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Old 11-29-2020, 09:31 AM   #1
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No Cotillians
No Shiny
Silvery standalone single
No Cyr
All energy put into 33 song 'rock opera' which would probbaly spawn at least a couple of singles with the sound that fairweather/ex fans would expect.

Could be out by now and the band may have been at least slightly back into the hearts and minds of the general public.

What we have now is over 40 shitty songs released in a couple of years, most of which alienate both fans and potential returning fans, a band that's going to be completely demoralised with their second consecutive album not making the top 50 and the potential that all future projects will be canned.

I think they well snd truly fucked the comeback plans.

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 09:42 AM   #2
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the main problem with this is that it seems like billy and jimmy in particular genuinely seem to believe in the new music. i don't think billy would be releasing this stuff if he didn't think it had value.

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 09:48 AM   #3
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the main problem with this is that it seems like billy and jimmy in particular genuinely seem to believe in the new music. i don't think billy would be releasing this stuff if he didn't think it had value.
Also, he's surrounded by yes people. Decent management (if there is still such a thing) would have said words to the effect of 'fuck this. Not gonna work, CRØGĂN'

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 10:14 AM   #4
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He could put out whatever he wanted as Billy Corgan; in fact, Ogilala got good reviews.

But they messed up the Shiny 1 album for sure. Linking it to a big tour, using Rick Rubin, the fall out from no D'Arcy, all added up to mess it up for sure.

I think I said it at the time, but they should've rehearsed up a short set that D'Arcy could play, then go out and do some small clubs to relaunch the band. Just the four of them, in normal clothes, no theatrics. Would've gotten great press and there would've been lines of people on the street outside the venues - great PR! Like the way the Stone Roses did it with the gig in Warrington.

THEN go record the album.

THEN do a big arena tour. All the kinks would've been worked out, D'arcy would get her road-legs back (or realise that she didn't want to do it after all and Jack Bates replaces her), consumer appetite would've been wheted from the good press of the club shows. Job done.

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 11:53 AM   #5
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"rock opera" is just billy babble.
remember when he said adore was going to be XXXXX
and then machina was going to be XXXXX

Ogilala might as well be the result of planned "rock opera".

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 12:13 PM   #6
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He could put out whatever he wanted as Billy Corgan; in fact, Ogilala got good reviews.

But they messed up the Shiny 1 album for sure. Linking it to a big tour, using Rick Rubin, the fall out from no D'Arcy, all added up to mess it up for sure.

I think I said it at the time, but they should've rehearsed up a short set that D'Arcy could play, then go out and do some small clubs to relaunch the band. Just the four of them, in normal clothes, no theatrics. Would've gotten great press and there would've been lines of people on the street outside the venues - great PR! Like the way the Stone Roses did it with the gig in Warrington.

THEN go record the album.

THEN do a big arena tour. All the kinks would've been worked out, D'arcy would get her road-legs back (or realise that she didn't want to do it after all and Jack Bates replaces her), consumer appetite would've been wheted from the good press of the club shows. Job done.
90 minute shows, varied 90 minute setlists, a few more short rock songs and epics, al a arising. Two shows a week so Billy could scream and not fuck his voice. Blamo.

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 12:13 PM   #7
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"rock opera" is just billy babble.
remember when he said adore was going to be XXXXX
and then machina was going to be XXXXX

Ogilala might as well be the result of planned "rock opera".
Definitely needs inverted commas

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 12:45 PM   #8
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If Billy had any brains he would’ve:

- Release Zeitgeist as a solo album, hyping up similarities to SP and Jimmy and etc. Present the band as a throwback 60s style psychedelic rock band. Release Superchrist and GLOW and Gossamer, etc. Play SP tracks live.
- Say he started a new band: The Celestials or some shit. Release Teargarden tracks as a teaser to a new album for months. Surprise drop Oceania. Tour, leaning heavily into the prog vibe.
- Disband “The Celestials”. Let the rumor mill circulate that he’s getting the band back together but don’t release anything until Iha and Jimmy are back. Release Silvery Sometimes as the lead single. Release Shiny, adding One and All and Tiberius (with Iha and Jimmy performing on it). Do club shows to drum hype and then go on the big Shiny stadium tour.
- Keep doing your solo shit, releasing Cyr as a solo album too.
- Release the redo of Machina, and announce the big mega follow up Machina Pt 3/ MCIS Pt 2 at the same time.

Get off Instagram and interviews and Alex Jones etc. Separate the man from “Billy”.

Bam. 90s hype levels are back. Would Z, Oceania and Cyr have sold well? Nope. Would the solo/Celestials tours have sold well? Nope. But the Shiny tour and the albums would’ve sold an insane amount of tickets/albums and he’d be back on top of the world again.

Corgan has no idea how to market himself or his band because he’s surrounded by sycophants. He’s literally misstepped every single step of the way.

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 01:08 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ninsp View Post
If Billy had any brains he would’ve:

- Release Zeitgeist as a solo album, hyping up similarities to SP and Jimmy and etc. Present the band as a throwback 60s style psychedelic rock band. Release Superchrist and GLOW and Gossamer, etc. Play SP tracks live.
- Say he started a new band: The Celestials or some shit. Release Teargarden tracks as a teaser to a new album for months. Surprise drop Oceania. Tour, leaning heavily into the prog vibe.
- Disband “The Celestials”. Let the rumor mill circulate that he’s getting the band back together but don’t release anything until Iha and Jimmy are back. Release Silvery Sometimes as the lead single. Release Shiny, adding One and All and Tiberius (with Iha and Jimmy performing on it). Do club shows to drum hype and then go on the big Shiny stadium tour.
- Keep doing your solo shit, releasing Cyr as a solo album too.
- Release the redo of Machina, and announce the big mega follow up Machina Pt 3/ MCIS Pt 2 at the same time.

Get off Instagram and interviews and Alex Jones etc. Separate the man from “Billy”.

Bam. 90s hype levels are back. Would Z, Oceania and Cyr have sold well? Nope. Would the solo/Celestials tours have sold well? Nope. But the Shiny tour and the albums would’ve sold an insane amount of tickets/albums and he’d be back on top of the world again.

Corgan has no idea how to market himself or his band because he’s surrounded by sycophants. He’s literally misstepped every single step of the way.
Fuck Oceania, Fuck Shiny, Fuck Cyr.

Zeitgeist is a killer album; if the production was lusher with vocals down, Big Muffs instead of thin, digital distortion and acoustic For God and Country, it would be phenomanal.

People don't seem to understand that the reason they don't like it is the production. I dig it for what it is, an awkward, angular sounding album. I'm all over the 'let me be every moment I ever misunderstood' moment in USA., then again I love the ridiculousness of Rock On. Most people don't, so get rid of it for something more conventional.

Perhaps add Gossamer and Stellar and it would be the massive comeback album.

Different production and two more A* SP songs and I think people would be all over it.

Improved Zeitgeist with big tour, Catchy single - Silvery would do - (maybe EP), 33 song 'rock opera', there we have it. And if this happened, it could have by 2014.

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 01:15 PM   #10
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He promised to fix the Zeitgeist production when he announced the reissues a decade ago.

I assume this is why it's not up on streaming services.

Whether we get MCIS Pt 3, Shiny pt 3, Zwan Box Set first is a mystery I guess.

I think a polished up live show would do a better service to the Zeitgeist tracks, as his vocal performances were better.

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 01:18 PM   #11
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Great Zeitgeist truthism.

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 01:45 PM   #12
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Great Zeitgeist truthism.
Maybe even best 12 songs from Ogilala and Cotillions to appease fans between band projects.

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 02:23 PM   #13
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I don’t mind him putting whatever he wants out, and under whatever name he wants to attach to it. It’s all so hyper homogenized.

But I also haven’t really liked a single thing since Zeitgeist.

Mellon Collie Part II is going to be such a train wreck. Mostly because of his trash vocals.

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 02:28 PM   #14
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I don’t mind him putting whatever he wants out, and under whatever name he wants to attach to it. It’s all so hyper homogenized.

But I also haven’t really liked a single thing since Zeitgeist.

Mellon Collie Part II is going to be such a train wreck. Mostly because of his trash vocals.
Can you imagine Bodies with spoken word vocals instead of screams (In my mind I'm everyone of you shiny tour - one of the best moments im SP history delivered with zero conviction or emotion) or In the Arms of sleep with dropped consonants and emotionless, dry, upfront, speaking level delivery? Fml.

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 03:05 PM   #15
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look at all of the professional managers in here.

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 03:14 PM   #16
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look at all of the professional managers in here.
You don't have to be a professional manager to remedy the worst career trajectory in musical history.

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 03:23 PM   #17
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You don't have to be a professional manager to remedy the worst career trajectory in musical history.
Whatever helps you sleep at night.

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 03:30 PM   #18
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Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Zlopiclone

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 03:49 PM   #19
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i hate these threads because every post is so much better than real life

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 03:56 PM   #20
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I can’t get into these hypotheticals. The fact is we got what we got and he’s still about to screw up the Machina reissue

Last edited by houseofglass11 : 11-29-2020 at 04:05 PM.

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 04:00 PM   #21
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I can’t get into these hypotheticals. The fact is we got what we got and he’s still about the screw up the Machina reissue
All we have is hypotheticals or disappointment. I'd rather go with the former.

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 04:49 PM   #22
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What does any of this have to do with My Vitriol

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 04:51 PM   #23
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Oceania is different, but good at least tracks 1 - 9.. all it needs is better drumming

Everything since Oceania has ranged from boring to bad.

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 04:54 PM   #24
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What does any of this have to do with My Vitriol
at least som, for all the other corgan-like characteristics, doesn't seem to be a shitty horrible person

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 05:23 PM   #25
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What does any of this have to do with My Vitriol
I was friends with Som. He's a cunt

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 07:16 PM   #26
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the idea that some things just need to be moved around, and not that the whole reuniting the smashing pumpkins venture was a bad idea from the start. i always loved the optimism of that.

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 08:49 PM   #27
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at least som, for all the other corgan-like characteristics, doesn't seem to be a shitty horrible person
He's actually very similar, really into terrible conspiracy theories and Brexit, has also made repeated awful career moves... signs are not good to avoid him being a terrible person

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 09:10 PM   #28
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He's actually very similar, really into terrible conspiracy theories and Brexit, has also made repeated awful career moves... signs are not good to avoid him being a terrible person
Even worse, when I was at his place, he got his guitar out and said 'if someone can play this, this is how I determine if they're a good guitar player' and played the god awful riff from plug in baby. It was a challenge; he passed me the guitar and I played Master of Puppets. He's so fucking arrogant.

I bumped into him at an Amusement Parks on Fire gig and he said 'I invented this sound'. I said to him 'yeah, but Out of the Angeles is a damn site better than anything you've put out'. That was after I'd decided he's a cunt.

He then, like Billy became a Coldplay fan - when they went all poppy and said something about how clever the four to the floor beat in one of their shitty, nursery rhyme songs was.

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 09:21 PM   #29
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yeah the hypotheticals are nice & all but at the end of the day, at least from '08 onward, Bill has clearly gotten off on utterly confounding & disappointing fans in equal measure. so the most important thing at the core of this has nothing to do with what he releases under which names so much as the core engine of at all that is William Patrick Corrigan

btw this pretty much started with him putting Adore out as an SP album versus just a solo debut, so you might as well start from there when coming up with parallel universe Pumpkinries

 
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Old 11-29-2020, 09:34 PM   #30
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You don’t need to be a professional manager to see that there’s been some truly confounding decisions made by the Bald Lord over the past 13 years.

 
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