it on the bday itself

that it's a perfect or at least near-perfect record, not the "ok" offered by the petty little man above

[MplsTaper]

10 Things You Didn't Know

1. The album was titled before any of its songs had even been written

For most recording artists, the album title is often the last thing they come up with before sending their new record off to the pressing plant. But with White Pony, Deftones had the title ready to go before they'd even begun working on the album; they felt a subtle, mysterious title would be a handy way to differentiate themselves from the nu-metal scene.

"The name started out as the graphic itself, the picture of a pony," Moreno explained to Slamm magazine in 2000. "I thought we should use it as propaganda to represent our individuality, to say, 'We are the white pony amongst all these other bands,' and we stuck with it."

But "individuality" isn't the only meaning the album name. "There's a lot of different references for White Pony," Moreno admitted. "One of them is a cocaine reference and there's a lot of stuff ... Have you ever heard stuff like in dream books that if you dream about a white pony then you're having a sexual dream? There's a lot of stuff that kinda goes around it."

2. The band seriously considered using a different producer than Terry Date

Though the band was generally pleased with Terry Date's production work on their first two studio albums, they initially thought of bringing in someone else to produce White Pony. "The main reason was we obviously wanted to expand the sound, and figured if we had a different producer, maybe someone who hasn't done anything heavy at all, it could be an interesting combination of the songs that we and the producer choose," Moreno told Launch in 2000.

Ultimately, though, the band agreed that Date was the right man for the job. "We had gone through the cycle of [talking to] all of these different producers and we were like, the change is going to come from the band, not from Terry Date," added bassist Chi Cheng. "We feel comfortable with Terry. He's like family now, we just love him, and he's the only person that could have gotten us through this album, motivated us, and pushed us through this album."

3. It took a while for the band to come up with material everyone was happy with, largely because of musical clashes between Chino Moreno and Stephen Carpenter

Going in to the writing for White Pony, Moreno already knew that he wanted to add a wider variety of musical flavors to Deftones' sonic palette, rather than stick to the predominantly heavy sounds that characterized the band's first two albums. This didn't go over too well at first with Carpenter, the band's lead guitarist, who wanted to make the record the heaviest thing they'd done to date.

"There were a lot of struggles," Moreno recalled to Metal Hammer in July 2000. "At one point Stephen put his foot down and said, 'I'm not going to write anything mellow, I just want to write heavy shit.' And I was like, 'Fine'. I didn't want him to do something he didn't want to. Eventually he started to enjoy playing the diverse, melodic, slower side of the songs I'd written, but before we found that meeting place, we were just battling — we were just arguing constantly. My argument wasn't so much about music. I wanted to do these songs my way, but I wanted it to be a more universal record rather than just straight and heavy ... I was like, 'Stephen, that's fine if you just want to listen Meshuggah, but that's not what we are about as a band.'"

4. "Change (in the House of Flies)" was the track that really set the direction for the rest of the album

Though it took some time for the writing sessions to really gel, the band finally found common ground on "Change (in the House of Flies)," the creepy, brooding song that would eventually become the album's first single. "When we wrote 'Change (In The House Of Flies),' that was one of those defining songs where we all wrote together," Moreno recalled to Alternative Press in August 2000. "It started out with Stephen and I playing guitar and Frank doing his keyboard thing over it. Right then, everybody joined in. Nobody told anybody else what to do, it all just came out freely. That's when it all started to come together."

5. Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon was an influence on the album

One of the things about White Pony that truly separated Deftones from the rest of the nu-metal pack was the atmospheric, multi-layered music of songs like "Change (in the House of Flies)," "Digital Bath" and "Knife Prty," which sounded even more intriguing and immersive once you listened to them on a pair of headphones. This, according to drummer Abe Cunningham, was absolutely intentional.

"The other day, someone told me that this record could be some kind of Dark Side of the Moon for the 2000s," Cunningham told Blitz around the time of the album's release. "Pink Floyd's influence pleases us so much. What we've done [is] to move back until the Seventies, when bands made that long records, almost like performances, then people put some headphones [on] and listened lots of strange noises and peculiar effects ... I think that this is a great record to listen with your headphones, you'll understand better the different textures involved on each track."

6. "Passenger" wasn't originally supposed to have Maynard James Keenan on vocals

Though White Pony features vocal cameos from actress/singer Rodleen Getsic (on "Knife Prty") and an uncredited Scott Weiland (on "RX Queen"), the guest appearance by Maynard James Keenan on "Passenger" was the biggest bonus for Deftones fans, who were thrilled to hear the Tool singer swapping vocals with Moreno. And yet, Moreno told Launch, "Having Maynard perform on the record wasn't something that we planned on doing. We didn't plan on having any guest on the record. But being a fan of Tool and A Perfect Circle, once Maynard was involved, it was just a magical thing for us."

"Everyone has their own account of what happened," added Cheng, "but Maynard and Chino were friends, and during the Ozzfest, Maynard asked us to come out to L.A. and just fool around with him. And we weren't going to pass up the opportunity to work with Maynard — he's an amazing artist ... Maynard's got a totally different work ethic than us — we're basically lazy drunks, and Maynard's a very stringent, tough cat. I think on the third day, we had already all the music written for 'Passenger,' but nothing vocally, and Maynard one day just grabbed the mic, and that was it. But we didn't want to have a guest star, we didn't want to have that token guest, like, 'Here's our celebrity, we're going to bring him in and he's going to give our album credibility.' Even when we went in to record the album, Chino tried to do different things, but the thing that kept coming up was Maynard's voice and his melodies. And so, I was like, 'Hey man, just call Maynard and ask him to be on the song.' He came in, was out in two days, and that was it."

7. The band's recording progress was often impeded by their addiction to Tony Hawk's Pro Skater video game

Along with the various creative challenges faced by the band during the making of White Pony, several Deftones members also had to grapple with a crippling addiction to playing Tony Hawk's Pro Skater video game, a pastime which often cut into their studio time. "Tony Hawk's Pro Skater, that shit held us up like a motherfucker," Moreno recalled to AP. "I swear to God, we would come into the studio in the daytime and play that thing until three in the morning. Terry had to come out of the studio every few hours to try to get us in there."

8. The band stayed at a haunted house while recording the album

The recording of White Pony was split between the Record Plant in Sausalito, California, and Larrabee Sound Studios in West Hollywood. While working at the latter studio, the band rented a house in the Hollywood Hills that was popular with visiting bands — and also, apparently, featured a supernatural resident or two.

"It was haunted and scary as hell," Moreno told Rocksound. "One morning I woke up and I saw something floating in the left-hand corner of the room. I was like 'Nah! That shit ain't fuckin' there,' so I shut my eyes. But when I looked again, I saw the same thing but it had moved a little bit. I couldn't tell what it was, but I could tell it was looking at me. I had this uncomfortable feeling, so I fuckin' stood and walked out of the room. I didn't really tell anyone about it until Abe told me a story about the same kinda shit. The guys from Orgy were staying at the house before us, and when they heard we'd stayed there, they were like, 'Did any crazy shit happened to you?' and they started telling us what they'd experienced." Thoroughly freaked, Moreno spent the rest of the recording sessions living at a hotel.

9. The band regretted letting their label ******* "Back to School (Mini Maggit)" on a reissued version of the album

White Pony's original 11-song track listing (which began with "Feiticeira" and ended with "Pink Maggit") flowed beautifully from start to finish, but the folks at Maverick Records, the band's label, made the unusual decision to reissue the record just a few months later with the rap-rockish "Back to School (Mini Maggit)" tacked on to the beginning of a new twelve-song version. According to the band, folks at the label saw dollar signs when they heard "Back to School," and insisted on adding the track to White Pony, even though it didn't really sound like anything else on the album.

"I remember the record had already been out for a while and had some radio play, but they wanted a second single and they didn't think there were any more on the record," Moreno recalled to Rocksound in 2010. "I said, 'Well, how do you know, because you haven't tried with any others?' I remember them sitting me down and pointing me out Papa Roach and Linkin Park had sold 6 million albums while we hadn't sold a 10th of that. To me, they were saying they wanted some rap-rock, and at the time I was already way over making music like that. But my response was 'no way' at first, and then they pointed out the chorus of 'Pink Maggit' was so great, so they asked me to rewrite it as a three-minute song. They kept hounding me about so I was like, 'Watch this.' Because formulaic songs are so easy to write."

Despite the artistic and commercial triumph of White Pony, Moreno told Revolver in 2012 that Maverick's decision to chase a hit with "Back to School" negatively colored the band's subsequent dealings with their label, and seriously messed with his mind. "I would always say to [Maverick], 'Do you guys remember that you signed us with a record called Adrenaline? That wasn't a pop record,'" Moreno recalled. "But after White Pony, the label became obsessed with the idea that we had to have at least two or three radio songs on our albums. And if they didn't hear it, they'd try to get us to work with outside writers. Now, that sucks for a lot of reasons, but one of the biggest is that it totally broke my confidence. It was bad enough that I was a drug addict and had a low self-esteem already. But now I kind of believed that I wasn't even good at making music anymore. It was a lame situation altogether."

10. "Back to School (Mini Maggit)" wasn't the only track to exclusively appear on a separate edition of the album

You can credit major-label marketing ploys for White Pony appearing in not one, not two, not three but four different cash-grabbing editions. These ******* the original non-limited-edition gray-cover version of the album without "Back to School" (widely considered to be the pure and definitive incarnation of the record), the white-cover version with "Back to School," as well as two limited-edition numbered copies, one with solid red and black jewel cases, and different booklet inserts. Both of these included a bonus cut, "The Boy's Republic," that many fans have never even heard. It remains one of the band's great, largely overlooked songs, and one rarely played live — though the group did once break it acoustically atop volcanic crags in Hawaii. Enjoy that performance below.

[Joey Goldberg]

[Disco King]

Chino Moreno shaving his soul patch and not having a bassist with dreadlocks would have gone a long way toward ending any unwanted associations with the nu-metal genre.

[Joey Goldberg]

Originally Posted by Disco King

not having a bassist with dreadlocks

i think you need to watch the above video, br0

[Raskolnikov]

It really is just such a damn, solid album. Heads and shoulders above anything else of that whole genre or anything close to it.

A few random thoughts after listening to it all the way through two weeks ago for the first time in farrrrr too long:

1. I got the limited edition red case version and that's the one I know best. And man, I'll be damned if putting ANYTHING after Pink Maggit is a cardinal sin. That song is an amazing closer. I reordered my iTunes tracklisting to put The Boy's Republic (not a bad song) before Maggit like the damn proud boomer I am.

2.) In the same vein, putting ANYTHING before Feiticeiera is a equally damnable sin. It's an AMAZING opener. The fact that the record label made them put the redone version of Back to School (mini) in front of it on the reissue is a sad Limp Bizkit inspired move.

3.) Never knew that the opening lyric of Feiticeiera was "fuck, I'm drunk". Never knew what he was saying, but I didn't think it was that.

4.) Back to School really isn't a bad song. I kinda like that thing. But I am glad I own it on a CD single (boooooooomer) and that's where it lives in my mind and memory bank. A standalone little thing.

5.) The drum tone on the opening of Digital Bath may just be the coolest drum tone ever recorded. It's like you're there, man.

6.) Passenger is such an awesome duet. I stumbled upon seeing it live with Maynard - was up in Vancouver in 2000 for the Summersault tour (to see SP primarily) but had gotten the aforementioned red White Pony a few months prior and knew Deftones would be solid too. Perfect Circle was on the bill but couldn't play for some reason - but since Maynard was there, he ended up playing just that one song with them. Was awesome. Interwebs report that has only happened twice, so that's p cool.

Did this thing get posted anywhere else? Such a great read:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...8jFRUUg12DVH1_

[buzzard]

I liked it as much as the next teenager when it came out, but even then would often pull songs like Elite or Street Carp from the playlist. The better examples have indeed proven surprisingly age-proof, but those trouble tracks are even more cringe now than before.

when you're ripe
you'll bleed out of control
you'll bleed out of contraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[cut to DJ furiously adjusting dials]

[Shallowed]

Have you ever heard stuff like in dream books that if you dream about a white pony then you're having a sexual dream?

[Joey Goldberg]

i used to think the Elite lyrics were "when you're right, you'll beat on your drum" & quite frankly, I prefer that

[FlamingGlobes]

Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

1. I got the limited edition red case version and that's the one I know best. And man, I'll be damned if putting ANYTHING after Pink Maggit is a cardinal sin. That song is an amazing closer. I reordered my iTunes tracklisting to put The Boy's Republic (not a bad song) before Maggit like the damn proud boomer I am.

4.) Back to School really isn't a bad song. I kinda like that thing. But I am glad I own it on a CD single (boooooooomer) and that's where it lives in my mind and memory bank. A standalone little thing.

[Joey Goldberg]

slapping Back to School on the front of White Pony was a lame record company move to end all record company moves, but that little EP was cool

[Disco King]

So, I got around to listening to White Pony due to its reception here, and the fact that people have been telling me for years that Deftones seem "up my alley."

Parts of it are a little too Linkin Park for my liking, but it always remains layered enough that I wouldn't put the two bands in the same category of artistic merit. There are some really good moments in there that almost resemble contemporary heavy shoegaze bands like Nothing, though I find the clean vocals a lot better than the very nu-metallic screams. Overall, I'm mixed on it, but fuck me if "Pink Maggit" isn't a killer track.

[Disco King]

Also, thanks thread for explaining "Back to School" to me.

Only having heard the version of the album that opens with it and not having that context, it really lowered my expectations for the rest of the album, and by the end of it, I was like, "wait, they actually made a good reprise/slight return/whatever to that Linkin Bizkit opener?"

[Alice]

I tried to listen to this album a few months ago and turned it off almost immediately because of Back to School. I tried it again today without that song because of this thread and it went much better

[Skradgee]

IDK about “perfect” but it was an ear changer, for sure

[Skradgee]

Knife Prty and Passenger RULE!
They RULE! Yeah.

[MplsTaper]

Deftones est. 1988 (it was a t-shirt design). Adrenaline released October '95, Around the Fur October '97 and White Pony June 2000.

Linkin Park est. March 1999 when Chester joined. Debut album released October 2000.

Nothing against Linkin Park but I never got into the music and had to look those dates up. For Deftones I had to double check the what months albums were released because I'm not going to retain that.

Edit: You know after thinking about it for a minute I now realize DK may have been saying parts of it are a little too nu metal (Linkin Park) for my liking? Anyways, have a nice day everyone.

post script - I'm a terrible fan and haven't listened to White Pony in forever. Haven't listened to much post the self-titled album and the B-Sides & Rarities album.

[Joey Goldberg]

Originally Posted by MplsTaper

Haven't listened to much post the self-titled album and the B-Sides & Rarities album.

woah, what? you mean like ever or just in a while? they made a whole lot of their best stuff after s/t

[MplsTaper]

Originally Posted by Joey Goldberg

woah, what? you mean like ever or just in a while? they made a whole lot of their best stuff after s/t

Oh I have and I do agree with you. I'm just more familiar with the first 4 albums.

If you were going to make a mix of the last 4 albums what would it look like? I would sincerely like to revisit that material.

[Joey Goldberg]

depends on how choosy i'd have to be - picking my favorite 4 or 5 tracks from each album would probably be pretty easy, 2 or 3 tho, that might be a tough one

[MplsTaper]

Originally Posted by Joey Goldberg

depends on how choosy i'd have to be - picking my favorite 4 or 5 tracks from each album would probably be pretty easy, 2 or 3 tho, that might be a tough one

What are your favorite 4 tracks from the last 4 albums?

[Eulogy]

Just listen to Koi No Yokan and Diamond Eyes in full. I love Gore but not everyone does. SNW has bright spots but is their weakest I think. Opener Hole in the Earth is great though. And sex tape.

[Joey Goldberg]

Originally Posted by MplsTaper

What are your favorite 4 tracks from the last 4 albums?

Saturday Night Wrist:
Hole in the Earth
Beware
Combat
Kimdracula

honorable mention: Cherry Waves


Diamond Eyes:
Diamond Eyes
CMND/CNTRL
Beauty School
Sextape

honorable mention: Have You Seen the Butcher


Koi No Yokan:
Leathers
Entombed
Rosemary
Goon Squad

honorable mention: Swerve City


Gore:
Prayers/Triangles
Gore
Phantom Bride
Rubicon


honorable mention: Hearts/Wires

[FlamingGlobes]

Diamond Eyes is a perfect album. 976-Evil, Sextape, Risk, You've Seen The Butcher, Rocket Skates... shit now I know what I'll be listening to tonight.

[Joey Goldberg]

yeah there really aren't any skippers on that one

koi either, really, but there are a few tracks i still can't quite distinguish based on name alone

[FlamingGlobes]

Yeah, Koi is a little samey to me. I like it, but not a lot of standouts. The only track on Diamond Eyes I am remotely "meh" on is CMND/CNTRL (sorry). All the other songs I am always more than happy to hear when they come up in a shuffle or playlist.